Tounament of OP characters nomination thread

[The MunchKING]

Ah yes, soaccording to your incorrect logic only anime characters can fight anime characters. The pieces are puzzling now.

I mean there are other spiritual esoterics in American comics. I think that may be pushing his position a bit too far.

[XZJACK]

Why would fighting be distinct?

Because it requires a special type of skill. If you have all of these characters doing all of this silly stuff at super speed, yet they still get hit by normal humans, that shows me that they don't have combat speed.

Downside to an activated power rather than just innately being accelerated through time.

So low combat speed.

So Goku can only throw two punches, and Luffy is faster than literally anyone? *Raised eyebrow*

Goku has thrown a lot more than 2 punches at a time, and Luffy is faster than people who haven't shown comparable combat speed to him.

Are you Asgardian Brony?


Cross board sniping is against the rules...

No, I just found this from a Google search. Very quick.

Ah yes, soaccording to your incorrect logic only anime characters can fight anime characters. The pieces are puzzling now.

No, it's just that they are generally more consistent showing actual combat speed.

You should say something reasonable then.

You first.

I mean there are other spiritual esoterics in American comics. I think that may be pushing his position a bit too far.

I just haven't seen many American comics (certainly not the mainstream DC/Marvel stuff) where combat speed is actually portrayed consistently.

[The MunchKING]

So low combat speed.

No because when he turns the power on, he actually fights at superspeed.

Goku has thrown a lot more than 2 punches at a time,

I'm sure you've got feats for 3-4 punchs in a single panel of the Manga?

I just haven't seen many American comics (certainly not the mainstream DC/Marvel stuff) where combat speed is actually portrayed consistently.

Well that's because they've been around for 50+ years so consistent ANYTHING across that time frame is hard.

[big_adventure]

You don't know what combat speed is.



Faster at irrelevant stuff, not fighting.



And more than that, fighting skill and experience.



Except all the times he doesn't.



Again, let me quote your own board rules:



The text says 4000, the image shows 5. It was 5.



One page of him dodging, compared to all the pages where he gets hit.



He dodged a few punches, that doesn't counter all the times he failed to do so.



Show me then.



I might be able to find it but if I link to the chapter it would be technically piracy since it's licensed.



There's no proof it was 4000 times, the panel only shows 5 afterimages. Also, what you call 'plot', I call 'not having true combat speed'.



For just one page. I mean an entire fight.



Not if you still get hit by them all the time.

Again, look here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forum...proof-1800078/

Everyone will be shocked that you're back with more rule breaking. We don't post links to other discussion sites and we don't take what comes up on other sites as proof here.

We do things in our own way here. This works for some people and doesn't for others. It appears that what you want is people to agree with you that anime/manga always LEET over western comics. And you know what? A majority on this board will agree with you. However, we go strictly by "high-end feats that are consistent with the presentation." And we ignore PIS.

It's explained in the rules, which you continue to ignore.

First, PIS is Plot Induced Stupidity. It's when a character doesn't immediately go for the fight-ender or the kill shot despite being able to. Generally, this happens to prolong the plot. If high-end versions of Flash remembered their speed, nearly every issue would end on the first page. "Wally, there's a bomb somewhere in the city!" (panel of squiggly red lines) (panel of bomb exploding harmlessly in the middle of the ocean). Or "Barry, Captain Cold escaped and is in town and..." (panel of squiggly lines) (panel of a dejected Cold sitting in a prison cell).

It happens a lot with respect to speed in western comics. Buuuuut, it happens all the time in manga and anime as well. People just stand there letting someone charge an attack. They just stand there letting someone transform. They don't make the KO blow when they have the chance, even if it's completely consistent with their character to do it right away, and let their foe act. An example: Resurrection of Freeza, where Vegeta slow walks up for the kill shot on the badly-beaten Freeza, giving him the chance to blow up the planet. Vegeta is too smart to do that. He does dumb things to feed his pride sometimes, but here, he has craved Freeza's death forever and his wife and kid are on the planet. Yet he does it. It happened in the Moro arc, Veggie giving Moro the time to do new stuff when he has no reason to. Gohan lets 2nd form Cell go all chubby, risking the planet. All of those things were done by the author to prolong the scenario. This is PIS. We don't allow it here, because it effectively means "the person I say wins." It, combined with SMvFL (again, please read the rules), is what let Batman be a threat to Superman or Deathstroke be a threat to Wally freaking West.

