DC Comics July 2022 Solicitations

[Rac7d*]

I take it you’ve never read Johns’ Teen Titans. The homoerotic subtext between Tim and Conner was fairly obvious (especially after Conner died and Tim was carrying on like Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights.)

It’s 2022 man we’re subtext isn’t good enough anymore. Connor Kent is owned by DC comics. Never say never but I don’t think DC will have a second superboy as lgbt when their using Jon Kent to headline those characters as a whole. I understand that is another reason why people resent present day Jon Kent.

[13th Superman]

I take it you’ve never read Johns’ Teen Titans. The homoerotic subtext between Tim and Conner was fairly obvious (especially after Conner died and Tim was carrying on like Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights.)

Subtext? His close friendship with Conner was based on Geoff Johns relationship with his brother who was also co-writing the book. In that same interview Johns explicitly says Conner likes pretty girls. Link to interview below.

https://www.cbr.com/super-stars-part...n-teen-titans/

[skyvolt2000]

Yes they do

People tend to not like change if the likes the previous status quo.

While that is true-there are different levels of it.

The main ones that attract the most toxic behavior is LGBTQA+ or POC.

Folks want to bring up Marv Wolfman and why his run didn't out Tim. Once again a writer is only allowed to do what editorial and the owners ALLOW.
How many LGBTQA+ characters were running around as leads or co-lead in books at that time? Not many.

It's a bad retcon that fundamentally changes who the character is.

So him being bisexual NULLFIES his 182 solo run, his 3 minis series, his run with Batman, his Red Robin run, his runs in Teen Titans and Young Justice.

So I guess New X-Men Academy NEVER happened since Prodigy came out.

So Static Shock cartoon never happened because Gears/Rich was gay like he was in the comic book. Because he WAS gay, they just could not say it on air.

Alpha Flight never happened because Northstar came out.

Steel's comic book run NEVER happened because Natasha Iron came out as gay LONG after that book ended and she was lusting after Superboy.

Infinity Inc never happened either because Todd Rice came out years later in what JSA?

Archie comics never happened since Nancy Woods dumped Chuck Clayton for another woman.

The 60 year history of X-Men never happened because Iceman got outed? That means Nightcrawler was NEVER an X-Man. Right?

Funny all that history is STILL valid.

All those folks are still the same people.

[cranger]

So, there were solicitations released or something?

[RJT]

There is much of Geoff Johns' writing that I either haven't read or that I felt was just lame. I did once buy/read Teen Titans: A Kid's Game tpb which was published back in 2004 and had no interest in reading any more of Johns' run on the Teen Titans.

And has anybody ever asked Geoff Johns if he intended his writing of scenes between Tim and Conner to be viewed that way?

I don’t think anyone should have to read anything they don’t want to, but then they can’t claim there is no evidence in the character’s history when they’ve excluded a large part of that character’s history.

As far as what Johns intended, according to some people here, no one except Marv Wolfman and Pat Broderick can decide anything about Tim Drake.

But I don’t think Johns has said anything about it one way or the other, but in the One Year Later storyline, Tim is still obsessed with the death of Conner a full year after his death and is doing everything in his power to resurrect him. This is someone who had both of his parents murdered—his father’s death is directly related to him being Robin, but he never tries to resurrect them or clone them. Nope, just this random guy who he is on a superhero team with—that’s the guy he’s weeping over a year after his death, and trying to bring that random guy back to life. There’s definitely no subtext there.

And even if that wasn’t the intent, it certainly *supports* the idea that Tim Drake could be bisexual. So it isn’t a retcon—this wasn’t an event that was inserted back into his past retroactively after they had him come out. It predates that by 15 years. But just as Al Ewing (and other people who realize their queerness later in their lives) they can look back at events in their life that now take on a new context given their realization about their sexuality.

[Johnny]

So him being bisexual NULLFIES his 182 solo run, his 3 minis series, his run with Batman, his Red Robin run, his runs in Teen Titans and Young Justice.

Doesn't nullify them but when a "retcon" or whatever you choose to call it, becomes the main or only reason any character who's been essentially wasted for years is suddenly given a big push out of nowhere, you're telling your audience the character was no longer seen as good enough the way they were and they could only be given more spotlight if something was changed about them.


PS: If you're going to keep quoting more than one poster in a single comment, please stop deleting the usernames of the other people you quoted. Gives the wrong impression that every comment you responded to was made by the same person when it wasn't. You're doing this all the time and I don't get the logic behind it. Nothing is going to cost you to not delete the other usernames to avoid unnecessary confusion. Unless this is for some reason done by design in which case I can't fathom why.

[Drako]

I don’t think anyone should have to read anything they don’t want to, but then they can’t claim there is no evidence in the character’s history when they’ve excluded a large part of that character’s history.

As far as what Johns intended, according to some people here, no one except Marv Wolfman and Pat Broderick can decide anything about Tim Drake.

But I don’t think Johns has said anything about it one way or the other, but in the One Year Later storyline, Tim is still obsessed with the death of Conner a full year after his death and is doing everything in his power to resurrect him. This is someone who had both of his parents murdered—his father’s death is directly related to him being Robin, but he never tries to resurrect them or clone them. Nope, just this random guy who he is on a superhero team with—that’s the guy he’s weeping over a year after his death, and trying to bring that random guy back to life. There’s definitely no subtext there.

And even if that wasn’t the intent, it certainly *supports* the idea that Tim Drake could be bisexual. So it isn’t a retcon—this wasn’t an event that was inserted back into his past retroactively after they had him come out. It predates that by 15 years. But just as Al Ewing (and other people who realize their queerness later in their lives) they can look back at events in their life that now take on a new context given their realization about their sexuality.

