Page 15 of 28 FirstFirst ... 511121314151617181925 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 225 of 419
  1. #211
    The Kid 80sbaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    1,581

    Default

    Re-purposing words and weaponizing them isn't something new. Unfortunately, it's just a lot easier to do since we're more connected.

    In this case, it's the word "agenda" which shouldn't be viewed as inherently bad. There's nothing wrong with a creator for a specific purpose, even if it's a "political" or social issue. It's all about the execution. And if certain people would actually discuss their problem with the execution, as opposed to the mere fact there was an agenda, then it'd be easier to take their complaints seriously.

  2. #212
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    With the Orishas
    Posts
    9,746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 80sbaby View Post
    Re-purposing words and weaponizing them isn't something new. Unfortunately, it's just a lot easier to do since we're more connected.

    In this case, it's the word "agenda" which shouldn't be viewed as inherently bad. There's nothing wrong with a creator for a specific purpose, even if it's a "political" or social issue. It's all about the execution. And if certain people would actually discuss their problem with the execution, as opposed to the mere fact there was an agenda, then it'd be easier to take their complaints seriously.
    Exactly.

    If the implementation of said "agenda" was poor or questionable then a reasonable discussion could be had. I've been fairly critical of how certain social or political issues have been depicted in media but that's in the implementation and not the actual agenda. I really don't have issues with entertainment that has a message (so far the message isn't hate speech or outright incitement), it's been like that for a fairly long while and isn't going to stop anytime soon.

    The problem is that today some people for no apparent reason at all simply label stuff as having an agenda and start to rail against it. None of the MCU series so far have sidelined the "main character" for agenda purposes, so when these agenda discussions come up it becomes a little unsettling. It's now spilling into the territory of people not wanting to see women or minorities have prominent roles in these series which is now a much larger discussion of a much larger problem.

  3. #213
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,538

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    And she got all the backstory and one of the main emotional arcs. Not that Clint didn't have at least an arc, but they actually cut a scene of backstory for him.

    They also connected one of the pivotal figures in Clint's life, Swordsman, to Kate.
    When was the last time Swordsman was relevant to Clint in the comics?

  4. #214
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Running Springs, California
    Posts
    8,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Catlady in training View Post
    If people were so against formulaic patterns, they would have given up on MCU after like 3 movies.
    So true. Heck they would have given up on books some time in the 1800s and given up on movies sometime in the 1940s. Most all consumed entertainment is the same plots over and over with different window dressing. Its all about execution and presentation, and Disney obliterates with both of those factors.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  5. #215
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    87,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inisideguy View Post
    And that was great. Cause Kate in the MCU is like 50 times more interesting than Hawkeye. And I don't have anything against Hawkeye. Using these other heroes to introduce new ones is the perfect way to do things.
    I mean, it doesn't help that she made her more like classic Hawkeye than MCU Clint's ever been.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    When was the last time Swordsman was relevant to Clint in the comics?
    Hawkeye: Generations one-shot?

  6. #216
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Saint Ann, MO
    Posts
    4,396

    Default

    The MCU Hawkeye has always been based off of the Ultimates version of Hawkeye. They said that from day one. And I don't recall Swordsman ever being in the Ultimates line, let alone tied to Clint.

    And the MCU has a history of changing characters to fit the story they want to tell. Just look at Iron Man 3. Or Taskmaster in Black Widow. Or Zemo in Civil War (which they did change retroactively in FatWS to be closer to the character from the comics). Hell, you can go all the way back to Iron Man and J.A.R.V.I.S.

    They have also shown a willingness to use characters as red herrings to throw off fans- like they did with Jack in Hawkeye, or The Mandarin in Iron Man 3, or Ralph 'Pietro' Bohner in WandaVision.

  7. #217
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    87,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    The MCU Hawkeye has always been based off of the Ultimates version of Hawkeye. They said that from day one. And I don't recall Swordsman ever being in the Ultimates line, let alone tied to Clint.

