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  1. #286
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    But it knew when to be serious when it had to be. Every time Ragnarok got to the point where the dramatic tension was about to hit the right notes along came a gag or one-liner. It's reached a point where you know they are coming.

    Ragnarok may have been a funny film. I'm also not disputing it wasn't expertly directed or acted. But it was tonally off.
    Oh, I'm not arguing that Ragnarok didn't screw the dramatic Asgard stuff. I felt the whole film should have been on Sakaar and have had that light caper feel; the Asgard/Hela stuff should have been a separate, much darker film.

  2. #287

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think we can agree in terms of them not adapting the mythos well enough to get people invested enough in it, which I view as a failure on the filmmakers part and how they approached the material.

    The fact that Waititi unceremoniously killed off the Warriors Three just to turn Korg into a comedy relief character screams not really getting what you have to work with. Because, really, if you need comedy relief (with a dash of pathso) in a Thor movie, you should use the Warriors Three. Although Korg is actually Waititi so there's probably some bias there .

    It's like when they had Ganke pal around with Peter Parker in the MCU. Peter Parker has such an extensive supporting cast of characters, he doesn't need to be cribbing an entire character from Miles Morales. But I don't think they even used his supporting cast that well in general in the MCU Spider-Man movies.

    "Space Viking" reminds me too much of Jason Aaron's take on Thor. I guess I should be hoping he won't be yelling about mead the entire movie.
    Oh yeah absolutely! that’s something I’ve been saying for years, but it’s not something I blame Waititi for at all - he was someone who isn’t a comic fan (as far as I know) that probably saw those films and thought they were pretty tired. I’m sure someone would have been able to “save” the franchise with a more comic based take, but I think for the MCU Thor it was better wiping away what was set up and clearing the board the way they did!

    I think it’s more that he was dead set on retiring what was set up previously - I’m sure Sif only got away because the actress wasn’t available to film the movie haha. Volstag and Fandral could have had better deaths (I think Hogun’s was good) for sure, but I don’t think the audience would have had much reaction to it as they were fairly forgettable in the first two movies, so Waititi probably just wanted to move through it quicker. I also think that The Warriors Three aren’t really indicative of Waititi’s type of humour, so using a new character made a lot of sense for him.

    I agree regarding Spider-Man, but at the same time I don’t really mind - I think they just wanted to do something totally different than the movies before it. Not to mention they weren’t allowed to use any Spider-Man other than Peter Parker and the most modern stories featuring a young Spider-Man are Miles Morales ones, so I can see why they stole from it. I’m not a massive Spider-Man fan though so I may not be qualified to comment!

    Haha, I loved the Jason Aaron run, so maybe that’s why I like it!

  3. #288
    Ultimate Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Trailer looks good, although I wasn't a fan of the Thor/Jane romance the first time around, so not thrilled about another go round on that. Hope this time it works better.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  4. #289
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Wonder if (apart from the flashback from the first trailer) they'd have the past and future (King) Thors from the run as well, to maybe tie into the current Multiverse storyline somehow.
    I think Valkyrie and Jane are meant to be standing in for the other Thors.
    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    Oh, I'm not arguing that Ragnarok didn't screw the dramatic Asgard stuff. I felt the whole film should have been on Sakaar and have had that light caper feel; the Asgard/Hela stuff should have been a separate, much darker film.
    If they were going to set it on Sakaar they may as well have just made it a proper Planet Hulk film.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    Oh yeah absolutely! that’s something I’ve been saying for years, but it’s not something I blame Waititi for at all - he was someone who isn’t a comic fan (as far as I know) that probably saw those films and thought they were pretty tired. I’m sure someone would have been able to “save” the franchise with a more comic based take, but I think for the MCU Thor it was better wiping away what was set up and clearing the board the way they did!
    I personally think you should use what you have instead of erase everything, especially if it's a foundational part of the character you're using, but I'm biased as a comic fan.

    I'm not sure if Waitii isn't a comic fan but I don't think he was a fan of Thors' comics at least.
    I think it’s more that he was dead set on retiring what was set up previously - I’m sure Sif only got away because the actress wasn’t available to film the movie haha. Volstag and Fandral could have had better deaths (I think Hogun’s was good) for sure, but I don’t think the audience would have had much reaction to it as they were fairly forgettable in the first two movies, so Waititi probably just wanted to move through it quicker. I also think that The Warriors Three aren’t really indicative of Waititi’s type of humour, so using a new character made a lot of sense for him.
    Volstagg and Fandral's deaths were awful. They were just unceremoniously offed with no fanfare or even getting to put up a fight (Hogun did because they couldn't get Sif and he sat out Dark World) and it didn't even up the stakes at all because they were probably a non-entity for the audience by that point. So was there even a point? They could have just as easily have helped with the Asgardian refugees alongside Heimdall. Then again they probably would have died in Infinity War like he did. But maybe then Thor would've actually cared about their deaths.

