Thor: Love And Thunder 'Here There Be Spoilers'

[Maestro 216]

Less is more I agree.

[thjan]

I honestly don't understand the mixed reaction to this film. I think it is a really fun and entertaining movie with a lot of heart, laughs, and interesting developments. I especially don't understand the people who loved Ragnarok, but dislike this film for the humor and tonal shifts. Ragnarok had just as much humor, and saying this even though I am still a fan of it, was much more egregious about its humor undercutting the more dramatic moments(off the top of my head the ball to the head moment after his inspiring speech to Valkyrie and the Korg line after the destruction of Asgard). Love and Thunder was much better about separating the funny and more dramatic parts and letting scenes breath more in my opinion, and Gorr was a darker and more serious villain than Hela(again I do love Ragnarok still). L&T is actually my favorite Thor movie after the first one and one of my favorite MCU movies now.

Honestly, what is a Thor purist these days? Aarons’s beer swilling barbarian bears so little resemblance to Lee and Kirby’s hammer wielding cosmic Paladin, or even Simonson’s mythologically-rooted noble Viking, that it’s barely even the same character.

I guess I would be one of those Thor purists lol. I have not been a fan of the comics version of Thor for a long time. It started with Fraction's portrayel, but yeah, Aaron's beer swilling barbarian(perfect description by the way), is what really lost me. I did not finish the Gorr storyline in the comics and have never read the Jane as Thor issues. From what I have heard of both the movie does a much better job with Gorr and Jane's arcs and storylines and gives much more respect to Thor than Aaron ever did(especially by not making him unworthy).

As for the movie version of Thor and being a purist in that sense, yeah the movies have definitely gone in a much different direction with the character in comparison to his intro movie. I think the success of the quipy Avengers movies and the Guardians of the Galaxy pretty much cemented the overall more humorous and silly tone of the MCU and the Thor and Guardians movies are especially leaning into that which I don't have a big problem with. I guess the difference for me would be that I still like the character and the direction he has gone in unlike the direction he went in the comics. It is very much a departure from the more serious and more early comic accurate Thor of the the first two Thor movies which I also love, but I am okay with it and can enjoy this more humorous, but still powerful and interesting Thor of the current movies.

[Matt Rat]

I honestly don't understand the mixed reaction to this film.

I don't understand positive reactions to about 75% of any Marvel movie, but them's the breaks.

[Wandering_Wand]

I don't understand positive reactions to about 75% of any Marvel movie, but them's the breaks.

Honestly, this is where I'm at myself. I really think the core audience and fans are hanging on and these are still seen as "event" films. Let's also count the people who go just to see the mid and post credits scenes so they can map out the next phase.
That's not saying all of the recent ones are duds, though. I enjoyed Shang Chi but probably won't re-watch it. Other than that one, nothing is really standing out to me for the MCU in this latest phase.

[Username taken]

The Thor estimates keep going up. Its going to open to around $300m WW.

I dont know how it will hold up though. That B+ cinemascore doesn't guarantee great legs. It should end up with $800m+ which is huge but it could have been more if it had been better received.

[inisideguy]

The Thor estimates keep going up. Its going to open to around $300m WW.

I dont know how it will hold up though. That B+ cinemascore doesn't guarantee great legs. It should end up with $800m+ which is huge but it could have been more if it had been better received.

Its got nothing opening up against it thats big for a long time. If it makes over 800 million its a big win, without China or Russia. The last one made over 100 million in China.

[ZeroBG82]

Ok, so Monty Python parody tone aside, I have real problems with the plot. Here's my two biggest

1) Gorr. His motivation wavers. He's either pissed that there is no afterlife, no "eternal reward," or that the gods don't protect their mortal followers.

But. As an audience, we know, FOR A FACT, that he's wrong about the afterlife in the MCU. Because we've seen it (Moon Knight). So he's just flat out wrong and that makes his motivation weak and cheap.

Or. His entire plan rests on a god doing the thing hd's angry that gods don't do. If Thor doesn't come to rescue the children his whole plan falls apart. So... he's mad that gods don't protect people, but has built his entire scheme on a god doing just that. With no self awareness at all.

2) Thor. His petty, arrogant need for vengeance against Thanos claims ANOTHER victim. Natasha and Tony already had to die to undo one genocide it caused. (And, arguably, Vision as well, who could have been revived by the Time stone. And, thus, the Scarlet Witch even being born is also Thor's fault.) But now Jane also has to die to prevent a second genocide of Thor's making.

Remember, with Odin and Heimdall dead, and Asgard destroyed, he power of the Bifrost was lost to the universe until Thor forged Stormbreaker. Gorr couldn't have ever reached Eternity without Thor's hubris.

So that's effectively five dead Avengers thanks to this guy.