    And the MCU has a history of changing characters to fit the story they want to tell. Just look at Iron Man 3. Or Taskmaster in Black Widow. Or Zemo in Civil War (which they did change retroactively in FatWS to be closer to the character from the comics). Hell, you can go all the way back to Iron Man and J.A.R.V.I.S.

    They have also shown a willingness to use characters as red herrings to throw off fans- like they did with Jack in Hawkeye, or The Mandarin in Iron Man 3, or Ralph 'Pietro' Bohner in WandaVision.
    Yeah, but it feels like a waste a lot of the time.

  8. #218
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,538

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, it doesn't help that she made her more like classic Hawkeye than MCU Clint's ever been.

    Hawkeye: Generations one-shot?
    Wasn't Kate in that issue?

  9. #219
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    9,008

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Wasn't Kate in that issue?
    Yeah, it was team-up with her and Clint.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  10. #220
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    87,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Wasn't Kate in that issue?
    Yeah, but his relationship to Swordsman was relevant.

  11. #221
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,538

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, but his relationship to Swordsman was relevant.
    Only as a guy Clint knew and didn’t trust.

    Swordsman s a minor characterist from Hawkeye”s history. His biggest contribution of training Clint was retconned over to Trickshot in the 80s. Swordsman”s most memorable moment in the comics was dying, having his body taken over by plant, and marrying his Vietnamese ex prostitute girlfriend.

    Kate”s story had a sword carrying red herring. So her story gets Swordsman. Clint”s story had a couple of vengeance obsessed badasses and a criminal that can scare an Avenger. So his story gets Echo, Yelena, and Kingpin. The MCU has never been about introducing the exact histories and relationships from the 616 comics. Major characters get updated and minor characters get introduced when the story has a need.

  12. #222
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    87,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Only as a guy Clint knew and didn’t trust.

    Swordsman s a minor characterist from Hawkeye”s history. His biggest contribution of training Clint was retconned over to Trickshot in the 80s. Swordsman”s most memorable moment in the comics was dying, having his body taken over by plant, and marrying his Vietnamese ex prostitute girlfriend.

    Kate”s story had a sword carrying red herring. So her story gets Swordsman. Clint”s story had a couple of vengeance obsessed badasses and a criminal that can scare an Avenger. So his story gets Echo, Yelena, and Kingpin. The MCU has never been about introducing the exact histories and relationships from the 616 comics. Major characters get updated and minor characters get introduced when the story has a need.
    Also to parallel a mentor/mentee relationship and how Clint has grown from his experience with Jacques.

    I mean, I get why they did it, but with how little they did with Clint beyond what was already established in the MCU, giving a significant background character for him to his protege felt like a bit much to me.

  13. #223

    Default

    Pretty lame they need four solo Thor films for the character to "figure himself out." Lame, unimaginative storytelling and weak characterization. I did not enjoy the Ragnarok movie, doubt I'll be watching this.

  14. #224
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    87,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HaveAtThee View Post
    Pretty lame they need four solo Thor films for the character to "figure himself out." Lame, unimaginative storytelling and weak characterization. I did not enjoy the Ragnarok movie, doubt I'll be watching this.
    Well, with how all over the place his characterization has been in the past few movies, is it any wonder he needs to figure himself out?

  15. #225
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Saint Ann, MO
    Posts
    4,396

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Also to parallel a mentor/mentee relationship and how Clint has grown from his experience with Jacques.

    I mean, I get why they did it, but with how little they did with Clint beyond what was already established in the MCU, giving a significant background character for him to his protege felt like a bit much to me.
    I look at it like this.

    Jeremy Renner is in his 50s now. His time in the MCU is rapidly coming to an end. He's gotten a fair bit of characterization over the span of 5 or 6 movies. Meanwhile, Hailee Steinfeld is in her 20's, she'll probably be around for a while, so they want to start building her character as much as possible here (especially since it's really not known when she'll be seen again). So giving her one of Clint's background characters seems to be a good idea.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •