Discovery Wants To Revitalize Superman

[DochaDocha]

There might be no good guys here, but as a fan I see a few villains in this story...

[Vordan]

This whole thing is a **** show. There are no good guys and bad guys here. The Warners executives were assholea and its starting to look like Snyder wasn't much better. Poor Cavill was first unfairly ousted by Warners over Snyder's failure and now the well has been so poisoned by Snyder's acolytes that I highly doubt the new people at Warners are even going to talk to him about coming back. Henry was screwed by both sides.

Cavill screwed himself out of the role when he pulled out of the Shazam cameo at the last minute. That sealed his fate. If he had done that, or even just the rumored Black Adam cameo, he’d probably be talking to Zaslav now given Miller is seemingly out now too.

[HsssH]

We still don't know what will be shown in Black Adam, no?

[Vordan]

We still don't know what will be shown in Black Adam, no?

Nothing confirmed no, but the tease apparently has another faceless DCEU Superman cameo which appears to be setting up a Adam showdown with DCEU Superman. They’ll probably use Flashpoint to recast the role if they’re going to keep Superman in the DCEU after all.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Cavill screwed himself out of the role when he pulled out of the Shazam cameo at the last minute. That sealed his fate. If he had done that, or even just the rumored Black Adam cameo, he’d probably be talking to Zaslav now given Miller is seemingly out now too.

The article I linked in the previous page, make it sounds he was fired not that he screwed himself, WB didn't wanted him anymore:

A Warners source says the Shazam! deal fell apart because of scheduling conflicts. And that is backed up by the fact that Cavill recently signed on to star in the Netflix series The Witcher. However, another source says that the Witcher commitment came after the Warners impasse, suggesting a change in the studio’s strategy.

“There’s a recognition that some parts of the previous movies didn’t work,” says the studio insider. Another source says Warners is trying to hit a “reset” button with the DC universe, steering its ship slowly into another direction.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...ke-up-1142306/

The "other direction" was making MBJ the new Superman. The talk with him started back then.

And after Hamada was planning the post-Flash DCEU, the talks with Henry to reprise his role started again: https://variety.com/2020/film/news/h...eo-1234618227/

This was reiterated in later articles from 2021. But there was never anything official saying he signed or was done, unlike what we got for Fisher, Affleck and even Ezra lately.

This why I keep pointing to the release of Black Adam (3 more months, yay!) to get an official update on Cavill's status. If he isn't in the final movie, they'll explain why. The post credit scene will be the most talked part of the movie anyway, it'll not be gloss over.

Nothing confirmed no, but the tease apparently has another faceless DCEU Superman cameo which appears to be setting up a Adam showdown with DCEU Superman. They’ll probably use Flashpoint to recast the role if they’re going to keep Superman in the DCEU after all.

The Rock will fight a faceless Superman in the sequel to keep the gag going.

[Vordan]

THR also says this:

Warners had been trying to enlist Cavill, who most recently co-starred in Mission: Impossible — Fallout, for a Superman cameo in Shazam!, which stars Zachary Levi and will bow April 5. But contract talks between Cavill’s WME reps and the studio broke down, and the door is now closing on other potential Superman appearances.

And you’ll recall that they were apparently trying to get him to be the “Nick Fury” of the DCEU (cameoing in other peoples movies but not getting a solo of his own). Basically the timeline seems to have been:

