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  1. #226
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Possibly erasing Superman from their superhero movieverse. I canít believe itís gotten to this point.
    I think it says a lot about the staying power of Superman that it hadn't happened sooner. How many years has it been that DC itself has viewed the character as a lost cause? How many decades? It's a miracle that Superman hasn't fallen into utter obscurity, given the way DC has treated the character.

    From what we're hearing though, it sounds like this new guy isn't stupid enough to think Superman is a lost cause. Which should have been obvious to anyone. Easy enough to compare box office returns with overall brand revenue, and recognize that people still love Superman, they just think WB's movies are shit.

    It's a simple calculus.

    The real question remains; is the new guy smart enough to hire the right creative people? Simple to say that you're gonna revitalize the character. Anyone can say that. Understanding how to actually do that is another matter entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Corporate exec thinking of everything in cold hard dollars and asking "why can't we just make it good?"

    Well, in such turbulent times, I guess something had to be consistent.
    Well, "why can't they just make it good?" is exactly what we say here, most days.

    I don't expect a corporate suit to think in any way other than cold hard dollars. Income statements and spreadsheets and GAAP....that's how they work, and I say leave them to it. Hire the right people to write, act, direct, etc., ensure they stay within budget and deadline, and otherwise stay the f*ck out of the way. If the new people in charge are any smarter than the last group, we'll find out when our asses are parked in theater seats.

    Well, *I* will find out when you folks tell me. I stopped giving my money to WB's film division and won't give them another cent until I know it's worthwhile.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  2. #227
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    When it comes to Zaslov I’m still waiting to see if the Flash gets major reshoots because the way he’s been so far, and how he’s described acting behind the scenes, I can’t see him being on board for the current plan of ejecting Supes from the main universe. But currently that’s still the way Flash is set to end.
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  3. #228
    Denizen of Earth-One Kirk Brent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I think it says a lot about the staying power of Superman that it hadn't happened sooner. How many years has it been that DC itself has viewed the character as a lost cause? How many decades? It's a miracle that Superman hasn't fallen into utter obscurity, given the way DC has treated the character.

    From what we're hearing though, it sounds like this new guy isn't stupid enough to think Superman is a lost cause. Which should have been obvious to anyone. Easy enough to compare box office returns with overall brand revenue, and recognize that people still love Superman, they just think WB's movies are shit.

    It's a simple calculus.

    The real question remains; is the new guy smart enough to hire the right creative people? Simple to say that you're gonna revitalize the character. Anyone can say that. Understanding how to actually do that is another matter entirely.



    Well, "why can't they just make it good?" is exactly what we say here, most days.

    I don't expect a corporate suit to think in any way other than cold hard dollars. Income statements and spreadsheets and GAAP....that's how they work, and I say leave them to it. Hire the right people to write, act, direct, etc., ensure they stay within budget and deadline, and otherwise stay the f*ck out of the way. If the new people in charge are any smarter than the last group, we'll find out when our asses are parked in theater seats.

    Well, *I* will find out when you folks tell me. I stopped giving my money to WB's film division and won't give them another cent until I know it's worthwhile.
    I did the same after Man of Steel. I haven't supported a DC film project with my money since the first and only time I saw that film.

    You're absolutely right about Superman's treatment by WB. A lot of people think the Donner/Reeve films are proof that the company loved or understood the character, but the truth is, WB didn't even own the film rights. The Salkinds thankfully wanted to do the character justice and brought Donner aboard. WB has never seemed to like or understand Superman, at least not since the 50s.

    I have a feeling whatever WBDiscovery is going to do, it's going to be a deconstruction in a different direction than Snyder's. Not as dark but still not Superman. I hope I'm wrong but every passing day convinces me that no corporation really understands the purity and fun of a character like Superman. It may be that the character will go into limbo until the 100th anniversary in sixteen years, which might not be a bad thing.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Brent View Post
    I did the same after Man of Steel. I haven't supported a DC film project with my money since the first and only time I saw that film.

