Discovery Wants To Revitalize Superman

[Vakanai]

I think Zaslav has to come out soon (post ComicCon) with news about films. To demonstrate he is shaking things up. Initially it'll be news about Aquaman 3, BA2, Shazam3 and maybe a few surprises. He'll likely wait until after BA comes out in fall before making decisions on Superman. If BA is huge they may go forward with making BA the center of the film universe. Pushing Superman projects to TV/HBO.

Eh, maybe a couple film announcements, but I don't expect much this year. Next year tho? Yeah, I think that's when we get more hit with the shakeups.

[JAK]

I always preferred the cape clips/clasps, like his suit had in Supergirl. The tucked into the collar look always seemed more unpolished and uncomfortable to me (hate having things around my neck). But that's not a popular opinion here.

It's all in the implementation. I'm not a fan of the clips, but I do agree that, on some level, it frames better than what they do now - and it's the suit neckline (which also screws up the muscle suit, imo). Personally, my own suit's cape and neckline are still my preference.

11755188_1012815502086163_8909122480244309578_n.jpg36546360_416424628838647_8625219517863165952_n.jpg

Interestingly while Superman has struggled on the big screen for decades from the 90s development hell to SR then MOS and BvS, it has soared on TV from the Superboy series to L&C to Smallville and Superrman and Lois. Different creative teams or is it something about TV. Zaslav is sharp and he'll certainly see this. Maybe a reason to focus on TV/HBO for Superman? Maybe several smaller scale Superman films on HBO? Routh rcently gave a interview saying it's possible. Something he wouldn't have thought a while ago. How about a Golden Age Routh HBO series?

Agreed! That's what I'd do - release HBO Max-exclusive movies with the S&L group, maybe with a small "one night only screening" in select theaters. There's no real reason they need to spend a crapton of money, imo.

As for Routh - YES! Maybe not Golden Age, as I don't think he fits that well, but certainly a Reeve-esque HBO thing.

[Jeffrey2]

Katy bar the door after BA comes out in October. I'm looking for big announcements late this year. For sure an official break with Cavill. That breakup has been going on for 3 or more years and from a public relations perspective it hurts both WB and Cavill. When the now deflated rumors came out a month ago about WB, Zaslav and Cavill I received a lot of tweets to the effect - please, not this sh*t again. Cavill is returning, no he is not but maybe he is then no he is not. I know fans who were kinda OK with Cavill returning at one point but his fan dance with the role has worn many of those folks out and they now don't want him to return.

[Jeffrey2]

It's all in the implementation. I'm not a fan of the clips, but I do agree that, on some level, it frames better than what they do now - and it's the suit neckline (which also screws up the muscle suit, imo). Personally, my own suit's cape and neckline are still my preference.

11755188_1012815502086163_8909122480244309578_n.jpg36546360_416424628838647_8625219517863165952_n.jpg



Agreed! That's what I'd do - release HBO Max-exclusive movies with the S&L group, maybe with a small "one night only screening" in select theaters. There's no real reason they need to spend a crapton of money, imo.

As for Routh - YES! Maybe not Golden Age, as I don't think he fits that well, but certainly a Reeve-esque HBO thing.

Agree that the cape/suit interface is off and makes the upper torso look off at times. The suit is too loose in the waist and the belt too small and that makes the torso look off (too extended).

Your suit from the avatar looks much better as far as the cape/collar interface goes. Like the larger 'S'. Google Gerard Christopher and Superboy. Best cape of any suit bar none. Your suit looks a lot like his which was much better than that of Routh or Cavill or Hoechlin. Even Reeve. The showrunners took the Reeve suit and improved on it. Best Superman suit ever - briefs notwithstanding. JUst uploadeda GC avatar. Look at that cape!

[Vordan]

I agree Zaslav didn't mention Cavill but as the original story got twisted with some reports saying he liked Cavill. Campea pretty much debunked the hype the original stroy grew into.

Whether WB with Zaslav retcons Supes out the DC film universe remains to be seen. But the previous suits were going to do that and why? It's all about money. Zaslav is laser focused on the bottom line and he'll have access to the books and how well DC superhero films have performed in general and against each other. If he does more Superman its probably going to be the Abrams project rather than a tradition DCEU Superman film - Cavill or not.

You’re contradicting yourself, if Zaslav is focused on the bottom line that means playing it safe. Abrams/Coates project is the opposite of playing it safe. Additionally Zaslav apparently wants to copy the MCU, and pivot back to the shared universe, so he wants the opposite of what you think he does.

[JAK]

Katy bar the door after BA comes out in October. I'm looking for big announcements late this year. For sure an official break with Cavill. That breakup has been going on for 3 or more years and from a public relations perspective it hurts both WB and Cavill. When the now deflated rumors came out a month ago about WB, Zaslav and Cavill I received a lot of tweets to the effect - please, not this sh*t again. Cavill is returning, no he is not but maybe he is then no he is not. I know fans who were kinda OK with Cavill returning at one point but his fan dance with the role has worn many of those folks out and they now don't want him to return.

I'd like to see Cavill get another chance, but I agree: they need to "sh*t or get off the pot" here, lol.

