Justice League #75 Discussion/Spoilers

[Ilan Preskovsky]

More pages? This comic could have been a single panel.

And not in the fun way, like that recent issue of Nightwing.

[Mai Zen]

Yeah, I think you are right. I think he even asked Constantine to take care of Zatanna before dying.

It's more like Giovanni would cursing Constantine if something bad happened to Zatanna.



I guess it's combination of morality, power, popularity (and all of them are leaguers) when House of Heroes choose their champions. Although It's also said they would call more heroes if the house isn't damaged

[Rikdad]

I've just sampled reviews of this issue, simply beginning at the top and going down, and the first three I hit rated it:

9 of 10.
7 of 10.
5 of 5.

I'll be blunt, keeping in mind that what we like is always subjective: Anyone rating this issue this 9/10 or 5/5 has embarrassed themselves publicly. I can't see that and think, well, we have different tastes and we like different things. Anyone giving this a 5/5 is either being openly dishonest for the sake of building clout within the industry or has been dishonest for so long that they lost track of what honest is.

The Dark Knight Returns is 5/5. Batman: Year One is 5/5. Alan Moore's best stories are 5/5. I wouldn't even give Kingdom Come 5/5, but certainly allow for the fact that a lot of people would.

Anyone who looks at this issue and thinks that the scale of what's good tops out at this issue is really doing a disservice to everyone involved. In the same way that someone who sells a car that doesn't run is doing a disservice to the buyer. Sure, a broken car ruins a person's day (or perhaps year or even life) in a way that a bad comic book cannot, but this sort of perpetual grade inflation is going hand in hand with the comics being not worth reading.

What those reviews tell me is that the reviewers are really rating comics on a scale of about 0 to 3, then adding 7 and calling it "out of 10." Their 7 is a 0. Their 9 is a 2. And it's still not accurate, because this issue wasn't a 2 out of 3. A random issue of Detective where Batman catches a drug dealer might be 2 out of 3.

The cost of this issue was whatever it says on the cover, which is $5.99.

The opportunity cost is: You and I don't get the issue that DC could have had written, drawn, and published this week. It might have been as good as Joe Kelly's "Obsidian Age." It might have been as good as Grant Morrison's "Rock of Ages." It could have been something new that we would have loved and remembered and told people that they had to read and then we could share that experience with them. Not getting that is what the cost of this issue was. And when a reviewer gives this issue 9/10 or 5/5 they tell you that you don't deserve an experience like that.

Someone pointed out that Joshua Williamson had four issues published on the same day. I'd rather have one that is really good. There are already tens of thousands of mediocre comic book issues available to read, and hundreds of very, very good ones. The only value being added is to make it more worthwhile to read this new one than one of those old ones. That's success or failure and this was a failure.

Those reviewers should be embarrassed. They've taken something from you.

[gambit2051]

Those reviewers should be embarrassed. They've taken something from you.

People are hired and considered Reliable Critics simply for the number of Followers They Have now a days....Business Media has honestly never been happier. They can Buy a Review and call it Sponsored Content now...and Critical Thinking is NOT something encouraged by too many Parents over the past 50 years...sigh

Honestly, the response reminds me a lot of the divisive response to The Batman...that was a BAD movie. I was Laughing out loud for all the wrong reasons while watching...most of it is pretty unwatchable though simply bc of how much of your Brain the WB is expecting you to Turn Off while watching...that mentality of the WB infested DC Comics awhile ago and we are finally seeing the results of what happens when that is allowed to dominate a Company about TELLING STORIES...the Executives took over the Editors Room at DC.

Meanwhile, at Marvel, some how, even with Perlmutter STILL having power...they are the more Progressive Company and their Previews Catalog is well over 70 pages a month...

[jpmst17]

This issue was pretty bad. Not really enjoyable at all, and the "deaths" aren't legit. If they wanted an opportunity for other younger characters to shine, I'm for that, but don't insult me with whatever this heap of garbage was.

[Captain Nostalgia]

I've just sampled reviews of this issue, simply beginning at the top and going down, and the first three I hit rated it:

9 of 10.
7 of 10.
5 of 5.

I'll be blunt, keeping in mind that what we like is always subjective: Anyone rating this issue this 9/10 or 5/5 has embarrassed themselves publicly. I can't see that and think, well, we have different tastes and we like different things. Anyone giving this a 5/5 is either being openly dishonest for the sake of building clout within the industry or has been dishonest for so long that they lost track of what honest is.

