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  1. #61
    Jax City/Kill The FIremen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The imbalance came because Affleck was playing Batman, not because of Affleck himself. Superman would be fine with an unknown name as long as he’s on his own and doesn’t have to share screen time with someone else. Besides what major A-Lister out there right now would even be a good fit? I can’t think of any. Wouldn’t mind seeing David Corenswet get his shot since he’s said he wants it.
    Just looked him up, he reminds me of Tom Wellington (however you spell his name).

  2. #62
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    That's whats been so infuriating. For as long as it is taking a freaking Flash Movie off the ground and Into the theaters. We could have had a full Superman trilogy with Cavill, Amy Adams etc AND Cavill headlining two JL movies. . MOS didn't make a billion dollars, but 650 million plus was a good start and there was enough momentum there to do a proper sequel and even a threequel in fairly short order and a pretty strong foundation to build a cinematic universe. But no...they had to rush things to catch up to Marvel and they fell on their face hard....and still no Flash or Cyborg film in 2022.

    WBs biggest issue is regarding DC properties and Superman have long boiled down to impatience and a lack of willingness to put the effort in to A: to acknowledge the studio's (and to a lesser extent DC itself ) role in letting the Superman property down and B: putting in the hard work and effort to fix it. After like a downward trend of over 30 years in cinemas, there was no conceivable way a Superman movie was going to do Dark Knight level money in 2013. Yet that was WB'S expectation and when it didn't instead of moving ahead with a sequel they decided to change course and rush into JL and a cinematic universe with Superman suddenly an afterthought.

    For a DCEU to work, Superman has to work. Thats the bottom line. No Superman and you get no universe IMO.
    MoS did also well in DVD/Blu-ray (the best selling DCEU movie along with WW). A proper sequel would've made more money for sure.

    If BM was introduced in is his own solo before JL, a MoS sequel could've happened even with the shared universe being a priority.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    You only need star power if doing a shared universe full of other celebrities like BvS. I'd prefer a crossover free trilogy. Just focus on doing Superman independently ala the Nolanverse and The Batman has done for Bruce. For that, a relative unknown could be fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The imbalance came because Affleck was playing Batman, not because of Affleck himself. Superman would be fine with an unknown name as long as he’s on his own and doesn’t have to share screen time with someone else. Besides what major A-Lister out there right now would even be a good fit? I can’t think of any. Wouldn’t mind seeing David Corenswet get his shot since he’s said he wants it.
    I don't blame Affleck for commandeering creative control of BvS or anything like that, just to be clear.

    I think when they hit the panic button and decided to bring on Batman and cast a big star, the power balance swung away from Superman/Cavill and had no chance. To be fair, Affleck wasn't just a bigger name. He's also more accomplished as an actor, director, etc. But we saw what happened. Wonder Woman was cast based on screen testing with Affleck. Affleck reportedly made last minute changes to the script. And, of course, the movie revolved around Batman and Superman scenes were the ones cut from theatrical.

    If some big name (let's say Dwayne Johnson) played Superman and saw his role diminish like mad, he pushes back (see the Fast and the Furious franchise). He makes sure his role doesn't get reduced. Cavill didn't have (and still doesn't, seeing how he never played Superman again) that kind of power.

    If you could control all of the variables and could isolate this version of Superman, a no-name is better. On the other hand, I think of ensemble films as a bit inevitable and Superman's going to cross over, so I'd rather eliminate those power imbalance risks. Further, I think Superman is the natural cornerstone to help bring things together, so as long as they don't crap all over Superman I'm fine with crossovers. That's probably like asking, though, to win the Powerball and wishing nobody knew about it and started hounding me for money, i.e. good luck with that happening.

  4. #64
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    It's great that Discovery sees the problem with DC's roster, especially Superman.

    But that doesn't impress me. You'd have to be blind, deaf, and dumb not to see the trouble WB/DC have had. Even WB knows they screwed up, and they've known that since BvS.

