Dark Web

[Frontier]

I wonder if that's when the decision was made to sideline MJ and try to do a romance between Peter and Felicia again.

I mean, maybe? There wasn't that overt a stuff between them in that story other than her being supportive towards Peter again and we even got the team-up/bonding between Felicia and MJ.

[TinkerSpider]

I mean, maybe? There wasn't that overt a stuff between them in that story other than her being supportive towards Peter again and we even got the team-up/bonding between Felicia and MJ.

I'm thinking yes. It's when Zeb Wells started to overtly sideline MJ, by making her not know it was Peter on the phone and forgetting Peter had told her Ben was back (in an earlier issue written by Wells, even).

Then Thompson wrote the scene where it was Felicia who woke up Peter, not MJ, although she wrote MJ as only happy Peter was awake and willing to bring in any past girlfriend if it meant he was recovering. And the other writers all gave MJ her due and wrote her in character, with nice moments with both Felicia - even outside of the Jed MacKay one shot - and Janine, as well as with Peter.

And then Wells wrote one of the most prosaic, unromantic "let's move in together" scenes ever, where both Peter and MJ appeared pained to even discuss the subject with Peter refusing at first, followed by the glowing deus ex machina.

So I do smell Wells trying to seed Peter and Felicia, only the other writers either didn't get the full memo or wanted to do MJ and the relationship with Peter justice before it was broken apart on a whim again.

I really wish I knew what Wells's problem is with Mary Jane. It's obvious editorial is okay with Mary Jane being the love interest, just don't get too close to the OMD third rail. But he was the only Beyond writer to sideline her and obviously, he built his entire run to date around cutting her out of Peter's life, and only brings her in to either make Peter sad/angry so he'll get beaten up by Tombstone/Vulture/go to work with Norman, or to contrast her lack of caring about him with Felicia, who all of a sudden is giving Peter the pep talks that used to be Mary Jane's stock in trade. So he's not writing this storyline to build up MJ's character/do anything interesting with her because he ignores her for stretches on end - her appearances in ASM 7 and 9 were only because the X-Office wanted to use a civilian character to be a helpless damsel and for some reason they thought MJ would be appropriate. And I highly doubt he's leading to a MJ/Peter reconciliation or he would take more care with her story, but he obviously could not care less about her except as a plot device. Which really is...sad, to treat a character with MJ's importance not only to Peter but to the book's and even comic book history like this.

[Huntsman Spider]

Agree with whoever said Gail Simone.

As I said in another thread, Rainbow Rowell is killing it on She-Hulk. Would be interesting to see what she could do with Spider-Man. She's great at authentic characters and relationships.

I like Jed Mackay, but selfishly want him to stay on the books he's already on. Strange and Moon Knight are really good reads, IMO.

Jeremy Adams, who writes The Flash for DC, definitely has all the right stuff for an amazing (pun intended) Spider-Man.

Patrick Gleason was at the top of the writers for Beyond, interested to see what he would do as a sole writer (and the art would be great, although pulling double duty would be tough).

I know Tom Taylor is very controversial right now and I think he's under exclusive to DC, but I enjoyed his Friendly Neighborhood run (I know it wasn't everyone's cup of coffee but I liked his take on Peter and his cast) and I really liked Dark Ages (which was obviously cut short).

JMD can come back any time he likes; I'm usually anti-bringing back the same old, same old but I make an exception for him. His Ben Reilly book was a best book of the year for me. I think his style is his style - like Gaiman's style is his style - and it has nothing to do with being modern but whether you like that style or not.

Based on his Nightwing thus far, I'd agree with you that he could (and did) write a great --- or at least decent --- Spider-Man/Peter Parker. Even if Dick/Babs isn't my utter favorite of Nightwing's romances, I can appreciate and respect that Taylor put an end to the vicious cycle of breakups and makeups between them, especially putting the kibosh on the whole "break up to protect my love interest from my enemies" tripe. Spider-Man could definitely learn from that.

[Lukmendes]

To be honest who even is an option for taking over ASM? Wells felt like an editorial choice but who else is there?

I don't see Cates doing it anytime soon.

I hear he's having family problems and will be dropping Hulk and Thor runs, so no.

I guess Ewing? I don't know if he'd want it or if Marvel feels confident giving it to him.

Isn't he writing a million other comics?

Duggan? Maybe. He just got Iron Man but I'm not sure if he's hankering for an ASM run.

Writing X-Men and Iron Man alongside ASM looks tough.

