A Savage Creed: The SABRETOOTH Appreciation Thread

[Silver Fang]

Just when we, or any, Creed fans thought it couldn't get worse.

The recent chapter for Pak's Weapon X has just declared that Sabretooth can't use a keyboard.
RCO012.jpg

It's official. Greg Pak is possibly Creed's worst writer. I now have no problem putting him in the same category as Daniel Way with Deadpool.

#1, marvel's official profile states Creed is intelligent, and routinely hacked into databases to steal info. His claws are retractable. And Pak JUST said earlier in the series that Creed possibly had a dating profile, and a twitter account. But now, he can't type....

[Ambaryerno]

Just when we, or any, Creed fans thought it couldn't get worse.

The recent chapter for Pak's Weapon X has just declared that Sabretooth can't use a keyboard.
RCO012.jpg

It's official. Greg Pak is possibly Creed's worst writer. I now have no problem putting him in the same category as Daniel Way with Deadpool.

#1, marvel's official profile states Creed is intelligent, and routinely hacked into databases to steal info. His claws are retractable. And Pak JUST said earlier in the series that Creed possibly had a dating profile, and a twitter account. But now, he can't type....

Or...Warpath was just cracking wise at Creed's expense.

[Silver Fang]

Or...Warpath was just cracking wise at Creed's expense.

With Pak, I am doubting it wasn't serious. Creed has looked, and been treated like, complete sh*t since Pak got a hold of him. If he's not getting his ass kicked, then everyone on the team is talking down to him like he's a joke. No doubt Pak is a Logan fan, and Creed is around to make him look good. Especially after his pathetic display against Laura last chapter, then having her casually kick him in the face for no other reason than to make her look good, and Creed look bad. And also the scenes in Hulk where Warpath, Domino and Logan are having a casual chat, while we see numerous panels of Creed getting beaten up in the background.

Sabretooth is the Meg Griffin of Pak's writing.

[Kurolegacy]

With Pak, I am doubting it wasn't serious. Creed has looked, and been treated like, complete sh*t since Pak got a hold of him. If he's not getting his ass kicked, then everyone on the team is talking down to him like he's a joke. No doubt is a Logan fan, and Creed is around to make him look good. Especially after his pathetic display against Laura last chapter, then having her casually kick him in the face for no other reason than to make her look good, and Creed look bad. And also the scenes in Hulk where Warpath, Domino and Logan are having a casual chat, while we see numerous panels of Creed getting beaten up in the background.

Sabretooth is the Meg Griffin of Pak's writing.

Honestly, it's kinda sad for the character considering that Bunn seemed to have had an idea of where he was going with Creed as a character and even left him in a bit of an interesting place of becoming something new that wasn't his inversion self but also not his old self either only for Pak to have completely ignored it with no explanation. Hell I still love to know why the covers keep showing him in his Uncanny costume only to have him in street cloths in the book.

[Silver Fang]

Honestly, it's kinda sad for the character considering that Bunn seemed to have had an idea of where he was going with Creed as a character and even left him in a bit of an interesting place of becoming something new that wasn't his inversion self but also not his old self either only for Pak to have completely ignored it with no explanation. Hell I still love to know why the covers keep showing him in his Uncanny costume only to have him in street cloths in the book.

Agreed 100% Back when Creed was Inverted, a few fans thought the story had potential and could be very good or tragic, if done right. But we feared another writer would come along and just reset and regress Creed's character with no explanation. Pak is that writer.

He says he planned to follow up on Bunn's work. But looking at this terrible handling so far -plus later interviews, it seems he ignored everything Bunn did. Except having Greg Land do art for a bit. I also hate how he's in his X-Man uniform when he's not wearing it in the book.

Everything Pak has done, imo, sucks. And Creed doesn't seem anywhere near interesting under his pen. And this is gonna be a long on-going series. Meaning Creed's gonna be suffering Pak's abuse for a while. I can't see Pak just miraculously making Creed a great character again, given the work he's done in 11 chapters so far.