    Knowing things need to be fixed is one thing. Knowing *how* to fix them is another, and the question remains; does Discovery know how to fix this, or will they just blame the character, call him out dated, and try to make him more like Batman, same as WB did?
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  5. #65
    Extraordinary Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The imbalance came because Affleck was playing Batman, not because of Affleck himself. Superman would be fine with an unknown name as long as he’s on his own and doesn’t have to share screen time with someone else. Besides what major A-Lister out there right now would even be a good fit? I can’t think of any. Wouldn’t mind seeing David Corenswet get his shot since he’s said he wants it.
    David would fit good and he look like Cavill. He just needs to bulk up that's all.

  6. #66
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I would say they are needed in both..The movie needs to be absolute home run.A big star can ensure that and with experience can give great performance that can engage people...
    Superman doesn't need a homerun, he just needs a good movie. Who cares if it makes a billion dollars and all that. Just needs to be good.

    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    If you could control all of the variables and could isolate this version of Superman, a no-name is better. On the other hand, I think of ensemble films as a bit inevitable and Superman's going to cross over, so I'd rather eliminate those power imbalance risks. Further, I think Superman is the natural cornerstone to help bring things together, so as long as they don't crap all over Superman I'm fine with crossovers. That's probably like asking, though, to win the Powerball and wishing nobody knew about it and started hounding me for money, i.e. good luck with that happening.
    Eh, the ensemble doesn't have to be inevitable. No one's expecting Pattinson's Batman to join the Justice League.

  7. #67
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Honeyed words. I'll believe the finished product.
    Exactly. "Revitalized" could mean anything. The details are what matter.
    Power with Girl is better.

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Hey, if they're cool with someone who has no directoral experience whatsoever to spearhead the revival, I'm available.
    Assassinate Putin!

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Eh, the ensemble doesn't have to be inevitable. No one's expecting Pattinson's Batman to join the Justice League.
    You're absolutely right on both points. Still, I sort of see business pressure building to grow the DC brand by rounding up a bunch of solo heroes into one movie. It may happen, it may not happen, but I think if they finally get Supes/Kal/Clark back up and running there's going to be a plan to crossover heroes. I haven't seen Pattinson's Batman yet (hope to next week when my wife's schedule opens up), but I can see a business/artistic case to let it and its characters stand alone. I think The Batman is already seen as a success, and if Reeves and Pattinson say putting these characters in a world full of Kryptonians, Amazons, Green Lanterns, and Martians is going to break their creation, they'll let them stay in isolation.

    Anyway, I think the best case scenario is we get Superman back in the DCEU and they do a good job with it, but the likelihood of that happening is not good because I don't have faith in their ability to incorporate Superman with the shared universe. I think the most likely scenario is they bring back some kind of Super (sic) in the DCEU and it'll be mediocre. The scenario that probably makes the best compromise of being most likely to please us and being like to occur is if they just give us solo Superman films. I'll miss the opportunity for Supes to interact with WW, Flash, GL, etc., but if solo gives us the best Supes possible then I'll take it.
    Last edited by DochaDocha; 04-17-2022 at 02:41 PM.

  10. #70
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    Cavill or bust. Getting tired of the movie obsessions as well.

  11. #71
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    You're absolutely right on both points. Still, I sort of see business pressure building to grow the DC brand by rounding up a bunch of solo heroes into one movie. It may happen, it may not happen, but I think if they finally get Supes/Kal/Clark back up and running there's going to be a plan to crossover heroes. I haven't seen Pattinson's Batman yet (hope to next week when my wife's schedule opens up), but I can see a business/artistic case to let it and its characters stand alone. I think The Batman is already seen as a success, and if Reeves and Pattinson say putting these characters in a world full of Kryptonians, Amazons, Green Lanterns, and Martians is going to break their creation, they'll let them stay in isolation.