    You're absolutely right about Superman's treatment by WB. A lot of people think the Donner/Reeve films are proof that the company loved or understood the character, but the truth is, WB didn't even own the film rights. The Salkinds thankfully wanted to do the character justice and brought Donner aboard. WB has never seemed to like or understand Superman, at least not since the 50s.

    I have a feeling whatever WBDiscovery is going to do, it's going to be a deconstruction in a different direction than Snyder's. Not as dark but still not Superman. I hope I'm wrong but every passing day convinces me that no corporation really understands the purity and fun of a character like Superman. It may be that the character will go into limbo until the 100th anniversary in sixteen years, which might not be a bad thing.
    Ehhh, even then, the Salkinds wanted it to be a lot campier than it was. It was Donner himself who pushed to do justice to him and give him the sincerity and grandeur he deserves. That's why once Donner was canned, the series devolved from the SII reshoots on and into the entirety of SIII.

  5. #230
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    As I understand it, WB didn't make any DC films until....Green Lantern? All the others were made by other studios under Warners' umbrella, but WB itself was little more than a producer on the projects. Or something along those lines anyway.

    I have no idea what they'll do now. Serious and brooding didn't work, though I still maintain that MoS will be viewed favorably by history.

    At a guess? The new folks will look at the successes; Aquaman, Shazam, Peacemaker, Wonder Woman 1, and try to deconstruct what made those work and then apply it going forward. So perhaps a slightly darker version of the basic bitch MCU formula? We truly won't know until stuff is being made, it's all conjecture until then.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  6. #231
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titansupes View Post
    Ehhh, even then, the Salkinds wanted it to be a lot campier than it was. It was Donner himself who pushed to do justice to him and give him the sincerity and grandeur he deserves. That's why once Donner was canned, the series devolved from the SII reshoots on and into the entirety of SIII.
    A large part of the reason Donner was so intent on doing right by Superman is that while Donner was a veteran TV director, Superman was his second major feature overall and he knew that if he screwed up Superman that it could be it for a career directing films. He was a hungry director who was given a big opportunity and decided to swing for the fences and do the best Superman film he could make. Fourty four years later no one has managed to surpass it.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  7. #232
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    As I understand it, WB didn't make any DC films until....Green Lantern? All the others were made by other studios under Warners' umbrella, but WB itself was little more than a producer on the projects. Or something along those lines anyway.

    I have no idea what they'll do now. Serious and brooding didn't work, though I still maintain that MoS will be viewed favorably by history.

    At a guess? The new folks will look at the successes; Aquaman, Shazam, Peacemaker, Wonder Woman 1, and try to deconstruct what made those work and then apply it going forward. So perhaps a slightly darker version of the basic bitch MCU formula? We truly won't know until stuff is being made, it's all conjecture until then.
    The Batman films all the way back to 1989 have definitely been Warners Productions. Yeah other producers came to pitch ideas and such but they definitely played a much bigger role in those films than they did with the Superman films pre 2006, which were made more or less independently by the Salkinds (and Canon films for IV) and distributed by Warners.

    The fact is Warners first Superman film was officially Returns and then Man of Steel.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  8. #233
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    My concern is that we're going to end up with an Ike Perlemutter situation where he's such a penny pincher that he won't invest in a decent movie and want to cut corners everywhere.
    #RestoretheDonnerverse

  9. #234
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    My concern is that we're going to end up with an Ike Perlemutter situation where he's such a penny pincher that he won't invest in a decent movie and want to cut corners everywhere.
    I always assume this and hope for the best.


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  10. #235
    Ultimate Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    When it comes to Zaslov I’m still waiting to see if the Flash gets major reshoots because the way he’s been so far, and how he’s described acting behind the scenes, I can’t see him being on board for the current plan of ejecting Supes from the main universe. But currently that’s still the way Flash is set to end.
    But reshoots would cost more money. Something that Zaslov is seemingly trying to avoid.

