Chimney a Constantine HBO MAX series

[Somecrazyaussie]

Maybe Jamie Oliver could play Constantine. He's British and blond.

Nah. He is from Essex. You want to cause a war?

[thwhtGuardian]

Good Lord, you are like a dog with a bone.

The thing with Hollywood is they have this need right now to try to diversify things. Now, diversity is a good thing. But the constant changing of pre-existing characters race, gender etc really needs to stop. It's not the correct way to go about addressing the imbalances that Hollywood itself has created.

The look of John is just as important as the character. It is for any character in existence. If you don't think that, it's cool. But it doesn't mean it isn't true. This looks nothing like the comics. For a comic adaptation, that's a big problem in my book. Hollywood botched it once. Now they are botching it again and there is no other reason other than "because"

Noticed what happened when Matt Ryan was cast? Nobody really complained. Because he had both the look and feel of the character down.

Why does it need to stop?

If the character's race isn't actually important to who the character is what does it hurt?
And you haven't addressed that, you just just keep glossing over it.

Does he need to be white in order to be smarmy?

No.

Does he need to be white to be jaded?

No.

Does he need to be white to be sarcastic?

No.

Does he need to be white to be self centered?

No.

Does he need to be white to be opportunistic?

No.

Does he need to be white to be British?

No.


So then why does John Constantine need to be white?

"Because he always has been!" isn't a particularly good answer as it just limits who can play the role, especially in the face of none of his characteristics being actually tied to be white.

On top of that, is the fact that John Constantine looks the way he does simply because they wanted him to stand out in a world of brightly colored superheroes. His "costume" was that he was an average guy.

Is there anything about being black that means he can't look like an unobtrusive, ordinary person?

[Somecrazyaussie]

Why does it need to stop?

If the character's race isn't actually important to who the character is what does it hurt?
And you haven't addressed that, you just just keep glossing over it.

Does he need to be white in order to be smarmy?

No.

Does he need to be white to be jaded?

No.

Does he need to be white to be sarcastic?

No.

Does he need to be white to be self centered?

No.

Does he need to be white to be opportunistic?

No.

Does he need to be white to be British?

No.


So then why does John Constantine need to be white?

"Because he always has been!" isn't a particularly good answer as it just limits who can play the role, especially in the face of none of his characteristics being actually tied to be white.

On top of that, is the fact that John Constantine looks the way he does simply because they wanted him to stand out in a world of brightly colored superheroes. His "costume" was that he was an average guy.

Is there anything about being black that means he can't look like an unobtrusive, ordinary person?

Mate, you aren't getting the point I'm trying to make. Alan Moore has gone on record saying Constantine only exists because the artists involved (Bissette, Veitch and Totleban) wanted to create a character that looks like Sting. They wanted that to be the visual representation of the character. In a way, it's author intent. That's the look he has always had and that's the look when most fans think of the character.
You say "where does it say he Haas to be white?" Well, I say to you is this: "where does it say he has to be a POC either?" Because it doesn't, does it?

And it does need to stop because you have an abundance of POC characters out there practically sitting on the shelf that nobody is using because they are too busy switching other prominent characters to everything other than what they are supposed to be. It's lazy and being insulting. If you think it's okay to do that to white characters then that borders dangerously close to bigotry. You said it yourself when you practically said that current POC need to remain as they are, yet you are perfectly fine with white characters being switched out. Can you not see what's wrong with that?

Characters should be depicted as they were created. No character should be switched out for anything other than what they are. You may have the same characteristics, but without the same visual look it just isn't Constantine.

This constant back and forth has grown beyond tedious. I've said my piece on the matter and that's that. Best to call it a day and admit that neither of us intends to change their stance on the matter and put the entire argument to bed.

And to the other posters in this thread, my sincere apologies for my part in engaging in this verbal stoush that's clogged it up for a few pages now.

[thwhtGuardian]

Mate, you aren't getting the point I'm trying to make. Alan Moore has gone on record saying Constantine only exists because the artists involved (Bissette, Veitch and Totleban) wanted to create a character that looks like Sting. They wanted that to be the visual representation of the character. In a way, it's author intent. That's the look he has always had and that's the look when most fans think of the character.
You say "where does it say he Haas to be white?" Well, I say to you is this: "where does it say he has to be a POC either?" Because it doesn't, does it?