I don't know if Aaron will still be at Marvel once he wraps his Avengers and Punisher stuff. I wouldn't him on Spider-Man anyways.

Eh, fact that Aaron might be a possibility sounds annoying, I wouldn't want this to happen for real:



(Spider-Man#25).

Gillen? Yeah, no .

I don't know enough of Gillen, why not to him?

Jed McKay? I'm not as thrilled about his writing skills as some. JMD is on the payroll but as much as I love the guy I don't know if his writing sensibilities are in tune with modern comic book writing styles.

Or if he can even keep up with ASM's schedule lol.

I'm really lukewarm on Slott's Spider-Man, but I have to disagree there. When the option presented itself, between both Renew Your Vows and even his Spider-Man/Human Torch mini-series, Slott has shown that he's perfectly capable of writing a married Spider-Man. He is definitely a company man, but I think people are off-base with accusing him of being Anti-Marriage or Anti-MJ over the years. After his run, he even said the reason he barely used MJ or wrote the two into a relationship was that he knew it would immediately create this false expectation that he'd reverse OMD....which kind of got validated with how that Spencer run turned out.

To be fair, apples and oranges, since Spencer's run was building up in a way that looked like something OMD related was gonna be done since Kindred started to talk about some vague sin Spidey committed, if he didn't do any of that, fan expectations wouldn't be as high.

Cates definitely wants it (or wanted it a few years ago), but he also wants to be liked (or at least deal with the kind of crap that ASM writers get online). That's not a great combination given the scrutiny ASM writers get.

Why's that even a thing people keep mentioning? ASM writers only ever get **** on when the run sucks, it's the consequence of writing something popular.

Also "Cates wants to be liked" isn't gonna work that well after that boring ass Hulk run... I even find it funny how there's a few similarities between it and Wells' ASM.

Don't know how the others feel about it.

I'd be surprised if Hickman showed an interest in writing ASM at any point.

Jeremy Adams, who writes The Flash for DC, definitely has all the right stuff for an amazing (pun intended) Spider-Man.

Huh? But Wally is happy there, Spider-Man can't be happy, that's Anti-Marvel.

I know Tom Taylor is very controversial right now and I think he's under exclusive to DC, but I enjoyed his Friendly Neighborhood run (I know it wasn't everyone's cup of coffee but I liked his take on Peter and his cast) and I really liked Dark Ages (which was obviously cut short).

I honestly wouldn't want him writing ASM, like, even when he gets a character's voice well enough, I find his writing to be really, really boring in general, like a worse MacKay.

Though I'll take his "harmless boring" over Wells' "harmful boring" all day if those are the only options lol.

Also, why's Taylor controversial right now?

I really wish I knew what Wells's problem is with Mary Jane. It's obvious editorial is okay with Mary Jane being the love interest, just don't get too close to the OMD third rail. But he was the only Beyond writer to sideline her and obviously, he built his entire run to date around cutting her out of Peter's life, and only brings her in to either make Peter sad/angry so he'll get beaten up by Tombstone/Vulture/go to work with Norman, or to contrast her lack of caring about him with Felicia, who all of a sudden is giving Peter the pep talks that used to be Mary Jane's stock in trade. So he's not writing this storyline to build up MJ's character/do anything interesting with her because he ignores her for stretches on end - her appearances in ASM 7 and 9 were only because the X-Office wanted to use a civilian character to be a helpless damsel and for some reason they thought MJ would be appropriate. And I highly doubt he's leading to a MJ/Peter reconciliation or he would take more care with her story, but he obviously could not care less about her except as a plot device. Which really is...sad, to treat a character with MJ's importance not only to Peter but to the book's and even comic book history like this.

My theory is that MJ is seen as just a goal, being together with her means Spidey is absolutely happy (Ignoring that the marriage itself had that not being the case), and he doesn't want Spidey like that.

Like, in some interview from a few months ago, I think he said that since comics are a never ending medium, characters can't get a happy ending, or be happy for too long, which, sure, but that doesn't mean they have to go through poorly written angst porn.

So yeah, if MJ is seen as someone who can make Spidey too happy, that goes against an edgelord like Wells wants.

It could also be shipping related, but I'm not sure if he ships Spidey with anyone either, and as much as there's a theory that Felicia is a favorite, well:



(ASM#630).