  11. #236
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    My concern is that we're going to end up with an Ike Perlemutter situation where he's such a penny pincher that he won't invest in a decent movie and want to cut corners everywhere.
    He does seem to be an Ike in terms of controlling the purse strings. Given how terrible the current plans for Supes seem to be I don’t mind him tossing them out and starting over, nor do I really have an issue with a Superman film being on the same budget as say Shazam or Aquaman. Just don’t get ridiculous like how Snyder did, we don’t need to see 9/11 re-enacted every time Superman fights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    But reshoots would cost more money. Something that Zaslov is seemingly trying to avoid.
    I’m not holding my breath or anything but letting the Flash end as it does now means that there’s no Superman in the main universe going forward. Reshooting some stuff now may save/make more money in the long run. Wait and see I guess, I just hope he doesn’t cancel MAWS.
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  12. #237
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    He does seem to be an Ike in terms of controlling the purse strings. Given how terrible the current plans for Supes seem to be I don’t mind him tossing them out and starting over, nor do I really have an issue with a Superman film being on the same budget as say Shazam or Aquaman. Just don’t get ridiculous like how Snyder did, we don’t need to see 9/11 re-enacted every time Superman fights.

    I’m not holding my breath or anything but letting the Flash end as it does now means that there’s no Superman in the main universe going forward. Reshooting some stuff now may save/make more money in the long run. Wait and see I guess, I just hope he doesn’t cancel MAWS.


    This right here.
    May we never forget:

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  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I’m not holding my breath or anything but letting the Flash end as it does now means that there’s no Superman in the main universe going forward. Reshooting some stuff now may save/make more money in the long run. Wait and see I guess, I just hope he doesn’t cancel MAWS.
    We already have jettisoned Batffleck, Cavill hasn't had a solo in a decade, and this Flash has issues based on the star's off-screen life. I think it's just as easy to let the movie end however it wants and to introduce a new Superman alongside the current Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Shazam in some new DCEU universe where we just ignore everything Snyder directed. Not bashing Snyder or his take necessarily just saying that if you ignore MOS->JLA it gives a clean slate for a new take on the JLA without a total reboot.

  14. #239
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    We already have jettisoned Batffleck, Cavill hasn't had a solo in a decade, and this Flash has issues based on the star's off-screen life. I think it's just as easy to let the movie end however it wants and to introduce a new Superman alongside the current Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Shazam in some new DCEU universe where we just ignore everything Snyder directed. Not bashing Snyder or his take necessarily just saying that if you ignore MOS->JLA it gives a clean slate for a new take on the JLA without a total reboot.
    Amusingly despite this movie being conceived as a way to replace Batffleck, he’s actually leaving the door open to return while it’s Cavill who is getting shoved out the exit. I have no problem with that, it’s that the ending doesn’t simply recast Cavill with Routh or someone else so there can be a Superman in the main DCU that I take issue with. I don’t know why WB believes that they can’t recast Supes in the main universe the way they’re doing Bats, maybe they’ve promised Abrams he can have the character exclusively? God I hope not, can’t think of two creators I trust less to do right by the character.

    Zaslov seemingly wanting to refocus on the main universe may be the only shot of Superman still playing a role in the shared universe going forward. By all means kick Cavill out, it’s no great loss to let him go, but I can’t get on board with their current plans for the character.
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  15. #240
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Amusingly despite this movie being conceived as a way to replace Batffleck, he’s actually leaving the door open to return while it’s Cavill who is getting shoved out the exit. I have no problem with that, it’s that the ending doesn’t simply recast Cavill with Routh or someone else so there can be a Superman in the main DCU that I take issue with. I don’t know why WB believes that they can’t recast Supes in the main universe the way they’re doing Bats, maybe they’ve promised Abrams he can have the character exclusively? God I hope not, can’t think of two creators I trust less to do right by the character.

    Zaslov seemingly wanting to refocus on the main universe may be the only shot of Superman still playing a role in the shared universe going forward. By all means kick Cavill out, it’s no great loss to let him go, but I can’t get on board with their current plans for the character.
    Given Zaslov wants to revitalize Superman, I have faith he won’t get erased from the universe going forward. And if Cavill is truly getting the boot is it really difficult to bring in Brandon Routh like you suggested? He isn’t too older than Cavill (42 compared to Cavills 39), plus erasing Superman and giving all his stories to Supergirl is just setting up the girl that’s playing her to be despised.
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