-WB offers Cavill a new deal where he won’t get a solo but he will get to keep being Superman
-Cavill agrees to do a Shazam cameo but also puts together a pitch for a new Superman movie with MacQuarrie
-WB passes on that pitch and presses Cavill to agree to do more cameos; They’re also seemingly asking directors like James Gunn if they have any interest in Superman
-Cavill rejects their offer and also pulls out on doing Shazam at the last minute as a **** you to WB
-WB now views Cavill as a pain in the ass and decides he’s done, they start soliciting pitches for a reboot and also get the ball rolling on a Supergirl movie
-Eventually Hamada takes over, he tries to get Cavill to come back for Flash/Supergirl but Cavill refuses unless he gets his own solo; it’s decided Superman will be erased after the Flash, replaced with Supergirl, and a new reboot with Abrams and Coates will happen while MBJ does an HBO Max Val pitch, DC is going to lean on the Multiverse gimmick to compensate for its shared universe failure
-Discovery buys out WB, Zaslav comes on board, wants to pivot back for the shared universe
-Purge happens, all the old higher ups who supported Abrams/Coates have gotten kicked out except for Hamada (and he seems likely to be getting the boot too); Zaslav is out to pay off debt and explicitly isn’t interested in outspending competitors when it comes to MAX, wants safe blockbusters
-Where we are currently. The Rock wants to fight Superman, Zaslav seems to want Superman to play a role in the shared universe, the new higher ups might want a fresh start and Abrams is in the hot seat for wasting time and money without producing anything. The Rock seemingly managed to successfully get Superman in his movie which forces WB to change their plans and now Superman will still exist in the DCEU
-New DC head will be announced at some point and a final decision will be made on what to do then. I still think a reboot in the DCEU with a recast is the route they’ll ultimately go

[Jeffrey2]

I dunno. WBD has 3-billion-dollar DC francizes (assumong BA breaks that mark) 4 when Batman 2 comes out. WW is close to a billion-dollar franchise and Shazam 2 looks promising and could maybe get to the 700 million mark.

Another Superman film? Even if good it won't make a billion. Too much baggage from the Snyder years. If it is good a sequel could maybe do a billion but by then we are talking 2029 or 2030. Superman goes public and you can bet Marvel is ready to do its own Superman film. Stealing the thunder from WEB's franchise.

I suspect WBD will pass on Superman. They don't need the franchise or the grief.

[manofsteel1979]

There might be no good guys here, but as a fan I see a few villains in this story...

I reedited my post above. I meant to say no" good guys but some bad guys " and somehow worded it wrong.


Warners acted terribly but it looks like Snyder turned a blind eye to some disgusting behavior from his fans. He can't claim ignorance. He was fully aware of some really nasty and toxic behavior and possibly even encouraged it and participated in it personally.

[Last Son of Krypton]

THR also says this:

Oh right.

And you’ll recall that they were apparently trying to get him to be the “Nick Fury” of the DCEU (cameoing in other peoples movies but not getting a solo of his own). Basically the timeline seems to have been:

-WB offers Cavill a new deal where he wonÂ’t get a solo but he will get to keep being Superman
-Cavill agrees to do a Shazam cameo but also puts together a pitch for a new Superman movie with MacQuarrie
-WB passes on that pitch and presses Cavill to agree to do more cameos; TheyÂ’re also seemingly asking directors like James Gunn if they have any interest in Superman
-Cavill rejects their offer and also pulls out on doing Shazam at the last minute as a **** you to WB
-WB now views Cavill as a pain in the ass and decides heÂ’s done, they start soliciting pitches for a reboot and also get the ball rolling on a Supergirl movie
-Eventually Hamada takes over, he tries to get Cavill to come back for Flash/Supergirl but Cavill refuses unless he gets his own solo; itÂ’s decided Superman will be erased after the Flash, replaced with Supergirl, and a new reboot with Abrams and Coates will happen while MBJ does an HBO Max Val pitch, DC is going to lean on the Multiverse gimmick to compensate for its shared universe failure
-Discovery buys out WB, Zaslav comes on board, wants to pivot back for the shared universe
-Purge happens, all the old higher ups who supported Abrams/Coates have gotten kicked out except for Hamada (and he seems likely to be getting the boot too); Zaslav is out to pay off debt and explicitly isnÂ’t interested in outspending competitors when it comes to MAX, wants safe blockbusters
-Where we are currently. The Rock wants to fight Superman, Zaslav seems to want Superman to play a role in the shared universe, the new higher ups might want a fresh start and Abrams is in the hot seat for wasting time and money without producing anything. The Rock seemingly managed to successfully get Superman in his movie which forces WB to change their plans and now Superman will still exist in the DCEU
-New DC head will be announced at some point and a final decision will be made on what to do then. I still think a reboot in the DCEU with a recast is the route theyÂ’ll ultimately go