The Dark Knight Returns is 5/5. Batman: Year One is 5/5. Alan Moore's best stories are 5/5. I wouldn't even give Kingdom Come 5/5, but certainly allow for the fact that a lot of people would.

Anyone who looks at this issue and thinks that the scale of what's good tops out at this issue is really doing a disservice to everyone involved. In the same way that someone who sells a car that doesn't run is doing a disservice to the buyer. Sure, a broken car ruins a person's day (or perhaps year or even life) in a way that a bad comic book cannot, but this sort of perpetual grade inflation is going hand in hand with the comics being not worth reading.

What those reviews tell me is that the reviewers are really rating comics on a scale of about 0 to 3, then adding 7 and calling it "out of 10." Their 7 is a 0. Their 9 is a 2. And it's still not accurate, because this issue wasn't a 2 out of 3. A random issue of Detective where Batman catches a drug dealer might be 2 out of 3.

The cost of this issue was whatever it says on the cover, which is $5.99.

The opportunity cost is: You and I don't get the issue that DC could have had written, drawn, and published this week. It might have been as good as Joe Kelly's "Obsidian Age." It might have been as good as Grant Morrison's "Rock of Ages." It could have been something new that we would have loved and remembered and told people that they had to read and then we could share that experience with them. Not getting that is what the cost of this issue was. And when a reviewer gives this issue 9/10 or 5/5 they tell you that you don't deserve an experience like that.

Someone pointed out that Joshua Williamson had four issues published on the same day. I'd rather have one that is really good. There are already tens of thousands of mediocre comic book issues available to read, and hundreds of very, very good ones. The only value being added is to make it more worthwhile to read this new one than one of those old ones. That's success or failure and this was a failure.

Those reviewers should be embarrassed. They've taken something from you.

Reviewers today have ambitions that are to attached to the industry....so you don't get an honest review.

The issue sucked plain and simple, it was rushed with no build up. They killed Superman and the trinity off in one panel. Superman one panel!!!...or was it 2 before he turned into a husking skull.

At the end of the day they just care about introducing their adapted 5g more than anything else.

I recommend that the kiddies use the S word for this one. No not that S word....though the issue would make for good toilet paper.

[Robotman]

Art was good. That’s about it. Nothing we haven’t seen a million times. An ultra powerful villain wants to destroy reality and remake it “the right way”.

The only intrigue of the book was to see how they Justice League members would die. And that wasn’t very interesting.

I still don’t get why Williamson was given the keys to the kingdom. He’s an ok writer but wouldn’t be someone I’d pick to write an event book let alone a Crisis.

I don't get it, why does Pariah even need Dark Army (especially so nerfed), if he could just "teleport" JL members immediately, just like he did it with Barry?
Anyway, I expected something more brutal.

Yeah he took out the whole League with a wave of his hand. He doesn’t need backup.

I guess he just wanted to keep the other powerhouses out of the way.

[ZuLuLu]

If you were reading Infinite Frontier and Justice League Incarnate the built up was there, however, given that we knew the JL was going to 'die' in this issue how they die needed to be compelling enough to increase anticipation of the Dark Crisis event and I feel like this issue didn't achieve that.

That said I am still looking forward to Dark Crisis, only because I like the idea of an even where the big 7 are not the main focus and generally I've liked most of Williamson's work so far.

[Kirk Brent]

At the risk of having an unpopular opinion, I have to say this regarding JLA #75, all of Snyder's output (except for his early New 52 stuff) and Tom King's work: character and narrative are secondary to personal indulgence.

In the case of Snyder, I feel like most of his content is a guy doing simply what he feels is cool. Not what works best for the characters, not what honors their past and their potential, simply what he would do if he were writing a fanfic. Even worse, a lot of his Dark stuff feels like something a kid puts together while playing with their action figures. "Batman and the Justice League are going to fight dinosaurs and then Batman will have a mech suit and now the whole JL will have mech suits and then fight evil versions of Batman and themselves and I'll throw in a monster truck that's also Batman and then..." And so forth and so on.

Tom King's work reads like a severely depressed man's personal journal written as comic books. I mean that with the utmost respect for people who struggle with depression. I've been struggling with it for decades. I feel he should get some help instead of working his issues out in comics (a fact he admitted to back when he started Heroes In Crisis) and come back when he's able to divide himself from the work.