This is by Wells back in BND, and maybe Felicia is being a bitch because it's what editorial mandated (She was distant with every writer), but it could maybe be indication of what Wells thinks of Felicia, but who knows... Regardless, I wouldn't think of him supposedly getting Spidey together with Felicia to be an indication of anything.

Based on his Nightwing thus far, I'd agree with you that he could (and did) write a great --- or at least decent --- Spider-Man/Peter Parker. Even if Dick/Babs isn't my utter favorite of Nightwing's romances, I can appreciate and respect that Taylor put an end to the vicious cycle of breakups and makeups between them, especially putting the kibosh on the whole "break up to protect my love interest from my enemies" tripe. Spider-Man could definitely learn from that.

Uh, no.

Spidey may do that in other media like Raimi's movies, and he did that in Spidey Home 3 too, but in the comics he never really breaks up with anyone to protect from enemies.

Like at best he may have considered to do that with MJ during the marriage, but ultimately he decided against it if that was the case.

Spidey is not giving up on being Spider-Man, and if the woman knows he's Spider-Man and understands the danger, he keeps dating 'em, and hell, he keeps dating the woman even when she doesn't know about the danger lol.

[Huntsman Spider]

I hear he's having family problems and will be dropping Hulk and Thor runs, so no.



Isn't he writing a million other comics?



Writing X-Men and Iron Man alongside ASM looks tough.



Eh, fact that Aaron might be a possibility sounds annoying, I wouldn't want this to happen for real:



(Spider-Man#25).



I don't know enough of Gillen, why not to him?



Or if he can even keep up with ASM's schedule lol.



To be fair, apples and oranges, since Spencer's run was building up in a way that looked like something OMD related was gonna be done since Kindred started to talk about some vague sin Spidey committed, if he didn't do any of that, fan expectations wouldn't be as high.



Why's that even a thing people keep mentioning? ASM writers only ever get **** on when the run sucks, it's the consequence of writing something popular.

Also "Cates wants to be liked" isn't gonna work that well after that boring ass Hulk run... I even find it funny how there's a few similarities between it and Wells' ASM.



I'd be surprised if Hickman showed an interest in writing ASM at any point.



Huh? But Wally is happy there, Spider-Man can't be happy, that's Anti-Marvel.



I honestly wouldn't want him writing ASM, like, even when he gets a character's voice well enough, I find his writing to be really, really boring in general, like a worse MacKay.

Though I'll take his "harmless boring" over Wells' "harmful boring" all day if those are the only options lol.

Also, why's Taylor controversial right now?



My theory is that MJ is seen as just a goal, being together with her means Spidey is absolutely happy (Ignoring that the marriage itself had that not being the case), and he doesn't want Spidey like that.

Like, in some interview from a few months ago, I think he said that since comics are a never ending medium, characters can't get a happy ending, or be happy for too long, which, sure, but that doesn't mean they have to go through poorly written angst porn.

So yeah, if MJ is seen as someone who can make Spidey too happy, that goes against an edgelord like Wells wants.

It could also be shipping related, but I'm not sure if he ships Spidey with anyone either, and as much as there's a theory that Felicia is a favorite, well:



(ASM#630).

This is by Wells back in BND, and maybe Felicia is being a bitch because it's what editorial mandated (She was distant with every writer), but it could maybe be indication of what Wells thinks of Felicia, but who knows... Regardless, I wouldn't think of him supposedly getting Spidey together with Felicia to be an indication of anything.



Uh, no.

Spidey may do that in other media like Raimi's movies, and he did that in Spidey Home 3 too, but in the comics he never really breaks up with anyone to protect from enemies.

Like at best he may have considered to do that with MJ during the marriage, but ultimately he decided against it if that was the case.

Spidey is not giving up on being Spider-Man, and if the woman knows he's Spider-Man and understands the danger, he keeps dating 'em, and hell, he keeps dating the woman even when she doesn't know about the danger lol.

The last part did backfire horribly (and fatally) with the ever-lamented Gwen Stacy, though I do concede your point. As for Wells wanting Spider-Man to be a miserable slog because if he was happy, that would be the end of the story . . . that sounds a lot like Dan DiDio, continuing the DC parallels and comparisons, and we all know what happened to him at the end.

[Frontier]

Isn't he writing a million other comics?

He's writing quite a bit. Mostly stuff he seems interested.

Writing X-Men and Iron Man alongside ASM looks tough.

I think he implied he'd be done with X-Men by the end of the year.

I don't know enough of Gillen, why not to him?