So, once we remove PIS, Wally West, who has been shown to be able to react in like a yoctosecond, is going to do that, and he's going to move at billions of times the speed of light and then hit the target with a barrage of punches capable of hurting kryptonians. Or phase through and make the person explode. Or simply steal their speed and turn them into a statue. Any of those things would instantly destroy Luffy, for example, who would not know that the fight has started before he dies. Daredevil is more skilled than Wally West, much more skilled. And it wouldn't matter at all in a fight unless the author decided to let him bring that to bear. Here, there is no author doing that, and Wally would just rip Matt's head off and chuck it into space before Matt can come close to firing a single neuron. Superman actually is a pretty skilled fighter - he's certainly bee around long enough, and he's had periods where he's been depowered. But that wouldn't matter against Luffy because at the bell, Superman can run or fly next to Luffy, pull his head off, and throw it into the sun. All well before Luffy can react. It doesn't require skill at all - just his vastly greater strength and speed.

Next is how we use feats. We accept feats that are consistent with the presentation, and we use the high-end feats that are consistent. Wally West is presented as someone with unbelievably massively fast reactions. He has oodles of feats using these reactions, both in combat and not. Some are really really really fast (millions or billions of times light speed). Some are "only" really fast - say, light speed. He has a few where he doesn't use his speed well. We don't base his performance on those low end ones, we just chuck them out as author fiat. We accept the consistent really really really fast ones, because they represent the character well. When Deathstroke hits him, well, nope, we just throw that out because it's stupid.

You clearly don't like western comics - that's fine, more than half the discussion on this board are anime/manga related. That said, high-end Flashes are significantly faster than anyone in any anime or manga that I know of. If a thread is "Wallly West against X" and X is anyone Wally can either hurt or speed steal, Wally is going to win because he can do that before the can even process that the fight has started. If you can't wrap your head around that, well, I suggest you find another place to discuss this. Here isn't going to work for you.

[The MunchKING]

My guy, why are you wasting time writing wall of text, for the equivalent of a rock in your shoe?

Both sides want the other to learn something. A fascinating process.

[XZJACK]

No because when he turns the power on, he actually fights at superspeed.

Scans?

I'm sure you've got feats for 3-4 punchs in a single panel of the Manga?

Sure. Here he hits Moro 6 times in one panel:

https://media.comicbook.com/2020/04/...=600:924,smart

Well that's because they've been around for 50+ years so consistent ANYTHING across that time frame is hard.

Yet even when they reboot continuity these inconsistencies still crop up after a few issues.

Everyone will be shocked that you're back with more rule breaking. We don't post links to other discussion sites and we don't take what comes up on other sites as proof here.

It's a link to a thread showing scans from the comics. That's comic evidence. It doesn't matter what site it's on.

We do things in our own way here. This works for some people and doesn't for others. It appears that what you want is people to agree with you that anime/manga always LEET over western comics. And you know what? A majority on this board will agree with you. However, we go strictly by "high-end feats that are consistent with the presentation." And we ignore PIS.

Sounds like an arbitrary distinction just to let characters with low combat speed have a chance.

It's explained in the rules, which you continue to ignore.

There's a rule that says that I can't link to a post on another board to show scans from a comic as evidence?

First, PIS is Plot Induced Stupidity. It's when a character doesn't immediately go for the fight-ender or the kill shot despite being able to. Generally, this happens to prolong the plot. If high-end versions of Flash remembered their speed, nearly every issue would end on the first page. "Wally, there's a bomb somewhere in the city!" (panel of squiggly red lines) (panel of bomb exploding harmlessly in the middle of the ocean). Or "Barry, Captain Cold escaped and is in town and..." (panel of squiggly lines) (panel of a dejected Cold sitting in a prison cell).

That excuse doesn't fly. A writer can always come up with a way to make a character use their power to the fullest extent. The simplest way is just having another character that can match it.

