Thor: Love And Thunder 'Here There Be Spoilers'

[phonogram12]

"If you only watch the trailer and not the actual movie you'll see it's not stand-alone."

There were no "constant Avengers references." It was two, maybe three lines at most. In a 2+hr movie.

Yeah, to say anymore than that is a complete fallacy.

[ChrisIII]

The way they were killed was so offputting. No character development, not even saying their names, just whammo.

Yet somehow Jeff Goldblum's wildly stupid character still lives at the end.

Guess if Hela hadn't killed them, they would have been killed the same way by Thanos. This is one of the problems with the story being told in movies, there just isn't time for many characters.

Was it ever confirmed that the Collector was killed by Thanos? I mean Thanos does use his illusion but despite Knowhere's state we never see his body.

[WebLurker]

um, this is isnt really accurate. I remember on this forum there were many complaints when they dropped the term Eternals Assemble and the entire second trailer had to mention thanos after the first trailer got a meh reception. although this is not the thread for that so I will not be expanding further, but it was clear Eternals from, their constant Avengers references to even one of the characters wanting to be the new avenger leader was a little bit on the nose.

To be perfectly candid, this's one of the most manufactured criticisms I've seen, esp. seeing how, when you actually look at the trailers and final film, the Avengers were not used to sell the movie. (Compare to Spider-Man: No Way Home, where the return of characters from the earlier movies was front and center in all the marketing.)

Is not really necessary, sometimes it looks desperate and empty with ideas. It also does not rest much on the comics, even for D list IPs.

Since you seem to think any nod or homage is too much, I find this hard to take seriously. Simple question: do the references need additional context to make sense or do they work as just background color if you never saw the earlier movie. It's only a problem if it's too much of the former.

As many rumours for the MCU turns out been true, I think this will follow.

And yet your predictions are usually off-base.

Saying it is not up for debate does not really carry any weight when most of all their movies have had to referenced a crossover.

And repeating false claims does not make them any more true, much less a valid argument. We can examine the other movies; the "non-standalone" movies, as you call them, simply are a rarer part of the series.

My thoughts on Logan here was more film making.

That's not what you were saying before. "...this is what marvel needs now both in film making and story even if they are still part of a connected universe, the comics does not feature other crossovers at a rate of 90% like their movies does. Think Logan." is about narrative interconnectivity, not the style of the director. And you didn't answer the question: why is Logan a better example of what the MCU should do when it uses the same kind of references and links to previous films that the average MCU movie does?

this is what marvel needs now both in film making and story even if they are still part of a connected universe, the comics does not feature other crossovers at a rate of 90% like their movies does. Think Logan.The movie looked nothing like the other X-MEN films in directing and style, you can tell Bryan Singer or any of the other past directors had nothing to do with that film. This Thor trailer is copy and pasting from the past MCU movies than Jo Jo Rabbit and I feel this needs a true objective criticism in a post Snyder Cut era and post a Dune era, because Thor's Universe should have been more of the lord of the rings kind of universe in style. If Snyder managed to have pulled that off with his cut, I think MCU should get though love for the Thor movies for not choosing to see Asgard as a different thing, instead Asgard looks more catoonish copied of GOTG/Ms Marvel/Shang Chi. the standard for Thor should be higher and this trailer disappoints in that. It is very uninspiring. I dont even see any Jojo Rabbit film reference in the trailer and that is Waititi best film. I think he even won a screenplay oscar for that.[/quote]

The teaser trailer is not the movie. Heck, we've seen what Waititi can do in the MCU sandbox and it's a pretty unique thing. (Also, do we really want to be invoking Snyder's name, seeing how his goals with his superhero stuff are pretty different in intent, whatever we may think of the actual execution?)

does the concept of cinematic universe stops movies from evolving in the arts. it does not really or shouldn't really.

What does one have to do with the other? Being or not being a cinematic universe movie series does not inherently prevent the art itself from being good. In any event, a brief teaser is not sufficient to judge whether the final product will push the envelope or not.

Also, if you think that Marvel Studios is lacking in creativity, you should see the Disney+ MCU content sometime.

I dont understand how thor been in a cinematic universe means he needs to keep copying of from the GOTG-Shang Chi concept.

I don't understand why you keep insisting all this stuff is exactly the same when there are their differences. Also, seeing how you've repeated insisted that Thor should be a serious drama for some unspecified reasons, it really sounds like you're just writing it off because you wanted something else entirely. You like what you like, but that is irrelevant to whether the movie is good on its own terms.

[Scott Taylor]

Was it ever confirmed that the Collector was killed by Thanos? I mean Thanos does use his illusion but despite Knowhere's state we never see his body.

Its not clear, to my knowledge. The Collector could be alive.

[Immortal Weapon]

Keith David wants to voice Beta Ray Bill in the MCU

https://twitter.com/CBR/status/1517487581545607169

Feige needs to make this happen

[Ravin' Ray]

His work as the voice of the Gargoyle Goliath was perfect. He would do Bill justice.

[Frontier]

Keith David wants to voice Beta Ray Bill in the MCU

https://twitter.com/CBR/status/1517487581545607169

Feige needs to make this happen

I can never say no to more Keith David .

I'm just worried Waititi would turn Bill into a joke.

[WebLurker]

I can never say no to more Keith David .

I'm just worried Waititi would turn Bill into a joke.

A camel man who dresses like Thor? You can't take that too seriously.

[Frontier]

A camel man who dresses like Thor? You can't take that too seriously.

You would be surprised if you've seen enough of Bill.

[WebLurker]

You would be surprised if you've seen enough of Bill.

It's a fine balance, to be sure.

[choptop]

I do wonder how powerful Thor is going to be in this so probably more powerful than dudethor but probably less powerful than he was as in endgame?

