Thor: Love And Thunder 'Here There Be Spoilers'

[James Cameron]

I’m not making up anything nor putting any words in your mouth. You said Marvel should take a year long break. That was you.

What do you think would happen if any studio actually did that? It’s a simple question.

For the record I don’t think you want people to lose work. You just didn’t think about what the consequences of your idea would be. It’s an honest oversight with no malice on your part. No harm no foul. Just maybe think these things through a bit more next time.

So that's what the world is now? We create hypothetical scenarios of the fallout of every opinion we disagree with to try and say that person is problematic? Are you serious? You sound like a cop. Keep this pretentiousness for yourself and I'll make a point never to interact with you again.

[wleakr]

So that's what the world is now? We create hypothetical scenarios of the fallout of every opinion we disagree with to try and say that person is problematic? Are you serious? You sound like a cop. Keep this pretentiousness for yourself and I'll make a point never to interact with you again.

Sounds like you have an issue with most things Marvel. But that could be hypothetical.

[James Cameron]

Sounds like you have an issue with most things Marvel. But that could be hypothetical.

I love Marvel, but yeah I'm not a fan of the films, it's sad that the weirdly creative and expressive nature of the source material often gets lost in these adaptations that are essentially SNL parodies. I also see how these movies could be much bigger and memorable if they didn't feel so rushed. That's why I think if Marvel took a decent amount of time to focus on craft over content there could be much better movies that are rewarding to all kinds of fans. That's just my opinion though and it's clearly not the popular one in this thread

[HollowSage]

So that's what the world is now? We create hypothetical scenarios of the fallout of every opinion we disagree with to try and say that person is problematic? Are you serious? You sound like a cop. Keep this pretentiousness for yourself and I'll make a point never to interact with you again.

I never said YOU were problematic. I said your idea was problematic, which it is. There is a difference.

[HollowSage]

I love Marvel, but yeah I'm not a fan of the films, it's sad that the weirdly creative and expressive nature of the source material often gets lost in these adaptations that are essentially SNL parodies. I also see how these movies could be much bigger and memorable if they didn't feel so rushed. That's why I think if Marvel took a decent amount of time to focus on craft over content there could be much better movies that are rewarding to all kinds of fans. That's just my opinion though and it's clearly not the popular one in this thread

Now that gets your point across much better than your previous attempt. I’m not a big fan of hyperbole but some people can’t resist. I still don’t agree with you about the quality of the movies but this is a decent argument for your opinion. Well done.

[Rincewind]

I mean, of course it was melodramatic, they were mining it for drama which made their final fight more poignant and meaningful. But the scenes before the reveal of Loki's schemes like in the meeting before they attack the Frost Giants or even in the sequel when they're talking about Frigga's deaths, they feel like proper brothers considering the circumstances of their relationship.

I don't think "emotional maturity" was lacking in their relationship prior to Ragnarok (although I agree they were being pretty self-aware in that scene) besides Loki's jealousy of Thor driving part of his motivation, but I was thinking of them talking about their experiences as kids, Thor exposing Loki, and their handling of Loki on Sakaar. The scene that felt most genuine to me was the one on the ship at the end before Thanos attacked.

The melodrama did not come off as poignant or meaningful to me. It came of as cheesy to me.

I have the same dislike for melodrama that you have for comedy. The difference is that the comedy of Ragnarok is much more critically and commercially successful than the melodrama of Thor and The Dark World.

[Nate Grey]

Should there be a new thread to discuss the movie when it comes out or do we just keep this one going?

I think its one of those wait and see scenarios. If we get people coming in here once a day talking about the movie, no. Once every 1-2 hours, YES cause at that point its getting in the way of people who just want to talk about their thoughts about the movie/franchise until they can see it themselves.

[Jack The Tripper]

I never understood spoil threads after a movie is out it's a free for all if you don't want to be spoiled that's you're responsible.

I just don’t think it’s that big of a deal honestly. It’s not exactly difficult to make a new thread; release dates are different all around the world, people still want to talk about a movie before they see it, not everybody gets to see it at the same time etc etc.

We’re not in some Mad Max type scenario where it’s every man for himself or anything haha, a spoilers thread is just a bit of an easy way to make sure people are still able to talk about a big film without having it spoiled after being released for 2 hours in another country or time zone.

[wleakr]

I just don’t think it’s that big of a deal honestly. It’s not exactly difficult to make a new thread; release dates are different all around the world, people still want to talk about a movie before they see it, not everybody gets to see it at the same time etc etc.

We’re not in some Mad Max type scenario where it’s every man for himself or anything haha, a spoilers thread is just a bit of an easy way to make sure people are still able to talk about a big film without having it spoiled after being released for 2 hours in another country or time zone.

All this discussion - why not just make the spoiler thread? I don't think it's a big deal either way, but for those that want it, just make it!

[Jack The Tripper]

All this discussion - why not just make the spoiler thread? I don't think it's a big deal either way, but for those that want it, just make it!