Finally, this issue felt like something even worse than personal indulgence superseding responsibility to icons almost a century old: professional mandate. "We need to get these characters together to kill them off so we can do a story focused on the next generation taking over." It's completely disposable and probably won't even be needed to read Dark Crisis, assuming many people will. Williamson is capable of better (I enjoyed his early Rebirth Flash work) and it's a shame to see him put his name on something so utterly forgettable and ultimately irrelevant.

Mark Waid and Dan Mora, meanwhile, are writing the best comic at DC right now.

[Menacer]

The Death of this Forum is more like it.

Not only is everyone on here a critic, your all miserable and possibly dead inside.

The issue was classic fun not necessarily divoid of all flaws but loads of fun.

The death of the league reminded me of how the classic heroes were killed off quickly in the first page of new52 Earth II volume 1 and then we get a few more volumes of the actual story.

Nothing wrong with that. Like things for what they are, not for what you want them to be. Or maybe get into comic book writing yourself, write some fan fiction if your so desperate to be at the wheel.

I for one trust Williamson to BUILD a story over many one shots and issues of the actual story.

This was a Prelude. This is how preludes are. Abrupt and to the point.

We all knew what was gonna happen here, more or less and apparently people dont know how to just enjoy things anymore.

This was an easy and fun read for me and definently got me excited and itching for the MAIN ACTUAL story.

4/5 stars

[sifighter]

Can I say something likely controversial? Screw it im already talking in this anyway

I liked this Death for Green Arrow more then I did his 90’s death (the arm being trapped in a bomb above metropolis). I mean here he definitely goes out his cheesy self being heroic to save the multiverse with an amazing arrow shot where the rest of the league can’t even reach Pariah.

[Redjack]

i liked it. it was fun. and the art was pretty.

[Robotman]

Can I say something likely controversial? Screw it im already talking in this anyway

I liked this Death for Green Arrow more then I did his 90’s death (the arm being trapped in a bomb above metropolis). I mean here he definitely goes out his cheesy self being heroic to save the multiverse with an amazing arrow shot where the rest of the league can’t even reach Pariah.

I have a feeling he’s not dead. Ollie is definitely going to be on the shelf for a long time but I think he survived. Not sure if they’re going to have Conner Hawke take his place or what. Conner checks a lot of diversity boxes and would fit right in with the 5G League.

[Rikdad]

The Death of this Forum is more like it.
apparently people dont know how to just enjoy things anymore.

Everyone's experience is different, but I started my comments off by mentioning an earlier story, Joe Kelly's Obsidian Age, which killed off the JLA but did it thoughtfully and well. We have a story that did it well in 2002 and a story that did it badly, lazily, predictably in 2022. If the two stories had come out in the opposite order, we would have had a bad story in 2002 and a great story in 2022. It's not the readers that changed, but the comics, and at least as far as this pair of stories went, in a very bad direction.

It wasn't just that the end of this issue was predictable, but virtually every moment in the middle. When John Stewart made his big move, it was predictable that it would fail. When Ollie mentioned chili, it was predictable that he would get sucker punched. It was cliche after cliche.

I suppose if, the moment before a cliche is unveiled, you don't see it coming, then there's no disappointment. If someone saw John Stewart's big move and didn't know that he was going to get beaten on the next page, then that might have been a cool moment. If you read about Ollie making chili and you didn't know that he was about to get sucker punched, then there wouldn't be the disappointment of seeing exactly that happen. But for anyone who's enough previous comics and remembers what happens in them, this was just a litany of predictable cliches.

It's not hard to enjoy good comics, and fortunately there are hundreds if not thousands of them already out there. This just wasn't one of them, and the reasons why it wasn't are easy for us to point out. They'd also be easy to fix if the creators cared to. When the readers care more than the creators, it's a pretty healthy thing to make that known. Expect more and we just might get more. Expect dreck, be thankful for dreck, and we'll get more dreck.

[HsssH]

Can I say something likely controversial? Screw it im already talking in this anyway

I liked this Death for Green Arrow more then I did his 90’s death (the arm being trapped in a bomb above metropolis). I mean here he definitely goes out his cheesy self being heroic to save the multiverse with an amazing arrow shot where the rest of the league can’t even reach Pariah.

I think it is ok to dislike both.