Bonus: And finally, why is Eternity chilling at the center of the universe waiting to grant wishes like a genie?

[HollowSage]

Ok, so Monty Python parody tone aside, I have real problems with the plot. Here's my two biggest

1) Gorr. His motivation wavers. He's either pissed that there is no afterlife, no "eternal reward," or that the gods don't protect their mortal followers.

But. As an audience, we know, FOR A FACT, that he's wrong about the afterlife in the MCU. Because we've seen it (Moon Knight). So he's just flat out wrong and that makes his motivation weak and cheap.

Or. His entire plan rests on a god doing the thing hd's angry that gods don't do. If Thor doesn't come to rescue the children his whole plan falls apart. So... he's mad that gods don't protect people, but has built his entire scheme on a god doing just that. With no self awareness at all.

2) Thor. His petty, arrogant need for vengeance against Thanos claims ANOTHER victim. Natasha and Tony already had to die to undo one genocide it caused. (And, arguably, Vision as well, who could have been revived by the Time stone. And, thus, the Scarlet Witch even being born is also Thor's fault.) But now Jane also has to die to prevent a second genocide of Thor's making.

Remember, with Odin and Heimdall dead, and Asgard destroyed, he power of the Bifrost was lost to the universe until Thor forged Stormbreaker. Gorr couldn't have ever reached Eternity without Thor's hubris.

So that's effectively five dead Avengers thanks to this guy.

Bonus: And finally, why is Eternity chilling at the center of the universe waiting to grant wishes like a genie?

1. Most Villains are wrong. Thanos was also wrong. His plan didn’t make the universe better. Not sure why you are calling out Gor for having weak and cheap motivations. That’s kinda what makes a villain a villain.

2. WTF? How are you blaming Thor for five dead Avengers? Did I miss a movie somewhere? Please explain because that makes no sense.

[thjan]

I don't understand positive reactions to about 75% of any Marvel movie, but them's the breaks.

And that is a legit opinion to hold and I don't fault anyone for feeling that way. There are lots of things in comics and movies where I don't understand the positive reactions to(like the success of Bendis, Aaron, and other "big name" comic writers that butcher mythos, characters, and franchises), but that is why I avoid those writers or movie franchises I don't enjoy and don't continue reading or going to see them expecting something else. At this point I feel like people should broadly know what they are getting with a MCU movie. We are 20 something movies in at this point(or more?) and I don't understand why people are expecting and disappointed about not getting more from them. Marvel likes making movies that are just fun entertainment for a couple hours and I don't know what is wrong with that. And with this Thor movie in particular people should have had an idea what was coming based on Taika being the director(and based on Ragnarok which like I said pretty much had the same tone), and based on the trailers which did not try to disguise the nature of the film at all.

Ok, so Monty Python parody tone aside, I have real problems with the plot. Here's my two biggest

1) Gorr. His motivation wavers. He's either pissed that there is no afterlife, no "eternal reward," or that the gods don't protect their mortal followers.

But. As an audience, we know, FOR A FACT, that he's wrong about the afterlife in the MCU. Because we've seen it (Moon Knight). So he's just flat out wrong and that makes his motivation weak and cheap.

His planet's god point blank told him there was no afterlife for the regular people at the beginning of the movie(whether that was really true, who knows?). But Gorr certainly believed and was explicitly told that his faith in the gods was for naught. Also, we might know there is an afterlife, but I don't see why ALL the characters in the movies would know that. The only people actually seeing these afterlifes are characters that have actually died or extraordinary characters that would see things the common people would never end up seeing or in most likelihood believing.

Or. His entire plan rests on a god doing the thing hd's angry that gods don't do. If Thor doesn't come to rescue the children his whole plan falls apart. So... he's mad that gods don't protect people, but has built his entire scheme on a god doing just that. With no self awareness at all.

But those children were Asgardian or "god" children in Gorr's eyes, not regular people or even followers. He likely thinks and has seen even the lowest gods like to defend their own that are the very closest to them(like Zeus said each pantheon protects their own not others).

2) Thor. His petty, arrogant need for vengeance against Thanos claims ANOTHER victim. Natasha and Tony already had to die to undo one genocide it caused. (And, arguably, Vision as well, who could have been revived by the Time stone. And, thus, the Scarlet Witch even being born is also Thor's fault.) But now Jane also has to die to prevent a second genocide of Thor's making.

Not sure how any of that was Thor's fault at all. I don't want to get into the old and tired "should have gone for the head", it's Thor's fault not Thanos' fault, debate at this point, but I especially don't understand how Jane's death was his fault when she was already dying of cancer(and according to Selvig, nothing was working), and she chose to pick up the hammer again. One thing that was common through all these stories was that Thor was doing his very best and putting his all into his efforts to save people and defeat Thanos and Gorr.