A lot are all speculations. This decision of erasing Superman you keep bring in from more than half a year when it's supposed to take place? Right before Flash started filming Cavill was still set to return according to Variety (bottom article): https://variety.com/2021/film/news/h...ng-1234902098/

After Flash was done filming, The Rock and WB were keep teasing the SM vs BA thing. Early 2022 (on Feb), James Gunn implied Superman is one of the few characters that are part of the post-Flash's plans. Black Adam's post credit scene was shown in June, but reshoots on the movie were started in May and still happening in early June. The scene is also set by what happened early in the film. It's not some disconnected thing added at the 11th hour.

They never released an official statement about Cavill's status like they did for every other actors and for Cavill himself back in 2018. He is still used as the face of live action Superman in their promo DC stuff (along with Pattinson and the other current actors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuFf6jSp5zk

Sasha Calle's Supergirl is the cousin of his iteration of Superman, not of an alt. SM. and she's tied to the MoS' continuity, same Krypton, same Zod, same costumes, etc. They went as far to call back the crew that worked on MoS to recreate that movie aesthetic. They don't do all of this for Batfleck or Rayborg.

I mean from what I know he could've filmed **** or had schedulings problem to film something due Covid delays, or The Rock is keeping the door open for him, lol, but I'd like to hear something official, not speculations.

I get where are you coming from, you wanted him done and erased for long.

[Jeffrey2]

Oh right.



They never released an official statement about Cavill's status like they did for every other actors and for Cavill himself back in 2018. He is still used as the face of live action Superman in their promo DC stuff (along with Pattinson and the other current actors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuFf6jSp5zk

I assume that is because WB still wanted Cavill to cameo as Supes in other films. But that would not entail Cavill getting a solo. Cavill kept barking up that tree. Did he really believe he'd ever get a solo? He should have bowed out gracefully and said he was moving on from the role. Now it will be up to WBD to announce that Cavill is no longer associated with the role. Cavill knows it's over. A year or more ago he really cut back on posting Superman stuff on his Instagram. He posted nothing for Superman Day this year.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I assume that is because WB still wanted Cavill to cameo as Supes in other films. But that would not entail Cavill getting a solo. Cavill kept barking up that tree. Did he really believe he'd ever get a solo? He should have bowed out gracefully and said he was moving on from the role. Now it will be up to WBD to announce that Cavill is no longer associated with the role. Cavill knows it's over. A year or more ago he really cut back on posting Superman stuff on his Instagram. He posted nothing for Superman Day this year.

I don't know what he believes, I can't read his mind, lol.

I don't follow him (or other actors) on socials to know what he posts. But my bae showed me some concept artist of BA tagging Henry for Superman's day to tease the post credit scene feat. SM.

Henry is still sort of associated to the BA vs SM project from years (he has the same manager as The Rock so that's how the collab. started). For those who don't know, the producers of BA are Henry's manager and her brother, The Rock (one of the most influential actor of Hollywood) is also Cavill's friend and on his side.

[NaVi]

I don't know if anyone here understands how selling the rights to the character could work for a few years.
WB doesn't do anything with Superman, that means he doesn't give them money. that they sell the rights, others release Superman movies, no matter how little they earn from the sale, it will be more than what they earn now, whoever buys the rights would have to do very badly to further damage the character's image, plus sure WB could set certain limits.
WB has its money, it gets rid of a character that according to them is already dead, the fans have our movie, everyone wins.

[JAK]

I assume that is because WB still wanted Cavill to cameo as Supes in other films. But that would not entail Cavill getting a solo. Cavill kept barking up that tree. Did he really believe he'd ever get a solo? He should have bowed out gracefully and said he was moving on from the role. Now it will be up to WBD to announce that Cavill is no longer associated with the role. Cavill knows it's over. A year or more ago he really cut back on posting Superman stuff on his Instagram. He posted nothing for Superman Day this year.