It happens a lot with respect to speed in western comics. Buuuuut, it happens all the time in manga and anime as well. People just stand there letting someone charge an attack. They just stand there letting someone transform. They don't make the KO blow when they have the chance, even if it's completely consistent with their character to do it right away, and let their foe act. An example: Resurrection of Freeza, where Vegeta slow walks up for the kill shot on the badly-beaten Freeza, giving him the chance to blow up the planet. Vegeta is too smart to do that. He does dumb things to feed his pride sometimes, but here, he has craved Freeza's death forever and his wife and kid are on the planet. Yet he does it.

He was overconfident.

It happened in the Moro arc, Veggie giving Moro the time to do new stuff when he has no reason to. Gohan lets 2nd form Cell go all chubby, risking the planet. All of those things were done by the author to prolong the scenario. This is PIS. We don't allow it here, because it effectively means "the person I say wins." It, combined with SMvFL (again, please read the rules), is what let Batman be a threat to Superman or Deathstroke be a threat to Wally freaking West.

That's not the same. Those are characters making mistakes because of their overconfidence (what you would call CIS)

So, once we remove PIS, Wally West, who has been shown to be able to react in like a yoctosecond, is going to do that, and he's going to move at billions of times the speed of light and then hit the target with a barrage of punches capable of hurting kryptonians. Or phase through and make the person explode. Or simply steal their speed and turn them into a statue. Any of those things would instantly destroy Luffy, for example, who would not know that the fight has started before he dies.

He never does this in the comics. You can't say it's PIS all the time.

Daredevil is more skilled than Wally West, much more skilled. And it wouldn't matter at all in a fight unless the author decided to let him bring that to bear. Here, there is no author doing that, and Wally would just rip Matt's head off and chuck it into space before Matt can come close to firing a single neuron.

I bet in an actual crossover comic, Daredevil would get multiple hits in.

Superman actually is a pretty skilled fighter - he's certainly bee around long enough, and he's had periods where he's been depowered. But that wouldn't matter against Luffy because at the bell, Superman can run or fly next to Luffy, pull his head off, and throw it into the sun. All well before Luffy can react. It doesn't require skill at all - just his vastly greater strength and speed.

Except he doesn't have the combat speed feats to do that. He gets tagged by people way slower than Luffy.

Next is how we use feats. We accept feats that are consistent with the presentation, and we use the high-end feats that are consistent. Wally West is presented as someone with unbelievably massively fast reactions. He has oodles of feats using these reactions, both in combat and not. Some are really really really fast (millions or billions of times light speed). Some are "only" really fast - say, light speed. He has a few where he doesn't use his speed well. We don't base his performance on those low end ones, we just chuck them out as author fiat. We accept the consistent really really really fast ones, because they represent the character well. When Deathstroke hits him, well, nope, we just throw that out because it's stupid.

Except the low end stuff happens just as often as the high end stuff, if not more.

You clearly don't like western comics - that's fine, more than half the discussion on this board are anime/manga related.

That is not true. I just think they are not as powerful.

That said, high-end Flashes are significantly faster than anyone in any anime or manga that I know of.

LOOOOOOLLLLLLL!!!! Hilarious

If a thread is "Wallly West against X" and X is anyone Wally can either hurt or speed steal, Wally is going to win because he can do that before the can even process that the fight has started. If you can't wrap your head around that, well, I suggest you find another place to discuss this. Here isn't going to work for you.

That's your imaginary fantasy version of the Flash and not the real one as he is actually shown in the comics.

[The MunchKING]

Everyone will be shocked that you're back with more rule breaking. We don't post links to other discussion sites and we don't take what comes up on other sites as proof here.

Technically the rule is against board-wars.

What's the policy regarding other boards?
Board-wars are strictly against Rumbles policy here, whether it's with another board here at CBR or another messageboard altogether. We don't want to see Rumbles posters planning or launching attacks on other boards; nor do we tolerate invasions onto Rumbles.
Sometimes posters here who also post on other boards come across posts regarding Rumbles or planning something against Rumbles. If this happens, please do NOT post about it here. We do not need to see a ruckus being raised regarding another board. It is enough, and much prefered, that these be PM'ed to the mods.
Simply put, post as if other boards did not exist. Do not discuss other boards, do not complain about how things go for other boards, and so on. Additionally, decisions and interpretations on these boards have no bearing on Rumbles, and vice versa - standards of evidence and rules differ between boards.