He seems to prefer high-concept, complex, or intricate titles than the kind of straightforward Superhero fair one would expect from a Spidey book.

I honestly wouldn't want him writing ASM, like, even when he gets a character's voice well enough, I find his writing to be really, really boring in general, like a worse MacKay.

Though I'll take his "harmless boring" over Wells' "harmful boring" all day if those are the only options lol.

Also, why's Taylor controversial right now?

Other than peoples' writing issues with him I think there was a big blow-up about Duke Thomas not being on the Batfamily cover for Nightwing and twitter kind of turned on him.

[Xwho]

There are sill two more issues of the Gold Goblin after dark web, do you think he will still be the Gold Goblin after?

[Huntsman Spider]

He's writing quite a bit. Mostly stuff he seems interested.

I think he implied he'd be done with X-Men by the end of the year.

He seems to prefer high-concept, complex, or intricate titles than the kind of straightforward Superhero fair one would expect from a Spidey book.

Other than peoples' writing issues with him I think there was a big blow-up about Duke Thomas not being on the Batfamily cover for Nightwing and twitter kind of turned on him.

Oh . . .

There are sill two more issues of the Gold Goblin after dark web, do you think he will still be the Gold Goblin after?

For as long as Marvel thinks it can milk the concept, yeah.

[Lukmendes]

The last part did backfire horribly (and fatally) with the ever-lamented Gwen Stacy, though I do concede your point.

And even after Gwen he didn't stop anyways lol.

Granted, he had less reasons to stop doing that, no one else knew he was Spider-Man, it took until the likes of Harry and Venom to know he's Spidey, and by that point he was already with MJ.

As for Wells wanting Spider-Man to be a miserable slog because if he was happy, that would be the end of the story . . . that sounds a lot like Dan DiDio, continuing the DC parallels and comparisons,

**** like that is why I say comic books are like soap operas lol.

Still though, 2000's edginess mentality of "Needs to be gritty and miserable to be deep" still isn't gone, and Spidey is getting screwed over by that still, like, I understand Spidey can't be too happy, but the opposite should be true too.

Ultimately the best way to handle a story is to be flexible, doing one thing only is bad, if Spidey is happy all the time, then he's boring, if he's miserable all the time, then he's boring and/or annoying.

Give him enough happiness and then screw him over in some way, make him miserable but then give him a good, happy point, mix those and the story gets tragedy that actually affects the reader, because only misery makes the reader stop caring.

and we all know what happened to him at the end.

Him being possibly fired?

I do hear he'll be helping Frank Miller write comics, so DiDio must be happy being involved with someone so into bad angst porn.

I think he implied he'd be done with X-Men by the end of the year.

Huh, wonder who'll take it over next.

But if he writes ASM, man, the way he wrote MJ in that Free Comic Book Day 2022 Avengers/X-Men was, bad, and if he writes her like that more I'm not interested.

His Spidey in Gala was pretty whatever too.

He seems to prefer high-concept, complex, or intricate titles than the kind of straightforward Superhero fair one would expect from a Spidey book.

Huh, explains why he's writing Eternals, and making that Judgement Day event.

Other than peoples' writing issues with him I think there was a big blow-up about Duke Thomas not being on the Batfamily cover for Nightwing and twitter kind of turned on him.

And is that really his fault? Wouldn't it be the artist's or editorial's fault?

There are sill two more issues of the Gold Goblin after dark web, do you think he will still be the Gold Goblin after?

For a while, maybe, but he'll probably go back to being Green Goblin like Otto went back to being, well, Otto lol.

[TinkerSpider]

I
My theory is that MJ is seen as just a goal, being together with her means Spidey is absolutely happy (Ignoring that the marriage itself had that not being the case), and he doesn't want Spidey like that.

Like, in some interview from a few months ago, I think he said that since comics are a never ending medium, characters can't get a happy ending, or be happy for too long, which, sure, but that doesn't mean they have to go through poorly written angst porn.

So yeah, if MJ is seen as someone who can make Spidey too happy, that goes against an edgelord like Wells wants.

It could also be shipping related, but I'm not sure if he ships Spidey with anyone either, and as much as there's a theory that Felicia is a favorite, well:

This is by Wells back in BND, and maybe Felicia is being a bitch because it's what editorial mandated (She was distant with every writer), but it could maybe be indication of what Wells thinks of Felicia, but who knows... Regardless, I wouldn't think of him supposedly getting Spidey together with Felicia to be an indication of anything.