Agree that the cape/suit interface is off and makes the upper torso look off at times. The suit is too loose in the waist and the belt too small and that makes the torso look off (too extended).

Definitely. It's just a weird fit.

Your suit from the avatar looks much better as far as the cape/collar interface goes. Like the larger 'S'. Google Gerard Christopher and Superboy. Best cape of any suit bar none. Your suit looks a lot like his which was much better than that of Routh or Cavill or Hoechlin. Even Reeve. The showrunners took the Reeve suit and improved on it. Best Superman suit ever - briefs notwithstanding.

Thank you! Believe it or not, my mother and grandmother made it for me in 1995. (I was 15 then - those pics I attached are from just a few years ago, so it's held up pretty well! lol) The S is literally a Dan Jurgens emblem (from Superman #78's cover) and the suit was made to match that (which is why the cape is square so it can lay the same way as the 90's comics). And you're right; it does look a lot like Gerard's! I also agree that his may be the best live action suit we've had, overall. A mix of that and Routh's KC suit could be incredible, imo. At some point, when I have a new suit made, I want to keep to the 90's design but bring in some of those elements to really make it timeless.

[Jeffrey2]

You’re contradicting yourself, if Zaslav is focused on the bottom line that means playing it safe. Abrams/Coates project is the opposite of playing it safe. Additionally Zaslav apparently wants to copy the MCU, and pivot back to the shared universe, so he wants the opposite of what you think he does.

Not really. I don't think they'll make the Abrams film because it's not likely to be a big BO draw. I think they will pass on a traditional Superman reboot as well because of doubts about its economic viability.

[DABellWrites]

Not really. I don't think they'll make the Abrams film because it's not likely to be a big BO draw. I think they will pass on a traditional Superman reboot as well because of doubts about its economic viability.

You're saying Superman won't succeed at the BO?

[Jeffrey2]

You're saying Superman won't succeed at the BO?

I'm saying that in terms of ROI Superman has not done well compared to the other DC films. Joker made over a billion on a relatively small budget. Shazam was greenlighted almost immediately for a sequel as its ROI was much better than that of MOS. Even if it brought in much less than MOS. The key was the much smaller budget of Shazam compared to MOS.

Can Superman be successful at the box office? Yes. The two first Reeve films were. But, to do that WB needs a great script, director and actor. It's hard to bring those together. Cavill is too divisive with fans so he is a non-starter but finding a great Supes actor is elusive. Directors too. Many good directors don't want to touch Superman. The Shazam director said he would not do Superman because of all the complications. It's a heavy lift and I don't see WB going there especially given that they have a lot of hot franchises right now. Better put out an Aquaman or BA or Batman or WW film every two/three years than chase after that perfect Superman film. I think Zaslav means to focus on these core characters who have been underutilized. Aquaman 2 will come out almost 5 years after the first film. Too long. Batman even longer between films which was a big mistake.

Bottom line WB was or maybe still is going to retcon Superman out of the DCEU and replace him with Supergirl which indicates they don't feel he is a big enough draw to be part of their film universe even in cameos. On top of which they were/are going to create a new "superman" with the Abrams project. Really a totally new IP which presumably would, if successful, be brought into the DCEU as a new franchise. Talk about absolutely no confidence in Superman as a franchise. No other way to look at it. At least Superman will remain part of the DC TV universe which fans should be grateful for.

People joke that Superman is the Hulk of the DC film universe but it's even worse. Hulk gets some airtime in the Marvel cinematic universe while Superman may end up getting none in the DCEU.

[Vordan]

My guess is they’re going to go with the original plan. Waaaaay back when we first got news that Cavill was “out”, there were rumors that WB wanted to do a Supergirl movie, set in the 70s featuring her fighting Brainiac, and they would cast a new Superman for that. Well they’ve got a Supergirl movie coming, set in the DCEU, and supposedly she’ll be up against Brainiac. Assuming they actually do want a Superman in the DCEU, he’ll likely show up there first, and my guess is they’ll cast a new guy as Sasha’s cousin and use the Flash to justify why it’s not Cavill. Then he’ll go fight the Rock and if people respond well to him, he’ll get a solo movie maybe.

The first indication was in the Peacemaker finale actually. Sm wouldn't have been there if he didn't belonged to the future post-Flash plans according to James Gunn.

Do you have better "sources" than Gunn and the WB execs that ask him to cut Batfleck and Cyborg while keeping SM?

You really don’t think there’s been back and forth on the direction of the DCEU behind the scenes? I mean we just witnessed another high level purge at WB: Kilar, Sarnoff, Emmerich, and likely Hamada too. Is it so unbelievable that plans change especially at WB which has historically been incapable of sticking to a plan for long? They went through 4 versions of the Flash before settling on what we’re getting after all. Insiders were pretty adamant that Supes would be out of the DCEU post Flash, reliable guys like ViewerAnon were verifying leaks saying Supergirl replaced Superman.

[DABellWrites]

I'm saying that in terms of ROI Superman has not done well compared to the other DC films. Joker made over a billion on a relatively small budget. Shazam was greenlighted almost immediately for a sequel as its ROI was much better than that of MOS. Even if it brought in much less than MOS. The key was the much smaller budget of Shazam compared to MOS.