    I feel like the Three are versatile enough that Waititi could've come up with something with them, but he just didn't care.
    I agree regarding Spider-Man, but at the same time I don’t really mind - I think they just wanted to do something totally different than the movies before it. Not to mention they weren’t allowed to use any Spider-Man other than Peter Parker and the most modern stories featuring a young Spider-Man are Miles Morales ones, so I can see why they stole from it. I’m not a massive Spider-Man fan though so I may not be qualified to comment!
    Well, there's the original Ultimate Spider-Man run and even the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon for young Peter content, so I think there were other options available than straight up lifting from Miles.
    Haha, I loved the Jason Aaron run, so maybe that’s why I like it!
    I definitely feel like if you were a fan of the run the movie will probably hit better for you.

  5. #290
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Looking forward to this. Phase 4 has been mostly a dud to me outside of Spider-Man and Wandavision which stand as the only material I've truly loved so far. I really liked Ragnarok so I'm hoping Waititi nails it this time around

  6. #291
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Do you really believe this?

    I can't imagine that you or anyone really does.
    ((raises hand))

    I do.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  7. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    ((raises hand))

    I do.
    Did you also believe it when the Hulk was shown in the trailer for Ragnarok?

  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBG82 View Post

    You sound like you want dour. Dour isn't fun, the world doesn't need dour right now. The Batman was dour. And boring AF.

    You say you want your hero to be taken seriously. But life doesn't always take people seriously. Sometimes even the most stoic and straight laced are in an elevator when someone farts. Not necessarily funny, but real. We all find ourselves out of our depth from time to time. And sometimes all you can do is laugh. Particularly when the alternative might be breaking under the stress.
    Quoted for truth. And agree - the Batman was dour and boring.

  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post

    The Batman may have been a very dark and serious film but considering how much of a box office and critical success it was it seems like it's approach was equally valid.
    At this point, a Batman movie is going to make money no matter what as long as it doesn't blatantly offend anyone. I don't think it's any surprise for it to be a box office success.

    And then there are the true critics, that make there living on reviewing material. Typically, and without fail, the movie these critics rank highly are some of the most "shake my head" movies for me. I used to use their reviews to help me decide what movies to avoid.

    While I appreciate the movie having a different approach, it was probably too serious for its own good. Most Marvel movies, I can (and have) rewatched again - I'd be interested in how many return trips this movie receives. Once was enough for me!

  10. #295

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    I think there’s definitely room for “darker” stories in the MCU, but at the same time I’m not clamouring for it. I’m a big fan of colourful space adventures, so this movie in particular looks great to me. I don’t know how I’d feel about a Northman style Thor movie hahaha

    In fact, I think the “darker/maturer” approach to the X-Men movies damaged the brand in the long run. Some characters really benefit from that kind of approach (Batman clearly has) but I can’t think of any of the current MCU characters that would have. That’s not to say it’s impossible, but there are other types of movies that scratch the art house/maturity itch for me that aren’t shackled to continuity, licensing, iconography, and canon. They’re alright, but in truth, I haven’t ever been surprised by darker superhero adaptations, but I am pretty consistently surprised by how much I enjoy the brighter entries!

    Obviously it’s different for everyone - and there should be options for everyone - so I understand when people are annoyed when the MCU doesn’t go far into the adult territories, because that’s what some people enjoy from movies more so

    Eventually the pendulum will swing the other way though, so just wait a bit and I’m sure those types of adaptations will be in production
    Last edited by Jack The Tripper; 05-25-2022 at 10:42 AM.

  11. #296
    Astonishing Member Godzilla2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obatalla View Post
    So this is a lady Thor/Valk movie with thor as the butt of jokes for 2 hours? Ok.
    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Do you really believe this?

    I can't imagine that you or anyone really does.
    (Raises Hand)

    I do as well. That's pretty much the theme of his movies. Trying to find himself and being the butt of those jokes. He's a safe target.
    Last edited by Godzilla2099; 05-25-2022 at 11:25 AM.