And it does need to stop because you have an abundance of POC characters out there practically sitting on the shelf that nobody is using because they are too busy switching other prominent characters to everything other than what they are supposed to be. It's lazy and being insulting. If you think it's okay to do that to white characters then that borders dangerously close to bigotry. You said it yourself when you practically said that current POC need to remain as they are, yet you are perfectly fine with white characters being switched out. Can you not see what's wrong with that?

Characters should be depicted as they were created. No character should be switched out for anything other than what they are. You may have the same characteristics, but without the same visual look it just isn't Constantine.

This constant back and forth has grown beyond tedious. I've said my piece on the matter and that's that. Best to call it a day and admit that neither of us intends to change their stance on the matter and put the entire argument to bed.

And to the other posters in this thread, my sincere apologies for my part in engaging in this verbal stoush that's clogged it up for a few pages now.

There's nothing bigoted with allowing people of color to play roles that were traditionally white...I don't get why that's difficult to understand. Being white isn't an important part of Batman, Constantine, Superman...they're that way because that was the default, it doesn't actually inform or shape the character in any way. Where as a character like Luke Cage is very much shaped and informed by his race, with out the racial injustices he suffered he never even becomes Powerman and he wouldn't be doing heroes for hire in Harlem...but if Batman in black he can still have wealthy socialite parents and he's still going to want to become a vigilante after seeing them gunned down as a child.

[Somecrazyaussie]

There's nothing bigoted with allowing people of color to play roles that were traditionally white...I don't get why that's difficult to understand. Being white isn't an important part of Batman, Constantine, Superman...they're that way because that was the default, it doesn't actually inform or shape the character in any way. Where as a character like Luke Cage is very much shaped and informed by his race, with out the racial injustices he suffered he never even becomes Powerman and he wouldn't be doing heroes for hire in Harlem...but if Batman in black he can still have wealthy socialite parents and he's still going to want to become a vigilante after seeing them gunned down as a child.

Because you clearly think it's okay to do that but, if the reverse was true, you'd likely take offense with it. That's why it shouldn't be done. If Hollywood wants to go down that route then ditch those boundaries and open roles up to anyone. You can't have a set of rules for one thing and then have a different set for another. And I say that as a person who is aboriginal.

Now this topic is done. I am putting it to bed. We will agree to disagree.

[thwhtGuardian]

Because you clearly think it's okay to do that but, if the reverse was true, you'd likely take offense with it. That's why it shouldn't be done. If Hollywood wants to go down that route then ditch those boundaries and open roles up to anyone. You can't have a set of rules for one thing and then have a different set for another. And I say that as a person who is aboriginal.

Now this topic is done. I am putting it to bed. We will agree to disagree.

...because the reverse is offensive and does change the character. I literally explained that above. If Luke Cage isn't black then he's not a character inspired by racial injustice, he's not going to be living in Harlem and charging for heroic deeds just to pay the rent...so he's literally not the same character. With Batman or Superman or yes even John Constantine the reverse isn't true; being white doesn't alter anything about their stories. You can be black and still be a strange visor from another world raised by kindly farmers. You can be black and want to be a vigilante after watching your parents murder. And being a sarcastic, self centered bastard who does magic has nothing to do with being white.
On top of that there are limited options for black actors so taking away just one heroic lead role has a big impact, where as there are far more roles available to white actors so not getting to play one character has almost no impact.

It's not a hard concept.

[Somecrazyaussie]

It's offensive to change any skin colour irrespective of the character. It would be offensive to change a black character. It is also offensive to change a white character.

It does make an impact. Whether you see it or not.

Now, I have passed my opinion. You have shared yours. We've said all either of us is going to say on the topic. Just let it rest. For the sake of others in the thread.

[Gaelforce]

Let's put an end to this back-and-forth line of discussion. Opinions have been stated and an impasse reached.

Time for everyone to move on.

[choptop]

https://screenrant.com/contantine-sh...ction-updates/

[choptop]

https://screenrant.com/constantine-s...es-cast-story/

[choptop]

https://screenrant.com/constantine-h...elled-details/

[choptop]

https://screenrant.com/constantine-r...tion-response/

[Robotman]

https://screenrant.com/constantine-r...tion-response/

That’s very sporting of him.

I was not at all looking forward to JJ’s take on Constantine, but I always feel bad for the actors when a big project falls through.

[choptop]

https://screenrant.com/jj-abrams-con...t-show-update/