Tounament of OP characters nomination thread

[XZJACK]

See, I disagree with that. Haki is a power that needs to be taught in One Piece, but it isn't so special that you just instantly lose to it just because you don't have it. That would be a no limits fallacy, another thing we're not really keen on here. if you can push yourself through the influence of haki you can overcome it. At best it just evens the playing field against some of the trickier devil fruits.

It needs to be taught if you want to learn how to use it, but everyone has the potential to use at least one kind.

If you want to get generic, it's an outside force that's trying to knock Superman out. He's met such things in the past and conquered them through his sheer willpower. Haki isn't an instant win button even in One Piece. And there's no indication that it would have any effect on somebody with as much mental fortitude and sheer strength of will as Superman.

You haven't shown that 'mental fortitude and sheer strength of will', in and of themselves, are a defense.

We have real debates here everyday that follow the rules. And people only get banned if they're being assholes. If you don't like the rules and don't want to follow them than that's your problem.

Your debates are all flawed because they are based on rules with flawed assumptions. If you assume something silly, like 2 + 2 = 5, you can actually build a consistent system of mathematics around it if you try hard enough, but it has no relation to real math.

Besides, you guys have been threatening me with banning just because I don't believe in silly things like non-combat feats automatically prove combat speed, and characters who get tagged by normal humans all the time aren't actually fast in combat. If that's what is meant by being an asshole, then you have a weird definition of it.

[The MunchKING]

Notice how he actually still hits him?

Because he gives himself superspeed, weakens Superman with Kryptonite, or distracts superman with Doomsday or something

It's part of combat speed.

It's skill, because, again, people can do fight stuff slowly and people with actual superspeed can do things very fast regardless of their actual skill at combat.

Still more than Superman then.

Great now you need to prove any of those 20 random flappings could hit superman or hurt him in any way.

Because that wasn't the super move, that was just his stretchy hit. He took several minutes of walking before he dropped that super technique.

I never said Batman would win, just that it's an actual fight where they can dodge and hit each other. Which is something that would be impossible according to your arguments.

Impossible if superman fought as a ruthless killing machine, certainly. Which is why Superman in comics doesn't.

First, it says under lightspeed. Second, tell that to Deathstroke.

Eitherway, still way better than Luffy.

We did. He didn't listen to us either.

And as soon as he tried, he would get his head punched off at super speed.

Probably not. Batman's taken a lot of abuse over the years. Luffy would probably be able to hit him though. Unlike Superman.

That's assuming he knows it's coming. And Luffy could just dodge all of that due to his superior combat speed.

That depends entirely on how BIG of an asteroid you drop now doesn't it?

Disagreeing is starting a fight now?

aggressively calling everyone stupid for reading the rules and trying to use them is more of what I would worry about if I were you.

[XZJACK]

Because he gives himself superspeed, weakens Superman with Kryptonite, or distracts superman with Doomsday or something

According to you, no 'distractions' should matter with the speed difference.

It's skill, because, again, people can do fight stuff slowly and people with actual superspeed can do things very fast regardless of their actual skill at combat.

Skill is part of combat speed.

Great now you need to prove any of those 20 random flappings could hit superman or hurt him in any way.

Because that wasn't the super move, that was just his stretchy hit. He took several minutes of walking before he dropped that super technique.

Point is, Luffy is consistently portrayed as having higher combat speed than Superman.

Impossible if superman fought as a ruthless killing machine, certainly. Which is why Superman in comics doesn't.

You have to prove that he can do so then, and make himself unable to be hit by anyone slower. Because that certainly would have helped him a lot of times.

Eitherway, still way better than Luffy.

But it's not combat speed, so it doesn't matter in a fight.

We did. He didn't listen to us either.

So you see Flash doesn't have high combat speed.

Probably not. Batman's taken a lot of abuse over the years. Luffy would probably be able to hit him though. Unlike Superman.

Batman is only human.

That depends entirely on how BIG of an asteroid you drop now doesn't it?

He will be KO'd before he gets the chance.

aggressively calling everyone stupid for reading the rules and trying to use them is more of what I would worry about if I were you.

Well I have people saying things to me like 'we already posted feats' when they didn't.

[big_adventure]

Well I have people saying things to me like 'we already posted feats' when they didn't.

Ah, the "I know you are, but what am I" defense. Clever. Troll, I have explained this to you more than once today. We don't actually have to do that on this board because there have been hundreds of forum pages already dedicated to Superman's speed. There have been multiple mod rulings on Superman's speed. Therefore, we accept his speed as what it is (and what it has consistently been) unless or until there is a reason to change it.

