I don't blame Affleck for commandeering creative control of BvS or anything like that, just to be clear.
I think when they hit the panic button and decided to bring on Batman and cast a big star, the power balance swung away from Superman/Cavill and had no chance. To be fair, Affleck wasn't just a bigger name. He's also more accomplished as an actor, director, etc. But we saw what happened. Wonder Woman was cast based on screen testing with Affleck. Affleck reportedly made last minute changes to the script. And, of course, the movie revolved around Batman and Superman scenes were the ones cut from theatrical.
If some big name (let's say Dwayne Johnson) played Superman and saw his role diminish like mad, he pushes back (see the Fast and the Furious franchise). He makes sure his role doesn't get reduced. Cavill didn't have (and still doesn't, seeing how he never played Superman again) that kind of power.
If you could control all of the variables and could isolate this version of Superman, a no-name is better. On the other hand, I think of ensemble films as a bit inevitable and Superman's going to cross over, so I'd rather eliminate those power imbalance risks. Further, I think Superman is the natural cornerstone to help bring things together, so as long as they don't crap all over Superman I'm fine with crossovers. That's probably like asking, though, to win the Powerball and wishing nobody knew about it and started hounding me for money, i.e. good luck with that happening.
It's great that Discovery sees the problem with DC's roster, especially Superman.
But that doesn't impress me. You'd have to be blind, deaf, and dumb not to see the trouble WB/DC have had. Even WB knows they screwed up, and they've known that since BvS.
Knowing things need to be fixed is one thing. Knowing *how* to fix them is another, and the question remains; does Discovery know how to fix this, or will they just blame the character, call him out dated, and try to make him more like Batman, same as WB did?
"We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."
~ Black Panther.
Superman doesn't need a homerun, he just needs a good movie. Who cares if it makes a billion dollars and all that. Just needs to be good.
Eh, the ensemble doesn't have to be inevitable. No one's expecting Pattinson's Batman to join the Justice League.
Hey, if they're cool with someone who has no directoral experience whatsoever to spearhead the revival, I'm available.
Assassinate Putin!
You're absolutely right on both points. Still, I sort of see business pressure building to grow the DC brand by rounding up a bunch of solo heroes into one movie. It may happen, it may not happen, but I think if they finally get Supes/Kal/Clark back up and running there's going to be a plan to crossover heroes. I haven't seen Pattinson's Batman yet (hope to next week when my wife's schedule opens up), but I can see a business/artistic case to let it and its characters stand alone. I think The Batman is already seen as a success, and if Reeves and Pattinson say putting these characters in a world full of Kryptonians, Amazons, Green Lanterns, and Martians is going to break their creation, they'll let them stay in isolation.
Anyway, I think the best case scenario is we get Superman back in the DCEU and they do a good job with it, but the likelihood of that happening is not good because I don't have faith in their ability to incorporate Superman with the shared universe. I think the most likely scenario is they bring back some kind of Super (sic) in the DCEU and it'll be mediocre. The scenario that probably makes the best compromise of being most likely to please us and being like to occur is if they just give us solo Superman films. I'll miss the opportunity for Supes to interact with WW, Flash, GL, etc., but if solo gives us the best Supes possible then I'll take it.
Last edited by DochaDocha; 04-17-2022 at 02:41 PM.
Cavill or bust. Getting tired of the movie obsessions as well.
I'm just the opposite - I think that the best case scenario is Superman doesn't get back in the DCEU, doesn't interact with WW, Flash, GL, etc, but instead they give us solo Superman films. A Superman trilogy unconnected to a shared universe is my Superman fandom dream right now. Just give me great Superman solo films and I'll be a happy camper.
Business pressure just wants profits. While the MCU is so profitable everyone has tried, and failed, to copy it, there's no reason they can't look at The Batman, Joker, and the Nolan trilogy out of universe success and think that solo films could still work for Superman. Or maybe I'm just too hopeful and optimistic to the point of delusion.
Oh, I was never excited for BvS - the second they announced it, I was like "you haven't even grown the first protagonist properly yet, and we're going to shoehorn in another? Yeah, that's not going to work...". Frankly, the only reason I went to even see it in theaters was because I liked "Argo" enough that I thought maybe having some of those people might salvage the script. That didn't happen, but it was the only reason I thought it had a chance of not being a garbage fire.
It's true. If they had properly set up Superman before bringing Batman in, it would have been a LOT more solid. But then, Snyder wanted to take 5 movies to get to a Superman I had any interest in seeing, so Clark was getting screwed no matter what.
This definitely depends on the superstar; I'm not *against* the idea, but I'm also not really for it. It would have to be a superstar who's known for disappearing into their roles. Star power for it's own sake isn't appealing to me. There's a reason that the best known Superman, even now, is a then-unknown who's best turn in the role came 43 years ago. The most important thing Superman needs is a crew of people (including the star role) who are dedicated to a solid vision of the character that resonates with people.
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