I never read that as being subtext for his sexuality, to me at the time was always about Conner's death being the last straw of events to push him "over the edge".
In, i don't know, less the a year in continuity he lost his girlfriend, his dad and his best friend, who was most certanly not some random dude. After that he started to be more and more serious, that lead to him being Red Robin later. But people read into things differently.

Also, he did try to revive the three of them in the Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul.

[classyjazzy]

If it had been merely revealed, Wolfman would have had it in mind forever ago. So you're wrong. It's a bad retcon that fundamentally changes who the character is. You can play the game that it doesn't change the past all day. But you can do that with every single character. And that doesn't stop it from being lazy, unnecessary, and an act of disrespect to change such an aspect of a character. Bad retcons are bad retcons. But bad retcons on sensitive issues are even worse because the person who does it has set up anyone who opposes it to get attacked. There are a lot of characters that I liked and have been retconned, but if I go in one of their threads and discuss it, I would be run out. These kinds of changes divide the fandom like no other and it's wholly unnecessary when said characters can be kept with the traits they were created under and new diverse characters can be created. But the current crop of creators who are hired are just too lazy and son't care about the characters.

it divides the fandom because half of the fandom is so sensitive they cant handle a gay or bisexual character after decades of no representation. also, usually the people who oppose it are the same people who have the same opinions about lgbtq people in real life and are pretty toxic.

[RJT]

I never read that as being subtext for his sexuality, to me at the time was always about Conner's death being the last straw of events to push him "over the edge".
In, i don't know, less the a year in continuity he lost his girlfriend, his dad and his best friend, who was most certanly not some random dude. After that he started to be more and more serious, that lead to him being Red Robin later. But people read into things differently.

Also, he did try to revive the three of them in the Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul.

That’s your interpretation of the events in that series, which you are entitled to. But if someone else reads those events (as I and others did back in 2006) as having a romantic subtext, we have to be entitled to that as well. And it certainly can be read that way.

Probably the most famous revelation in comics history is Alan Moore’s “The Anatomy Lesson” where he revealed that Swamp Thing was not a man turned into a swamp monster but a swamp monster who came to believe he was a man. None of the Swamp Thing stories written before that story were written with that revelation in mind, but neither did Moore’s story contradict any of those stories. Revealing that Tim Drake is bisexual was maybe never intended by any of the writers who wrote Tim Drake before but neither does it contradict any of the stories they told.

I honestly don’t want to live in a world where nothing is allowed to happen to a character that wasn’t envisioned at the moment of their creation.

[Drako]

That’s your interpretation of the events in that series, which you are entitled to. But if someone else reads those events (as I and others did back in 2006) as having a romantic subtext, we have to be entitled to that as well. And it certainly can be read that way.

Probably the most famous revelation in comics history is Alan Moore’s “The Anatomy Lesson” where he revealed that Swamp Thing was not a man turned into a swamp monster but a swamp monster who came to believe he was a man. None of the Swamp Thing stories written before that story were written with that revelation in mind, but neither did Moore’s story contradict any of those stories. Revealing that Tim Drake is bisexual was maybe never intended by any of the writers who wrote Tim Drake before but neither does it contradict any of the stories they told.

I honestly don’t want to live in a world where nothing is allowed to happen to a character that wasn’t envisioned at the moment of their creation.

I think you misunderstood me. I never read them as a couple or caught any romantic subtext, but i'm not against Tim being Bi, nor this fact change my view of the character. The New 52 is what damaged the character to me. But i do feel like this change was to try to make him stand out more cause they didn't really know what to do with him for years.

I wouldn't change his sexuality if it was up to me, but the fact that it was changed doesn't bothers me.
The fact that he became Robin again and lost all his growth bothers me.

[Johnny]

it divides the fandom because half of the fandom is so sensitive they cant handle a gay or bisexual character after decades of no representation. also, usually the people who oppose it are the same people who have the same opinions about lgbtq people in real life and are pretty toxic.

Painting people with a broad brush like that does favors to noone. The fandom in general doesn't like when you change the toys they're playing with, for better or worse that's just how it's always been. And if you call people overly sensitive, toxic or bigoted anytime they negatively respond to any of these changes, only makes matters that much worse. Noone can be persuaded to accept something by being insulted or vilified.

[Frontier]

I'm less bothered by Tim being bisexual as I am him off-panel breaking up with Steph to basically hook up with male!Steph just to prove he's bisexual.

[Noodle]

I'm less bothered by Tim being bisexual as I am him off-panel breaking up with Steph to basically hook up with male!Steph just to prove he's bisexual.

100% agree with the off-panel part. Tim and Steph were apart for 14 years. They finally get them back together and then break them up off-panel? At least have the decency to show it.

[Frontier]

100% agree with the off-panel part. Tim and Steph were apart for 14 years. They finally get them back together and then break them up off-panel? At least have the decency to show it.

Especially because it comes off as so sudden after all the development from Tynion's 'Tec to Bendis depicting them as being as strong as ever...and then they break up off-panel.

[Captain Nostalgia]

The positive for me is that the first few entries show a cast of talented writers.

Chip Zdarsky, Tom King, Joshua Williamson, Mark Waid, and a change on Detective Comics (though I cannot comment on Ram V as I have not read his work)

The negative for me if that there are still too many Batman titles and not enough heroes I am interested in to get me buying books, and I have no interest in Dark Crisis (5G Light)

(Normally I would be happy that Constantine has a book, but....it looks sketchy)