  12. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    I think there’s definitely room for “darker” stories in the MCU, but at the same time I’m not clamouring for it. I’m a big fan of colourful space adventures, so this movie in particular looks great to me. I don’t know how I’d feel about a Northman style Thor movie hahaha
    Ugh, don't even joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    In fact, I think the “darker/maturer” approach to the X-Men movies damaged the brand in the long run.
    One thing I think the X-Men movies lacked that was a major appeal in the comics was the slice of life type stuff. In the comics, you really got to know them as people first. I feel that in the original movies they were so busy with their constant adventuring we never really got to know them that well with the exceptions of Charles, Eric, and Logan.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  13. #298
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wleakr View Post
    Quoted for truth. And agree - the Batman was dour and boring.
    Quote Originally Posted by wleakr View Post
    At this point, a Batman movie is going to make money no matter what as long as it doesn't blatantly offend anyone. I don't think it's any surprise for it to be a box office success.

    And then there are the true critics, that make there living on reviewing material. Typically, and without fail, the movie these critics rank highly are some of the most "shake my head" movies for me. I used to use their reviews to help me decide what movies to avoid.

    While I appreciate the movie having a different approach, it was probably too serious for its own good. Most Marvel movies, I can (and have) rewatched again - I'd be interested in how many return trips this movie receives. Once was enough for me!
    Well, it's hard to make a Superhero movie about hunting down a serial killer joyful and fun (just imagine if in the Long Halloween Batman was constantly spouting quips), but it's definitely not something I could've seen DisMarvel doing (rather, they'd make the serial killers the protagonist! (Cough)Hawkeye(Cough)).

    But I think the overall quality of the film, it's story, message, and cast did as much for it as the overall Batman brand did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    I think there’s definitely room for “darker” stories in the MCU, but at the same time I’m not clamouring for it. I’m a big fan of colourful space adventures, so this movie in particular looks great to me. I don’t know how I’d feel about a Northman style Thor movie hahaha

    In fact, I think the “darker/maturer” approach to the X-Men movies damaged the brand in the long run. Some characters really benefit from that kind of approach (Batman clearly has) but I can’t think of any of the current MCU characters that would have. That’s not to say it’s impossible, but there are other types of movies that scratch the art house/maturity itch for me that aren’t shackled to continuity, licensing, iconography, and canon. They’re alright, but in truth, I haven’t ever been surprised by darker superhero adaptations, but I am pretty consistently surprised by how much I enjoy the brighter entries!

    Obviously it’s different for everyone - and there should be options for everyone - so I understand when people are annoyed when the MCU doesn’t go far into the adult territories, because that’s what some people enjoy from movies more so

    Eventually the pendulum will swing the other way though, so just wait a bit and I’m sure those types of adaptations will be in production
    When I think of darker Thor stories I think of the stuff by Peter Milligan and Paul Jenkins (most of which were collected in the Thor: Trial of Thor trade).

    I'm not saying Thor needs to be dark even if personality-wise he's a little more serious than Hemsworth plays him.

    Hulk can be a much darker character than the MCU ended up portraying him as given they've never really mined Banners' alternate personalities or emotional trauma or the cost of being The Hulk has done for him in favor of dabbing Professor Hulk. Like I can't see the MCU ever doing something like Immortal Hulk in all it's cosmic horror and ambiguity.

    Moon Knight got pretty dark. I guess Daredevil is one but we don't know how they're going to approach him in his own show.

    Spider-Man can get pretty dark depending on the interpretation, and they lean into that in adaptions sometimes. I remember how dark Peter David's stuff could get when he was still using the black suit.

  14. #299

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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    Ugh, don't even joke.



    One thing I think the X-Men movies lacked that was a major appeal in the comics was the slice of life type stuff. In the comics, you really got to know them as people first. I feel that in the original movies they were so busy with their constant adventuring we never really got to know them that well with the exceptions of Charles, Eric, and Logan.
    To be fair, I wish we saw that a bit more with the Avengers movies - but GOTG, Thor, and Shang Chi give me more than enough hope that the MCU X-Men and F4 will make efforts to make them seem more of a family!

  15. #300

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    Fair enough!!

    In regards to Hemsworth, I think that’s why I like this current MCU Thor more than before - he didn’t play serious well imo, his comedic acting is tonnes better, and I think you can tell he enjoys it, which makes his dramatic moments better!

    I think following Doctor Strange 2 I’m more convinced that they might get around to immortal hulk at some point. Maybe not as gruesome, but I think we might be getting there (as long as Universal allow Disney to do hulk focussed projects). What they’ve done with the hulk so far is clearly a by product of them not getting the opportunity to do any real stories focussed on him, which sucks, but we kinda just have to wait until distribution rights are sorted out?

    Yeah, MK got quite dark, and I think it’ll only get darker going forward. DD I’m actually more excited to see some Waid/Samnee style brightness to the character. 3 seasons of the show being pretty bleak we’re probably enough for me! And I felt NWH got pretty dark for Spider-Man. I wouldn’t mind seeing more of that for him in future movies, which I guess is set up for him by NWH’s end

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