Can Superman be successful at the box office? Yes. The two first Reeve films were. But, to do that WB needs a great script, director and actor. It's hard to bring those together. Cavill is too divisive with fans so he is a non-starter but finding a great Supes actor is elusive. Directors too. Many good directors don't want to touch Superman. The Shazam director said he would not do Superman because of all the complications. It's a heavy lift and I don't see WB going there especially given that they have a lot of hot franchises right now. Better put out an Aquaman or BA or Batman or WW film every two/three years than chase after that perfect Superman film. I think Zaslav means to focus on these core characters who have been underutilized. Aquaman 2 will come out almost 5 years after the first film. Too long. Batman even longer between films which was a big mistake.

Bottom line WB was or maybe still is going to retcon Superman out of the DCEU and replace him with Supergirl which indicates they don't feel he is a big enough draw to be part of their film universe even in cameos. On top of which they were/are going to create a new "superman" with the Abrams project. Really a totally new IP which presumably would, if successful, be brought into the DCEU as a new franchise. Talk about absolutely no confidence in Superman as a franchise. No other way to look at it. At least Superman will remain part of the DC TV universe which fans should be grateful for.

People joke that Superman is the Hulk of the DC film universe but it's even worse. Hulk gets some airtime in the Marvel cinematic universe while Superman may end up getting none in the DCEU.

Well, Shazam was a much funnier film. If we notice the trend, people want FUN in their superheroes content. That's why the MCU is a roaring success, it's fun, but doesn't get too dark. Yet, folks still like The Boys. The last few Superman films have been opposite of that. People want Superman, if we can look at the box office, but they don't want what Snyder and Singer had to offer. it's okay for Batman to be dark, but not Superman.

[Jeffrey2]

Well, Shazam was a much funnier film. If we notice the trend, people want FUN in their superheroes content. That's why the MCU is a roaring success, it's fun, but doesn't get too dark. Yet, folks still like The Boys. The last few Superman films have been opposite of that. People want Superman, if we can look at the box office, but they don't want what Snyder and Singer had to offer. it's okay for Batman to be dark, but not Superman.

Agree, the scripts have really hurt the Superman films in recent years. The excuse one gets, even from Superman fans, is that the character is hard to write because he is so powerful. Tell that to the BA folks. That franchise is looking for a long run and they seemingly have a raft of ideas for sequels. And, hello, BA is as all powerful as Superman.

I have 100 eps of the Superboy series on DVD. Incredible writing in seasons 2, 3 and 4. Any number of them (Roads Not Taken, Mind Games, Mxyzptlk and a Toyman related story to name several) would be great to adapt as films. Their concepts blow the SR and MOS scripts away. Cary Bates and other DC writers wrote many of the series scripts. The series was serious but also fun (the way Lana figured out Clark's secret for instance).

Beyond that, Cary Bates was writing a script for a big screen Superman film set to follow Superboy after it planned 6 season run. The villain was Brainiac. The script was available online at one time. True to form WB screwed things up. Canceling the still top 10 rated Superboy after season 4 to make way for Lois and Clark. In the process the Brainiac Superman film was not pursued in favor of a Superman film set to feature Doomsday. A decision that threw Superman into development hell for more than a decade.

[Vordan]

On DCEU shared universe Superman:

I’m 80% sure Superman’s being rebooted

Me and my buddy had a convo yesterday and he said WB is going to start looking into refitting Superman into plans

On the Coates project:

As for the other Superman reboot project, the studio did give some serious notes. Whatever that means ����*♂️

But in totality, it was well received.

The delay has been due to a concern on whether the story will be a financial blow or hit for Supes. (It’s not action packed)

And whether it’s the direction needed for the character.

So we’ll all have to see the final choice

https://twitter.com/lookuponthesta/s...M8chA-a5P67v8A

This dude has made a lot of claims that are yet to be verified, and sometimes stuff happens that he didn’t predict or see coming (the Wonder Twins movie getting cancelled surprised him), but he’s been treated as a legit insider on the DCEULeaks subreddit. Nothing he’s saying is stuff we couldn’t guess ourselves however.

Seems that Superman will be in the DCEU but will be rebooted, and whether that’s with Cavill or not is unclear but likely not. The Coates project has seemingly stalled and the new person who comes on board to replace Hamada will get the final say on its fate. Sounds like Coates Superman movie would be just as boring as his BP run going off of the lack of action, so I hope that gets cancelled. Wonder if that rumor that they ordered him to scrap the PoC take and set it in the modern day is part of the notes? If they’re planning on rebooting the Superman in the DCEU I don’t think they’re going to have two reboots at the same time.

Basically what I’ve been saying for a while, the final decision on what to do will be with Hamada’s replacement. I’m guessing that replacement will be coming next year and we’ll find out then.

[manwhohaseverything]

Yep!lack of action is a deal breaker for me..

[Vakanai]

Just make an animated adaptation of Superman Smashes the Klan. It's the simplest easiest slam dunk in the world they could make.