The January Solicit for Creed in Weapon X didn't sound promising either.

[PlotDevice]

As a Wolverine fan I find Creed's treatment these days beyond laughable. Him being inverted from a villain to something other than a villain is fine and could offer new character exploration. I for one dont really think Creed ever really views himself as a "bad guy". Such a term must seem almost comedic to someone like him anyway. He lives off instinct and the knowledge that if he can do a thing it must mean he has every right to do so. Of course in the current political climate his sort of mind set makes him ideal fodder for the current status quo, regardless of it making zero sense. Watching X-23 constantly curb-stomping somebody like Creed is painful. The first X-Men comic I ever read Creed KOed Rogue in 3 blows. We are talking about a guy that constantly assaults (for fun) and murders the loved ones of Wolverine. Not many people have balls like that, but it was just another day at the park for Creed. Today he is the mouse to X-23's cat and I have to ask - Have these writers read any of these comics? Why is it okay to crap on years of established continuity to drive home the very hard to swallow pill that is X-23 is the most accomplished of all the berserkers/Wolverine-knockoffs? X-23 is a smaller, weaker, WAY less durable version of Wolverine. The fact that she's female and not fully grown means there's also no way she should even be as fast as he is. All this crap about her being a better fighter is painful to hear. Both Creed and Logan have a century of fighting experience over her and real world pain and suffering to drive their rage. The fact that she has no adamantium skeleton should also mean that Creed dismembers her every time he touches her. It used to be a feat for Wolverine to defeat Sabretooth. He truly had to give in to the beast and in a way that in itself is what Creed wanted anyway. The fact that it is so easy for the clone deminishes both Logan and Creed in a pitiful way.

[Silver Fang]

PlotDevice
The way Pak is writing them, Logan is stronger than Creed, and the latter is his sidekick at best, if not his bitch. The latter seems more the case. I would think Pak had Creed as the team's weakest member if he hadn't had Logan outright say it was Domino.


Also, some writers really haven't read the comics or aren't familiar with character's story before they write their crap. Examples

He & Mystique had a son together -Graydon. He was conceived when Sabretooth and Mystique took shelter in a safehouse in Germany, while she was under disguise of a German Spy, named Leni Zauber. She then faked her death, and left the real body of Zauber for Creed to find. Sabretooth didn't find out he had a son until Graydon was already grown. Chuck Austin came along, and wanted to tell the story of how Graydon was conceived, and it was TOTALLY different. Then afterwards, Austin says he didn't know anyone already told the story... So there ya have it -far as how well some writers pay attention. I consider that Austin story to be non-canon.

Another example was Silver Fox & Creed's first kill. I THINK it was the 90s when it was revealed that Creed didn't really rape & kill her in the cabin. It was a memory implant. He kills her YEARS later when she's working for Hydra. And when he was locked up by the X-Men, Gambit shows his past victims -the first being his pediatrician when he was 9. But with X-Men Origins: Sabretooth, they came along and basically just rehashed that misproven Silver Fox story. And the one new thing they told us contradicted previous info -where instead of Creed's first kill being his doctor, it was his brother. Then they had Logan & Creed being "friends" before he murdered Silver Fox, when they clearly already hated each other before that. I don't count that story as canon either.

[PlotDevice]

Some writers really haven't read the comics before they write their crap.

I'm aware of all the examples, but it excuses nothing. A major media company with fans following their characters exploits for years shouldn't miss the mark this badly.

Another example was Silver Fox & Creed's first kill. I THINK it was the 90s when it was revealed that Creed didn't really rape & kill her in the cabin. It was a memory implant. He kills her YEARS later when she's working for Hydra.

As written by the great Larry Hama with Mark Texiera on art. Loeb and Bianchi further ignore this glaring fact only a few years ago AGAIN.

Also, the way Pak is writing them, he has Logan as being the stronger of the two, and Creed is his sidekick at best, if not his bitch.