In this thread or another (too jaded to look, now) you literally argue that Flash doesn't have combat speed feats. Flash. A whole comic with 900 issues or whatever, plus hundreds more appearances in Titans and JL and whatever with hundreds of combat speed feats.

[The MunchKING]

According to you, no 'distractions' should matter with the speed difference.

Bizarro is fighting Superman at Kryptonian speeds in that example, and so Superman has to focus on Bizzaro to the extent he misses Batman (who does explictly have superman-stopping stealth gear)

Skill is part of combat speed.

Only when actual superspeed isn't involved.

You have to prove that he can do so then, and make himself unable to be hit by anyone slower. Because that certainly would have helped him a lot of times.

Well that's what hitting Doomsday 4000 times in a panel was supposed to accomplish.

He holds back a lot to not kill the ordinary humans when he fights them.

But it's not combat speed, so it doesn't matter in a fight.

Arguably it's the most important thing.

So you see Flash doesn't have high combat speed.

Except all those other times he did stuff way faster, like react to a bullet hitting his hair without knowing he'd been shot at.

You're picking the one low point of the guy's fights.

Batman is only human.

So is Lex Luthor, and he still got punched through brick walls.

He will be KO'd before he gets the chance.

With luffy's "I'm not even looking at you" fighting technique?

[XZJACK]

Ah, the "I know you are, but what am I" defense. Clever. Troll, I have explained this to you more than once today. We don't actually have to do that on this board because there have been hundreds of forum pages already dedicated to Superman's speed. There have been multiple mod rulings on Superman's speed. Therefore, we accept his speed as what it is (and what it has consistently been) unless or until there is a reason to change it.

And I've given you one. You don't have feats of combat speed. But let's suppose for a second there was someone who showed up here and knew nothing about Superman or his feats, you would just expect them to take your word for it?

In this thread or another (too jaded to look, now) you literally argue that Flash doesn't have combat speed feats. Flash. A whole comic with 900 issues or whatever, plus hundreds more appearances in Titans and JL and whatever with hundreds of combat speed feats.

The fact that he gets tagged by street level guys all the time is proof.

Bizarro is fighting Superman at Kryptonian speeds in that example, and so Superman has to focus on Bizzaro to the extent he misses Batman (who does explictly have superman-stopping stealth gear)

Sounds like a poor excuse to me. What about the whole 'he should be a statue' nonsense?

Only when actual superspeed isn't involved.

You think skill doesn't matter to people with superhuman powers? It does, a lot.

Well that's what hitting Doomsday 4000 times in a panel was supposed to accomplish.

You mean 5 times.

He holds back a lot to not kill the ordinary humans when he fights them.

He could still do that and never allow himself to get hit. But he does.

Arguably it's the most important thing.

What, running and carrying people? That's not fighting.

Except all those other times he did stuff way faster, like react to a bullet hitting his hair without knowing he'd been shot at.

You're picking the one low point of the guy's fights.

And you're picking the high points. He's been hit by bullets and slower people and not reacted to them lots of times, too. It's not consistent. He doesn't have consistent combat speed feats.

So is Lex Luthor, and he still got punched through brick walls.

Wearing his power armor

With luffy's "I'm not even looking at you" fighting technique?

No, with Haoshoku haki.

[The MunchKING]

Sounds like a poor excuse to me. What about the whole 'he should be a statue' nonsense?

Bizzaro and Superman fight for an eternity of subjective time, obviously.

You think skill doesn't matter to people with superhuman powers? It does, a lot.

Not when the gulf is that vast.

You mean 5 times.

SO Goku peaked at 10 again?

He could still do that and never allow himself to get hit. But he does.

Sometimes to save innocents. And sometimes because even he can be caught by surprise.

What, running and carrying people? That's not fighting.

No, but it's way more speed. And if you want to hit that when flash is actually going that fast you will need that kind of speed.

And you're picking the high points. He's been hit by bullets and slower people and not reacted to them lots of times, too. It's not consistent. He doesn't have consistent combat speed feats.

Honestly that's the only one I know of off the top of my head that didn't involve tricking Flash into standing still and not using his superspeed first. You got any good feats?

Wearing his power armor

Nope, Yellow Trenchcoat.

No, with Haoshoku haki.

The one he was slowly walking around for minutes before using and didn't throw out quickly at all? Superman would have plenty of time to fly away. Heck Travel speed was the thing you agreed he HAD.

[XZJACK]

Bizzaro and Superman fight for an eternity of subjective time, obviously.

Dumb. Just admit you have no excuse then.

Not when the gulf is that vast.

Maybe if they both have combat speed, but Superman has shown that he doesn't have high combat speed.

SO Goku peaked at 10 again?

I don't know the maximum amount of punches Goku threw in a single panel. But it was probably more than 5.