Remember, with Odin and Heimdall dead, and Asgard destroyed, he power of the Bifrost was lost to the universe until Thor forged Stormbreaker. Gorr couldn't have ever reached Eternity without Thor's hubris.

So that's effectively five dead Avengers thanks to this guy.

How in the world was he supposed to know that the Bifrost was the key to Eternity!? Are you expecting him to have super foresight at this point and unlike everyone else in existence see the consequences of every single one of his actions. He was just trying to create a weapon like Mjolnir(a weapon he had a lot of experience with) to help him defeat Thanos.

[thjan]

My one complaint or plot hole(imo) in the movie was Thor's powering of the children temporarily against Gorr's creatures. If he had that ability he could have just created his own super, super powerful army by bringing along a few Asgardian soldiers(wouldn't need many with all of them having Thor's power) and powering them and Valkyrie up. This complaint is nothing new in the comics or movies though, and is pretty much an often used trope at this point. I have never understood why if Odin could give someone the power of Thor no problem through Mjolnir or Stormbreaker in the comics, that he could not just do that with anyone he wants and have an invincible army of Thor level beings(you wouldn't need many to be unstoppable). Same goes for a lot of cosmic and mystical weapons in the comics and movies that can seemingly effortlessly and with no consequences give people incredible levels of powers, but are never duplicated and used en masse.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Thor Love and Thunder is the "Batman and Robin" of the MCU.

[HollowSage]

My one complaint or plot hole(imo) in the movie was Thor's powering of the children temporarily against Gorr's creatures. If he had that ability he could have just created his own super, super powerful army by bringing along a few Asgardian soldiers(wouldn't need many with all of them having Thor's power) and powering them and Valkyrie up. This complaint is nothing new in the comics or movies though, and is pretty much an often used trope at this point. I have never understood why if Odin could give someone the power of Thor no problem through Mjolnir or Stormbreaker in the comics, that he could not just do that with anyone he wants and have an invincible army of Thor level beings(you wouldn't need many to be unstoppable). Same goes for a lot of cosmic and mystical weapons in the comics and movies that can seemingly effortlessly and with no consequences give people incredible levels of powers, but are never duplicated and used en masse.

Isn’t that kind of like “Why doesn’t Iron Man make Armor for all the Avengers?” I mean imagine if Black Widow, Hawkeye and even Cap had Armor.

[LifeIsILL]

I don't understand positive reactions to about 75% of any Marvel movie, but them's the breaks.

Same here, I thought Antman and the Wasp was one of the worst movies I've seen in a while. Whole movie was bad aside from the first 20 or minutes. Should have gotten 40% on RT at most.

[bat39]

Just watched it and...honestly have mixed feelings about it.

On the plus side, its a thoroughly enjoyable film no doubt. Probably one of the most enjoyable MCU films ever. The humor, the one-liners, the soundtracks, the visuals...the Shadow Realm was a particular standout for me! Basically, in Thor's own words, an all-round ''classic Thor adventure''

But on the negative side, the tone...oh God the tone! Its all over the place! Like, one minute, children have been abducted by a homicidal maniac, and the next minute we get jokes about Thor giving a motivation speech, about the Asgardian theatre company putting on a performance about the abduction, about Jane trying to come up with a catchphrase as the new Thor, about Thor joking with the aforementioned abducted kids about their situation...I suppose black comedy just about covers it, but really it came across more as a case of Watiti wanting to make two different movies that he then rolled into one - a spoof of Thor movies, and a serious film about Gorr the God Butcher and Jane Foster.

I honestly can't think of a superhero movie with such a schizophrenic tone - Batman Forever comes close I suppose with its introspective take on Bruce Wayne and the tragedy of Dick Grayson combined with Two Face and Riddler hamming it up, but even those feel like they belong in the same crazy reality that is the Schumacher Batverse. Here, its sometimes hard to believe that Jane Foster dying of cancer is part of the same narrative as Zeus's orgies.

Ultimately, its far from the best Thor movie, but its definitely better than The Dark World. Considering the MCU as a whole, its a solidly mid-to-lower tier effort. But it doesn't hold a candle to Ragnarok or other MCU greats like Guardians of the Galaxy or The Winter Soldier.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Isn’t that kind of like “Why doesn’t Iron Man make Armor for all the Avengers?” I mean imagine if Black Widow, Hawkeye and even Cap had Armor.

It would take time and effort to create armor for the other Avengers.

Thor seemed able to empower others effortlessly, on a whim.

I loved the fight scenes overall, but damn if the team meant to handle internal logic fell asleep at the switch.

Instead of constant mood whiplash, maybe develop the mythos some? Why the hell was Eternity a guy who granted wishes? Why was the Bifrost what Gorr needed?

I wish the MCU movies didn't automatically gravitate towards the biggest and latest villains, because Gorr isn't that great a villain, all things considered.