The really weird thing is that Wells - in the same interview you mention and then again in the new podcast interview - names JMD and JMS as his favorite Spidey runs after Lee/Ditko.

And those are two runs where Peter & MJ are happily married.

So either his reading comprehension is whack - always a possibility - or…well, there is no “or.”

Wells can’t write women, period, so I’m not taking his depiction of Felicia to mean anything. He’s like Slott, he’ll change her characterization to suit his plot, like he’s taken Mary Jane from her life of the party, vivacious self and turned her into an expressionless zombie.

[Huntsman Spider]

And even after Gwen he didn't stop anyways lol.

Granted, he had less reasons to stop doing that, no one else knew he was Spider-Man, it took until the likes of Harry and Venom to know he's Spidey, and by that point he was already with MJ.



**** like that is why I say comic books are like soap operas lol.

Still though, 2000's edginess mentality of "Needs to be gritty and miserable to be deep" still isn't gone, and Spidey is getting screwed over by that still, like, I understand Spidey can't be too happy, but the opposite should be true too.

Ultimately the best way to handle a story is to be flexible, doing one thing only is bad, if Spidey is happy all the time, then he's boring, if he's miserable all the time, then he's boring and/or annoying.

Give him enough happiness and then screw him over in some way, make him miserable but then give him a good, happy point, mix those and the story gets tragedy that actually affects the reader, because only misery makes the reader stop caring.



Him being possibly fired?

I do hear he'll be helping Frank Miller write comics, so DiDio must be happy being involved with someone so into bad angst porn.



Huh, wonder who'll take it over next.

But if he writes ASM, man, the way he wrote MJ in that Free Comic Book Day 2022 Avengers/X-Men was, bad, and if he writes her like that more I'm not interested.

His Spidey in Gala was pretty whatever too.



Huh, explains why he's writing Eternals, and making that Judgement Day event.



And is that really his fault? Wouldn't it be the artist's or editorial's fault?



For a while, maybe, but he'll probably go back to being Green Goblin like Otto went back to being, well, Otto lol.

Valid points on the need to maintain a certain balance between cheer and gloom.

[Lukmendes]

The really weird thing is that Wells - in the same interview you mention and then again in the new podcast interview - names JMD and JMS as his favorite Spidey runs after Lee/Ditko.

And those are two runs where Peter & MJ are happily married.

Huh.

So either his reading comprehension is whack - always a possibility - or…well, there is no “or.”

Well...



(Avenging Spider-Man#11).

If someone reads KLH and comes up with this, either they can't read, have bad memory, or just wanna discredit characters, or a mix of the options.

Wells can’t write women, period, so I’m not taking his depiction of Felicia to mean anything. He’s like Slott, he’ll change her characterization to suit his plot, like he’s taken Mary Jane from her life of the party, vivacious self and turned her into an expressionless zombie.

Sure, but, generally people who do shipping wars write their favorite in a way that looks more favorable and **** over the other, and if the editorial mandate to make Felicia be a bitch wasn't too strong (Assuming there was one at all), he's not doing Felicia any favors here, and if so, maybe she's not a favorite either, might be just "dislikes MJ more".

Valid points on the need to maintain a certain balance between cheer and gloom.

Yeah balance is necessary, and while I think Ditko's and Lee's run on Spidey had a lot of writing issues, they were smart enough to let Spidey win and lose in a more balanced way, so stories could end in a "For ****'s sake, my life sucks", or "Nice, I got what I wanted and some money while I was at it!", that kept stories more unpredictable over whether or not Spidey was gonna win and get what he wants, win and feel like ****, or just lose.

Not to mention, a proper balance of those things is what made ASM#17/18/19 trilogy more balanced in how and cheerful in how Spidey wins at the end, and of course, the most popular story from Ditko's run is Master Planner trilogy, where Spidey unambiguously wins after working very hard to prevent aunt May from dying 'cause of his radioactive blood.

[Frontier]

And is that really his fault? Wouldn't it be the artist's or editorial's fault?

Tell that to twitter. Or people's unreasonable Batfamily opinions .

[Lunala]

Zeb Wells might have felt a connection to the antagonists in those runs. Some readers favor villains and speed read the hero sections.

[Mercwmouth12]

According to a someone on Twitter they heard zeb say we won't get any mystery reveals or MJ relationship fix or start of a resolution till after dark web ends and Peter and Felecia are already a thing with no build up

https://youtu.be/0v7kX_D8lqo