Sometimes to save innocents. And sometimes because even he can be caught by surprise.

Or because he just can't fight at that speed.

No, but it's way more speed. And if you want to hit that when flash is actually going that fast you will need that kind of speed.

Like I said, just put something in his path and he'll trip.

Honestly that's the only one I know of off the top of my head that didn't involve tricking Flash into standing still and not using his superspeed first. You got any good feats?

Found this one pretty quick:

https://comicnewbies.com/wp-content/...earth-52-6.jpg

Nope, Yellow Trenchcoat.

That's a cover. They often have tons of scenes that have nothing to do with the actual content of the comic.

The one he was slowly walking around for minutes before using and didn't throw out quickly at all?

Because he didn't need to.

Superman would have plenty of time to fly away. Heck Travel speed was the thing you agreed he HAD.

That's assuming he knows what is coming and what it is.

[Dark Soul # 7]

It needs to be taught if you want to learn how to use it, but everyone has the potential to use at least one kind.

You haven't shown that 'mental fortitude and sheer strength of will', in and of themselves, are a defense.

Point is. You saying that Luffy can do this one natural thing that can't be done naturally in another world means that he automatically wins. Which is just false. Especially since you bend what haki is and how it works just slightly enough to make sense for your nonsensical argument.

The text litterally tells us that if you're weak-willed Emperor's haki will knock you out. Says nothing about needing haki or anything, though that helps. So one can assume that if you're strong-willed you resist it. If you don't agree with that, well... you're wrong. Just like you've been wrong this entire thread and all the other threads.

Your debates are all flawed because they are based on rules with flawed assumptions. If you assume something silly, like 2 + 2 = 5, you can actually build a consistent system of mathematics around it if you try hard enough, but it has no relation to real math.

Besides, you guys have been threatening me with banning just because I don't believe in silly things like non-combat feats automatically prove combat speed, and characters who get tagged by normal humans all the time aren't actually fast in combat. If that's what is meant by being an asshole, then you have a weird definition of it.

Then why are you still here? As in, you don't like the rules or anything about this place it seems. You'll probably have more fun somewhere else. This can't have been a fun day for you.

Unless you're a troll. Which you probably are.

Point is... you have no idea how haki works.

[XZJACK]

Point is. You saying that Luffy can do this one natural thing that can't be done naturally in another world means that he automatically wins. Which is just false. Especially since you bend what haki is and how it works just slightly enough to make sense for your nonsensical argument.

No, I said if someone from another world has some kind of equivalent spiritual power, they could resist it. Like reiatsu or chakra. Superman has none of that stuff.

Then why are you still here? As in, you don't like the rules or anything about this place it seems. You'll probably have more fun somewhere else. This can't have been a fun day for you.

Unless you're a troll. Which you probably are.

Point is... you have no idea how haki works.

I want to hopefully get some people to listen to reason.

[Cody]

Except he's not. He doesn't have showings of combat speed to prove it.

He does, as already presented to you. Luffy doesn't though.

So then you admit that merely doing something 'more complex' at super speed doesn't make you a better fighter.

Never said it did make him a better fighter now did I? Makes him faster though.

No it's not. Combat speed is more than just reacting to stimuli.

Nope. It involves reacting to the fight itself, attacking, actively performing movements etc at high-speed.

You only posted one scan that was actual combat,

Doesn't have to be only combat, as long as he can move faster than a person can think.

and in that he only had 5 afterimages on his arm. Doesn't compare to Luffy.

It is a lot more than what Luffy has, and only someone willingly being obtuse when think he only hit 5 times when he was actively counting.

And that's the same way it is in comics when Superman fights Batman.

And if Superman actually wanted to try, and Batman didn't have any Kryptonite:

Show me Superman beating Batman so easily without Batman even comprehending it. I bet you can't.

Scan above showed just fine that, if Supes wanted to, Batman would be dead before he knew what happened.

And yeah, Flash doesn't have high combat speed either, he can just run fast and do other irrelevant stuff (like reading) fast. He can't actually fight that fast like anime characters can.

He and other speedsters have fought each other so fast that Superman and others appeared frozen by comparison, and have blitz the likes of them as well. You clearly don't know what you're talking about dude.

I would have to look through the manga to find the equivalent scene but it's over 1000 chapters, so the anime is good enough for now.

No, it isn't. One is restricted to a panel, the other was an entire clip. Burden of proof lies with you, so post the manga scan.

And Superman wasn't too fast for Doomsday to comprehend there, he fought back.

Except he was when he hit Doomsday over 4000 times before DD could do anything. Then for some reason he decided to stop using super speed because plot. But it isn't the first time that Supes has blitz this character, as he has before.