    Anyway, I think the best case scenario is we get Superman back in the DCEU and they do a good job with it, but the likelihood of that happening is not good because I don't have faith in their ability to incorporate Superman with the shared universe. I think the most likely scenario is they bring back some kind of Super (sic) in the DCEU and it'll be mediocre. The scenario that probably makes the best compromise of being most likely to please us and being like to occur is if they just give us solo Superman films. I'll miss the opportunity for Supes to interact with WW, Flash, GL, etc., but if solo gives us the best Supes possible then I'll take it.
    I'm just the opposite - I think that the best case scenario is Superman doesn't get back in the DCEU, doesn't interact with WW, Flash, GL, etc, but instead they give us solo Superman films. A Superman trilogy unconnected to a shared universe is my Superman fandom dream right now. Just give me great Superman solo films and I'll be a happy camper.

    Business pressure just wants profits. While the MCU is so profitable everyone has tried, and failed, to copy it, there's no reason they can't look at The Batman, Joker, and the Nolan trilogy out of universe success and think that solo films could still work for Superman. Or maybe I'm just too hopeful and optimistic to the point of delusion.

  12. #72
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jely4me View Post
    Cavill or bust. Getting tired of the movie obsessions as well.
    I'll take bust over Cavill. He's just not my Superman. Too much baggage from some of the worst DC films.

  13. #73
    Jax City/Kill The FIremen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I'll take bust over Cavill. He's just not my Superman. Too much baggage from some of the worst DC films.
    I also don't get the love or Cavill. I'll get hate for this, but I don't get the praise for Gadot or Affleck either. To me, DCEU hasn't captured these characters. The animated stuff are much more faithful, regardless how you feel about Wonder Woman in the JL series.

  14. #74
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    I also don't get the love or Cavill. I'll get hate for this, but I don't get the praise for Gadot or Affleck either. To me, DCEU hasn't captured these characters. The animated stuff are much more faithful, regardless how you feel about Wonder Woman in the JL series.
    Eh, not always - the animated stuff has had plenty of misfired too. A lot of their adaptations have been some of the worst. At least on the movie side. The series tend to do much better.

  15. #75
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaVi View Post
    With all the mistreatment that Superman suffers when he shares the stage with Batman, it seemed incredible to me that Superman fans were excited about BvS, I think with a little thought the role of Superman was very obvious, and it was a movie that was part of the Superman universe, imagine what would happen if they share the stage in a Batman universe, which is also a success in every way.
    Oh, I was never excited for BvS - the second they announced it, I was like "you haven't even grown the first protagonist properly yet, and we're going to shoehorn in another? Yeah, that's not going to work...". Frankly, the only reason I went to even see it in theaters was because I liked "Argo" enough that I thought maybe having some of those people might salvage the script. That didn't happen, but it was the only reason I thought it had a chance of not being a garbage fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    You know I always believe that the DCEU didn't work because the screwed over Superman.
    It's true. If they had properly set up Superman before bringing Batman in, it would have been a LOT more solid. But then, Snyder wanted to take 5 movies to get to a Superman I had any interest in seeing, so Clark was getting screwed no matter what.

    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Yeah, I would also prefer a superstar actor to play Superman (aka Clark Kent, aka Kal-El; I accept no substitutes). The star power imbalance between Cavill and Affleck caused problems for us Superman fans.
    This definitely depends on the superstar; I'm not *against* the idea, but I'm also not really for it. It would have to be a superstar who's known for disappearing into their roles. Star power for it's own sake isn't appealing to me. There's a reason that the best known Superman, even now, is a then-unknown who's best turn in the role came 43 years ago. The most important thing Superman needs is a crew of people (including the star role) who are dedicated to a solid vision of the character that resonates with people.
    Hear my new CD "Love The World Away", available on iTunes, Google Music, Spotify, Shazam, and Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N5XYV..._waESybX1C0RXK via @amazon
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