I have to say... I kinda get it. Let's assume he's a fan; he wants to see Superman done more in a classic style (which I think he said at one point) so he wants a solo movie to prove it can be done and get that crack at it he should have had in the first place... but they say no. Depending on how WB worded that response, do you want to do what they want anyway even if they say that what you want will never happen? Or do you try to see if you can hold out and get them to change their minds (especially considering all the shake-ups means minds can change at any time)? And when it all fails.. how do you feel then? Is Superman Day happy for you? Or do you just not have the heart to post anything?

Someone mentioned things Cavill has said recently and I haven't seen those, so the above may be way off base. But I've been in similar situations before (albeit on a somewhat smaller scale), and had much the same reaction. Some things that I went to for years just weren't the same after that, and I decided it would be better to not be seen by some as "easily available" as before. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Doesn't mean you can't have any feelings the consequences, regardless.

[Jeffrey2]

I have to say... I kinda get it. Let's assume he's a fan; he wants to see Superman done more in a classic style (which I think he said at one point) so he wants a solo movie to prove it can be done and get that crack at it he should have had in the first place... but they say no. Depending on how WB worded that response, do you want to do what they want anyway even if they say that what you want will never happen? Or do you try to see if you can hold out and get them to change their minds (especially considering all the shake-ups means minds can change at any time)? And when it all fails.. how do you feel then? Is Superman Day happy for you? Or do you just not have the heart to post anything?

Someone mentioned things Cavill has said recently and I haven't seen those, so the above may be way off base. But I've been in similar situations before (albeit on a somewhat smaller scale), and had much the same reaction. Some things that I went to for years just weren't the same after that, and I decided it would be better to not be seen by some as "easily available" as before. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Doesn't mean you can't have any feelings the consequences, regardless.

I am not a Cavill fan and believe he was miscast in the role. To be fair, I believe Adams was also miscast. That said, Cavill's vision was a trilogy of films focusing on Superman (and Lois) and a natural development of their relationship over those films with possibly more films after the trilogy (Gadot and Mamoa supposedly have been tied down for additional films beyond their trilogies) so dreams shattered. Almost immediately with the poor reaction to MOS and Batman coming in and essentially taking over with BvS.

If there is a Superman cameo at the end of BA by almost all accounts it will be a faceless Superman. Meaning an official parting of the way by WBD. The wise thing to do would be for Cavill to announce his departure from the role before BA comes out and beat WBD to the punch. We'll see what happens as BA is just 3 months away..

[JAK]

I am not a Cavill fan and believe he was miscast in the role. To be fair, I believe Adams was also miscast. That said, Cavill's vision was a trilogy of films focusing on Superman (and Lois) and a natural development of their relationship over those films with possibly more films after the trilogy (Gadot and Mamoa supposedly have been tied down for additional films beyond their trilogies) so dreams shattered. Almost immediately with the poor reaction to MOS and Batman coming in and essentially taking over with BvS.

If there is a Superman cameo at the end of BA by almost all accounts it will be a faceless Superman. Meaning an official parting of the way by WBD. The wise thing to do would be for Cavill to announce his departure from the role before BA comes out and beat WBD to the punch. We'll see what happens as BA is just 3 months away..

I can't stand the Snyder films, myself, but I don't blame Cavill for that, especially after seeing him in "The Man From U.N.C.L.E.":


Ironically, he's playing a jackass here and still manages to look 100x more like Superman than he did in the Snyder films. I would almost agree that Adams and Cavill's chemistry is a bit off, but I think that's the directing, too - and the script. Because I know Amy Adams has played roles in the past where I could completely see her as Lois.

I agree as to where WB will likely go, I'm just saying that I get where and why Cavill made the moves he made. As for which decision is best for Cavill, that's hard to say - there are certainly pros and cons either direction; if he leaves, that may seal his fate (which is likely sealed regardless, but still) but may also be a power move as you say... but if he's basically out but not fully, and no other ideas pan out for WB (and we know they're horrible at getting Superman ideas off the ground), they may go back to him yet. That doesn't seem likely, but you never know. And who knows what Johnson and his team are saying to Cavill in the meantime.