Yes it does, because if you were right, people like Batman would never be able to touch him.

And when he does use his speed, that's exactly what happens as you saw in the scan above.

Non - combat speed + physical strength doesn't magically become combat speed.

Moving faster than the other person can think, let alone react, absolutely correlates to combat speed.

[The MunchKING]

Dumb. Just admit you have no excuse then.

You know, you would probably be upset if I rejected all One Piece Lore with "Dumb. Just admit you have no Real Feats then".

I don't know the maximum amount of punches Goku threw in a single panel. But it was probably more than 5.

Nope, not really. The 8-arms thing was just waving them.

Honestly I doubt he's got more than two in a single panel.

Like I said, just put something in his path and he'll trip.

If you're going back to the silver ag maybe. Even then it usually involved him not noticing the floor was covered in ice or something.

Found this one pretty quick:

https://comicnewbies.com/wp-content/...earth-52-6.jpg

He literally said how he did it right there on panel. He was counting on flash slowing down and coming to talk to him and work it out compassionately rather than just murder him.

The flash slowed down for that one.

That's a cover. They often have tons of scenes that have nothing to do with the actual content of the comic.

Well yeah, but you would have just ignored me if I'd said Mr. Satan.

That's assuming he knows what is coming and what it is.

Doesn't have to know what it is to stay out of range.

But also unless the OP says otherwise basic information about your opponent is assumed around here.

[XZJACK]

He does, as already presented to you. Luffy doesn't though.

You don't know what combat speed is.

Never said it did make him a better fighter now did I? Makes him faster though.

Faster at irrelevant stuff, not fighting.

Nope. It involves reacting to the fight itself, attacking, actively performing movements etc at high-speed.

And more than that, fighting skill and experience.

Doesn't have to be only combat, as long as he can move faster than a person can think.

Except all the times he doesn't.

It is a lot more than what Luffy has, and only someone willingly being obtuse when think he only hit 5 times when he was actively counting.

Again, let me quote your own board rules:

What is narrative hyperbole?
Narrative hyperbole is when the narrator of a comic book says one thing while the action drawn on the pages clearly show something else. Sometimes, in the case of speech hyperbole, it is a character who says one thing, while the pages show differently. This does not mean the narrator or the character is always wrong. It only means that in the case of such conflict, the actual scenes overrule the narrator or character text. An example of this would be the Ten-Eyed Man, who Batman and the narrator called "the most dangerous man alive", and who was actually a very lame and low-powered character.

The text says 4000, the image shows 5. It was 5.

And if Superman actually wanted to try, and Batman didn't have any Kryptonite:

One page of him dodging, compared to all the pages where he gets hit.

Scan above showed just fine that, if Supes wanted to, Batman would be dead before he knew what happened.

He dodged a few punches, that doesn't counter all the times he failed to do so.

He and other speedsters have fought each other so fast that Superman and others appeared frozen by comparison, and have blitz the likes of them as well. You clearly don't know what you're talking about dude.

Show me then.

No, it isn't. One is restricted to a panel, the other was an entire clip. Burden of proof lies with you, so post the manga scan.

I might be able to find it but if I link to the chapter it would be technically piracy since it's licensed.

Except he was when he hit Doomsday over 4000 times before DD could do anything. Then for some reason he decided to stop using super speed because plot. But it isn't the first time that Supes has blitz this character, as he has before.

There's no proof it was 4000 times, the panel only shows 5 afterimages. Also, what you call 'plot', I call 'not having true combat speed'.

And when he does use his speed, that's exactly what happens as you saw in the scan above.

For just one page. I mean an entire fight.

Moving faster than the other person can think, let alone react, absolutely correlates to combat speed.

Not if you still get hit by them all the time.

Again, look here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forum...proof-1800078/

[The MunchKING]

Faster at irrelevant stuff, not fighting.

Why would fighting be distinct?

Except all the times he doesn't.

Downside to an activated power rather than just innately being accelerated through time.

The text says 4000, the image shows 5. It was 5.

So Goku can only throw two punches, and Luffy is faster than literally anyone? *Raised eyebrow*

Not if you still get hit by them all the time.

Again, look here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forum...proof-1800078/

Are you Asgardian Brony?


Cross board sniping is against the rules...

EDIT: OK, while it's true that Cross-board sniping is against the rules, That stuff is five years old. I admit I might have been hasty and jumped to conclusions.

[Dark Soul # 7]

No, I said if someone from another world has some kind of equivalent spiritual power, they could resist it. Like reiatsu or chakra. Superman has none of that stuff.

Ah yes, soaccording to your incorrect logic only anime characters can fight anime characters. The pieces are puzzling now.

I want to hopefully get some people to listen to reason.

You should say something reasonable then.