My thoughts exactly

[phonogram12]

I know but I don't think that means there weren't legitimate criticisms of the movie.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that the movie's portrayal of their relationship wasn't entirely legitimate in and of itself.

I think they came off genuinely as brothers in the prior films, at least in the context of their situation, while Ragnarok played it more for comedy.

IMHO, they came off more as rivals in previous films who barely even really seemed to tolerate each other. In Ragnarok they actually portrayed that they actually used to like each other at some point.

That's actually my biggest problem with this new outfit. That helmet is atrocious! Give me the winged helmet any day!

The problem with being too comic accurate.

[Frontier]

Sure, but that doesn't mean that the movie's portrayal of their relationship wasn't entirely legitimate in and of itself.

Maybe in a standalone sense but collectively...I'm not so sure.

IMHO, they came off more as rivals in previous films who barely even really seemed to tolerate each other. In Ragnarok they actually portrayed that they actually used to like each other at some point.

Their position and Loki's own POV saw them as rivals but I think it was obvious Thor genuinely loved and cared for him as a brother even in the first film when he took it so hard when Loki turned evil and why he didn't automatically suspect him. Like Thor was perfectly happy to bring Loki along and bask in the glory and never suspected his own brother was manipulating him until he found out what was going on in Asgard.

Then we have Avengers and The Dark World where Loki's crimes and the people he's hurt has believably strained their relationship.

[phonogram12]

Maybe in a standalone sense but collectively...I'm not so sure.

I'll have to disagree with you on that one, but you see what you want to see.

Their position and Loki's own POV saw them as rivals but I think it was obvious Thor genuinely loved and cared for him as a brother even in the first film when he took it so hard when Loki turned evil and why he didn't automatically suspect him. Like Thor was perfectly happy to bring Loki along and bask in the glory and never suspected his own brother was manipulating him until he found out what was going on in Asgard.

Which was kind of stupid of Thor considering Loki didn't really seem to have one nice thing to say about him.

Then we have Avengers and The Dark World where Loki's crimes and the people he's hurt has believably strained their relationship.

Was it really believable, though? Or was Thor just completely written as completely oblivious prior?

The melodrama did not come off as poignant or meaningful to me. It came of as cheesy to me.

I have the same dislike for melodrama that you have for comedy. The difference is that the comedy of Ragnarok is much more critically and commercially successful than the melodrama of Thor and The Dark World.

Agreed.

[Frontier]

The melodrama did not come off as poignant or meaningful to me. It came of as cheesy to me.

I have the same dislike for melodrama that you have for comedy. The difference is that the comedy of Ragnarok is much more critically and commercially successful than the melodrama of Thor and The Dark World.

I never said I disliked comedy. It all really comes down to the execution and what's appropriate, and at times I felt the comedy in Ragnarok was really out-of-place and not really necessary, but to each their own.

Emphasizing the comedy seems to be the Marvel Studios means to success for the most part.

I didn't view it as melodrama, at least in the first Thor movie, so much as genuine human drama and pathos. But I guess comedy is easier to sell sometimes (see Eternals).

Speaking of comedy, why did we kill off the Warriors Three again? Who needs Korg when you have Volstagg?

Which was kind of stupid of Thor considering Loki didn't really seem to have one nice thing to say about him.

He was kind of sarcastic and sassy but I think it says a lot that Thor took it in good faith.

Was it really believable, though? Or was Thor just completely written as completely oblivious prior?

I didn't get the sense that Loki had ever indicated the kind of stunts he pulled in the movies and beyond, which is why they were so shocked. Loki thought he was the black sheep but Thor and Odin genuinely loved him as family and he basically rejected it all until the very end of his life.

[Jack The Tripper]

Speaking of comedy, why did we kill off the Warriors Three again? Who needs Korg when you have Volstagg?

I think the simplest answer is that Waititi didn’t see those characters adding anything to what he was going for. Korg is a very different style of comedy to the Warrior’s Three we were introduced to in the previous films; more traditional type of comedy in contrast to his more modern style of comedy. Apart from Thor, he clearly wasn’t too interested in re-vitalising/changing characters we had already been introduced to - Heimdal, Hogun, and Loki were all pretty similar as to how we saw them previously - so I reckon he was just getting rid of the parts that fit in with his vision the least.

Both Fandral and Volstagg clash with Waititi’s sensibilities the most imo (again, probably due to their traditional Shakespearean characterisation) so I just think he thought they didn’t add a lot to what he was going for. I think he really looked at the first two films and just decided to nix whatever didn’t work for him - I doubt he thought many would miss them

Obviously, for story reasons, it makes sense to kill some known characters off - there’s not much point in a Ragnarok if no one of note dies

On top of that, the whole movie was basically a way to reset Thor and give him a new supporting cast - unfortunately they felt it necessary for the Warriors Three to bite the bullet!

Overall, although some may have found it disappointing, I don’t think Waititi was considering how well they’ve been utilised in the comics, but just saw them as waste of plot in the previous movies, and so saw them as canon fodder in order to bring in his rendition of Thor. Personally I think it’s a valid direction to go, and I’m happy we got Korg out of it