Although it could be considered against the spirit of "post as if other boards don't exist". If he really just wanted you to read the scans and not the actual thread, I could see where that could be considered 'not an active violation'.

Ultimately that's not for me to decide, but I thought I would weigh in.

[XZJACK]

Technically the rule is against board-wars.



Although it could be considered against the spirit of "post as if other boards don't exist". If he really just wanted you to read the scans and not the actual thread, I could see where that could be considered 'not an active violation'.

Ultimately that's not for me to decide, but I thought I would weigh in.

I'm not starting any kind of war. I was just using the scans there as a reference for my arguments.

[Cody]

You don't know what combat speed is.

You have zero sense of irony huh? Combat speed is a sub category of reaction speed. This is why I asked for your age, there is no way even a teen-ager wouldn't know this. Yet you don't seem to possess the maturity to admit that you're wrong

Faster at irrelevant stuff, not fighting.

doesn't have to be specifically fighting if it still involves moving faster than the other can think.

And more than that, fighting skill and experience.

nope. Speed kills when you can move faster than the other can move

Except all the times he doesn't.

All of which are outliers and/or have other caveats going for it via Kryptonite and the like. While when combined with the many instances of moving at super speed, it shows that this scan, and what happens in it, is the norm.

Again, let me quote your own board rules:

This just shows you have a hard time grasping what the rules say, as hyperbole isn't someone with super speed, actively using it. Saying someone like Muhamad Ali has lightning fast reflexes is hyperbole since no one in real life is as fast as lightning. Someone actively counting their punches isn't hyperbole, and you not understanding this is another point for my suspicion that I am conversing with a preteen.

The text says 4000, the image shows 5. It was 5.

The image shows him moving fast, in what world could you possibly think that was it, when he was actively counting up?

One page of him dodging,

In conjunction to all the times he has uses super-speed, as well as blitz other character's like Doomsday and Mongul

compared to all the pages where he gets hit.

That has all these other caveats to them that to suggest it was that simple would be a joke.

He dodged a few punches, that doesn't counter all the times he failed to do so.

It does when those other times involved Kryptonite and the like, while he has shown super speed.

Show me then.

Already have. You show the manga scan of Luffy performing thousands of punches in a single panel. Not a clip, panel.

I might be able to find it but if I link to the chapter it would be technically piracy since it's licensed.

Then upload it to an exterior image site

There's no proof it was 4000 times, the panel only shows 5 afterimages.

What part of "counting" is too hard to get, exactly?

Also, what you call 'plot', I call 'not having true combat speed'.

I suggest you look up "confirmation bias".

For just one page. I mean an entire fight.

Which he has done with mongul, doomsday, other kryptonians, and while performing tasks much more complicated than throwing a punch. Which is all that's needed against someone who is, what? Hundreds of mach speed at best?

Not if you still get hit by them all the time.

Maybe if you ignore the Kryptonite factor, and the fact Superman rarely puts in any effort so he doesn't kill anyone

Again, look here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forum...proof-1800078/

Hilarious you use this site, because if you tried using these arguments on there? You'd be flayed alive just like the OP of that topic was. No really, go on and create a topic on there, claiming Superman has no combat speed. See how well that goes for you.

Heck, do that on ANY forum that debates these characters. See how that will go down.

[Rightoya]

I've never seen Superman or anyone from DC or Marvel fight as fast as Luffy does. If you disagree, show me the scans of it happening.

So you are not just saying that Luffy is faster than Superman, but you are also saying he is faster than Flash and Reverse Flash where a billionth of a second gave Reverse Flash a lead as example:

https://i.imgur.com/A6VjvSY.jpeg

or even better, you say Luffy is faster than Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman and The Darkest Knight, who literally had a fight through the entire time-line of the DC verse as a whole:

[Guy1]

Thread closed for investigation.

[Guy1]

MODERATOR

If A Character Can Move Around And Operate At Super Speed Then They Can Travel And Fight At Superspeed.

Additionally, XZJACK, as you have consistently shown that you blatantly ignore evidence and board rules in this thread, you can stop posting in it.

The thread will remain closed for a little while longer yet before being re-opened.