[Castle]

To be perfectly candid, this's one of the most manufactured criticisms I've seen, esp. seeing how, when you actually look at the trailers and final film, the Avengers were not used to sell the movie. (Compare to Spider-Man: No Way Home, where the return of characters from the earlier movies was front and center in all the marketing.)

.

it is not manufactured criticism, it is not even a criticism, it was just something that was easy to spot, and when you say avengers was not used to sell the movie, it would not collide well with what we factually saw in the trailer. and the end of the day, trailer are for selling movies, trailers are used to promote movies for cinema tickets, whatever we saw in the trailers was used to sell a film, and we saw the most cringe worthy avengers refences, (eternals assembles, thanos wiped out earth, who is the new leaders of the avengers) heck, this is even the reason fandango for example only start doing box office projection when the first trailer drops.

Anyone is entitled to believe what they want to beleive, however i doubt any marketing strategist or sales executive wont come to the conclusion that eternals was not using avengers as part of their sales promotions based on the trailers. Eternals Assemble???...... Really?. what is the better way to market a comic film from a new IP by using that tagline.

Since you seem to think any nod or homage is too much, I find this hard to take seriously. Simple question: do the references need additional context to make sense or do they work as just background color if you never saw the earlier movie. It's only a problem if it's too much of the former.

I allude this more to some studios not taking their IP seriously anymore that they feel they need to rest too much on homages. Homages can be a poor substitute for having not enough story to work with.

And yet your predictions are usually off-base.

Please can you name some examples of these failed predictions usually being off base. you say this to me all the time, but never point out the failed predictions. the last thing I remember predicting here was Dune cleaning up the Oscars in the technical categories, which turned out correct. I also predicted or ''guessed'' how George Lucas directs and produces films, which turned out correct since he said what I said when he got his PGA lifetime awards. I have never claimed to be a perfect Astrologer of movies, but I always find film and film making easy to guess right many of the times. So if you think I am always predicting something that is way off, do give some past examples.

And repeating false claims does not make them any more true, much less a valid argument. We can examine the other movies; the "non-standalone" movies, as you call them, simply are a rarer part of the series.

No offence, but what false claims am I repeating? Shang CHI was not stand alone, we did not really need to have a post credit scene of captain marvel and hulk. They added nothing to the movie. No need to touch much on the rest (NWH and eternals) since it has already been discussed.

Just a note on Logan, Logan is not super-dependant on any of the past films even if Logan was part of the X-Men IP. GOTG IP and Thor IP are not part of each other. Like X-Men, they are stand alone IP of marvel, so they need to have more stand alone films even more than Logan tried to be.

There is nothing wrong with interconnectivity , it only becomes an issues when the story rest way too much on it. This Thor trailer could have still had GOTG members in it but they did not need to put that in the trailer and a first trailer for that matter, because now, this is a thor movie and we are talking about GOTG as much as Thor itself. This is when interconnectivity becomes problematic in issues.

The worlds of Thor and GOTG are bleeding too much into eachother, which is making the MCU look tiny. marvel choosing this approach, yes it means more money for them but the creative narrative comes off poorly and that is the vibe this trailers gives me. I am also looking at some of the reception and reaction from comic fans and most seems to be on the been there and done that. the reception so far for this trailer has been meh to average and I feel this is fitting since we could have had something a little more different.

[Sutekh]

Apparently it's a very valid critique of...only Marvel movies.

And yet it's high art I am too much of a peasant to get when Snyder uses Hallelujah in that Justice League movie.

Whatever. I may not agree with various directors musical preferences, like the dude who did Iron Man 3 (I thought AC/DC was great in the first 2 movies, but that rap song at the beginning of IM3 kind of threw me), but that doesn't mean they don't serve the story well. (I didn't like the IM3 *story* much, either. So the song choice was apparently 100% on-brand.)

[Castle]

I do wonder how powerful Thor is going to be in this so probably more powerful than dudethor but probably less powerful than he was as in endgame?

And speaking of predictions

I think Thor's powers in this film would end up being controversial and may even cause backlash if Jane ends up displaying way more powerful abilities than Thor has ever done in his 11 years playing the character.

This- I hope is a thing, the movie does not do. not only would it be disrespectful to Thor, I feel it would hurt the character more than the fat Thor thing.

It does not matter how powerful Thor is, what matters is that Jane is not more powerful because I dont think any story can make that believable enough, Thor has years of experiences on the battle field, years of training and also it is in is bloodline-he was born a god. Something even Loki got consumed by in jealousy.

If they make Jane some kind of undisputed godlike Thor above what we have seen in the past. It will be like Rey being more powerful than Luke, and I dont think there is a need to stress, why many Star Wars fans thought the last jedi was poorly written filled with superficial girl power feminism. that came at the expense of logical story telling.

As I said, Having a female Thor is not a problem, writing a good female Thor may be the problem.

[Castle]

And yet it's high art I am too much of a peasant to get when Snyder uses Hallelujah in that Justice League movie.

Whatever. I may not agree with various directors musical preferences, like the dude who did Iron Man 3 (I thought AC/DC was great in the first 2 movies, but that rap song at the beginning of IM3 kind of threw me), but that doesn't mean they don't serve the story well. (I didn't like the IM3 *story* much, either. So the song choice was apparently 100% on-brand.)

Don't forget also that Black Widow had Nirvana

I feel it is time comic films just stop with all the songs in the trailers including DC. Have we reached the point where we can call a trailer ''generic'' just for the reason, it had a popular song. the Aerosmith song for this trailer is indeed generic usage of a song in a trailer.

I don't remember much of the comic trailers in the early 2000s, but I doubt they used songs. geesh, studios need to give it a rest people. They are stereotyping the superhero genre way too much by always using rock/pop songs.