As well as Old Man being able to hang with Creed before X vs I. I also dont understand how someone who had such a hard time with the RED SKULL was able to best current Sabretooth. One could argue that Old Man didn't really start pumping again until he found out the Hulks killed his family, but thats a BIG LEAP. He barely beats Cap's punching bag of all people, to duffing Victor Creed, his greatest foe... with relative ease? Sad.

BUT... for the clone to do it off hand... far more pathetic IMO.

[Silver Fang]

I'm aware of all the examples, but it excuses nothing. A major media company with fans following their characters exploits for years shouldn't miss the mark this badly.
As written by the great Larry Hama with Mark Texiera on art. Loeb and Bianchi further ignore this glaring fact only a few years ago AGAIN.
As well as Old Man being able to hang with Creed before X vs I. I also dont understand how someone who had such a hard time with the RED SKULL was able to best current Sabretooth. One could argue that Old Man didn't really start pumping again until he found out the Hulks killed his family, but thats a BIG LEAP. He barely beats Cap's punching bag of all people, to duffing Victor Creed, his greatest foe... with relative ease? Sad.

BUT... for the clone to do it off hand... far more pathetic IMO.

Also, on OML. Logan can apparently take on an entire pack of Hulks by himself. But Creed on the other hand is getting beaten up by everything.

Basically, Logan & Laura are the popular ones. So because of that, Creed is treated as satellite character to hype them. He's no more than a Logan accessory for some writers. Sad, but true. that NOW, Logan and Laura are superior. And Creed is the second-rate wannabe.

If he's gonna be this much of a joke, he may have been better off staying dead. Give Daken to Logan as a bitch. Least that would make a little more sense, being the son and all. Good writers that give Sabretooth depth -or at least make him dangerous, never have him long.

[berserkerclaw]

As a Wolverine fan I find Creed's treatment these days beyond laughable. Him being inverted from a villain to something other than a villain is fine and could offer new character exploration. I for one dont really think Creed ever really views himself as a "bad guy". Such a term must seem almost comedic to someone like him anyway. He lives off instinct and the knowledge that if he can do a thing it must mean he has every right to do so. Of course in the current political climate his sort of mind set makes him ideal fodder for the current status quo, regardless of it making zero sense. Watching X-23 constantly curb-stomping somebody like Creed is painful. The first X-Men comic I ever read Creed KOed Rogue in 3 blows. We are talking about a guy that constantly assaults (for fun) and murders the loved ones of Wolverine. Not many people have balls like that, but it was just another day at the park for Creed. Today he is the mouse to X-23's cat and I have to ask - Have these writers read any of these comics? Why is it okay to crap on years of established continuity to drive home the very hard to swallow pill that is X-23 is the most accomplished of all the berserkers/Wolverine-knockoffs? X-23 is a smaller, weaker, WAY less durable version of Wolverine. The fact that she's female and not fully grown means there's also no way she should even be as fast as he is. All this crap about her being a better fighter is painful to hear. Both Creed and Logan have a century of fighting experience over her and real world pain and suffering to drive their rage. The fact that she has no adamantium skeleton should also mean that Creed dismembers her every time he touches her. It used to be a feat for Wolverine to defeat Sabretooth. He truly had to give in to the beast and in a way that in itself is what Creed wanted anyway. The fact that it is so easy for the clone deminishes both Logan and Creed in a pitiful way.

This whole series is laughable.

[Silver Fang]

Gotta say, I have been enjoying Sabes in the past two Iron Fist chapters. Wasn't gonna read since I figured it'd just be a short gimmick, w/o much story. But it's the only other thing Creed is in -Weapon X being a complete bust.

Anyway, Creed still seems Inverted. But here, it seems like something has happened to him that's screwed him up -making him more cynical + antisocial. He's not trying to cause trouble, but no longer trying to help much either -except special circumstances. Just the vibe I got when Danny came to him in the bar. He didn't seem to be joyously drinking. Seemed more like drowning his troubles.

Going into the recent chapter,
spoilers:

I like the touch of him trying to keep Constrictor's legacy clear, which makes sense given his own life-changes + respect for the partnership they had once. It was also nice seeing how current villains react to his change -seeing him as a rat and not wanting him at any of their hang-out spots. That was something we hadn't seen. Heroes think he's untrustworthy (which we saw a lot) & villains think he's a sellout. It brings up what he told Psylocke in CW II. That he was only with Magneto because nobody else would have him. The team disbanded, but he was still with Monet -whom he seemed to care more about than anything else about that team. So, it was all good. But now, he doesn't have Monet either. So it puts his mood in the last chapter into light -that he not know what to do with himself and has nothing to devote himself to -being rejected by heroes -and villains, as this chapter showed.

end of spoilers

Also, in terms of comedy -so far, this series does it right. Loved the laundromat scene with Danny & Creed from start to finish. And I am really enjoying their dynamic, which is evenly matched.

[Chubistian]

I can’t believe I spent so much time without knowing this thread existed! I’ve loved Creed since I saw him in the first X-Men movie, as a child, though it wasn’t a good incarnation of him.

Wolverine #10 it’s up to this day my favorite Wolverine vs Sabretooth fight

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[Sam Robards, Comic Fan]

I finally caught up with Pak's Weapon X, and, yeah, it's really not very good. Pak doesn't really care about any of the main characters in this book: he just seems obsessed with telling us how great his "hulkverine" (Ugh) is, which is, coincidentally, getting its own spin-off series.

Creed definitely gets the worst of it in this book: he has insipid dialogue (Subtweeting? Really?), is made the butt of virtually every joke and has no genuinely good fight showings throughout the entire series. It really is quite dreadful.

I only hope that the rumors of this book getting replaced with an X-Men Black series are true, and that Creed's on it and written by a better writer.

I've read the first chapter of the Iron Fist story arc, and thought it was ok. I haven't been able to read part two yet. Though Danny did throw the "poor man's Wolverine" shade at Creed, making me wonder if he'll be treated any better in this story than he is in Weapon X.

[Silver Fang]

Sam Robards, Comic Fan
That's a good rumor, and I also hope it's true. Pak's interviews have me thinking this is gonna be a long-running series...But hopefully he'll get the Bunn treatment & have his story cancelled regardless of his plans. I doubt any other writer could ruin Creed worse.

Sabretooth is DEFINITELY treated better in Iron Fist. He is still a decent threat, and he holds his own with Danny. Unlike Pak who constantly punks him out to everybody. I can understand being wary with the Wolverine-line. But the book, imo has been good so far. I still think Bunn was doing the best with Creed. BUT, Brisson is close behind, tied with Gerry Duggan.

And EB actually seems like he plans to write Sabretooth as a character. Mentioning in recent interviews that we'd see a more human side to Creed with the Constrictor business. In addition to getting into how the other villains respond to him and how Creed deals with his Legacy as a villain, now that he's reformed. But pak...he takes everything wrong in Creed's portrayal over the past 15 years, and does it all in just 12 chapters.

Thank God for Brisson, because pak almost ruined Sabretooth for me. The only good thing about Creed in pak's series is the artwork -even when Greg Land was drawing lol The art for the new Legacy chapters looks great. Sad that the best artist on Creed is attached to the worst book.

[Silver Fang]

Just makes sense to post these here too.

Phoenix Resurrection teases with Mr. Creed.
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Weapon X team1.jpg
X-Men Compilation2.jpg
Apparently the book's team hasn't read anything with Sabretooth after Bunncanny X-Men since the design in the first pic is totally wrong. lol They fell pray to drawing him like many Marvel covers still are. He's possibly gonna appear in ANW given the cover, and it still has him in his Uncanny costume with short hair. Ah Marvel's Continuity.

Looking at that 2nd pic, our poor Creed won't be jobbing any less in this book. Bummer. But least we know what to expect before we read it. Nice to see the color page from the earliest X-Men preview. Always thought Creed looked uncomfortable or depressed in the group pic.