X-Men Monday #154 - Moira or What Have Been

[davetvs]

TBF, I thought Hickman's "villain"(I'd say antagonist would be a better term) Moira on Inferno was fine. I don't remember most people being too upset about it either. It's Percy who made her as a villain feel kinda dumb and cartoonish.

I agree. I liked where Moira went from HoX/PoX - Inferno. It was X Lives/Deaths that made it a mess.

[Jv565]

Moira fans got so screwed out of this.

[sunofdarkchild]

It's not so much here that I see these ridiculous complaints about how Hickman was so good and other writers ruined it while complaining about things that are directly Hickman's ideas. That's more of a thing on Youtube, where there are people who hate everything about Krakoa and yet always praise Hickman and blame everything on other people even though Hickman created everything they seem to hate, from the less heroic and more selfish way the X-Men seem to act, to the tolerance and alliance with major and unrepentant villains like Apocalypse and Sinister, to many of the seedier aspects of Krakoa and even the resurrection protocols. I agree with many of the criticisms of Moira's heel turn and how it was handled, XLives-Deaths being terrible, Excalibur being terrible, and the plot-induced stupidity.

[Devaishwarya]

I agree. I liked where Moira went from HoX/PoX - Inferno. It was X Lives/Deaths that made it a mess.

Same here.

As contrived as that entire retcon to the character is...it was enjoyable up until the end of Inferno and that issue of XDoW.

I maintain that we definitely needed Ewing's Moira X-Book post HoX/PoX...even if he had to tweak his initial pitch to accommodate HiX-Man's revision...to at least see and understand where her mind was at leading into Inferno. Instead they wasted time, paper and ink on that insipid XvFF LS and the Wanda Zombie nonsense cross-over that amounted to absolutely nothing.

I cannot speak for the handful of other Moira fans, but for myself (the last time I saw and remember her was in fetish-wear fighting the Shadow King on Muir Isle then in X-Men 03 in 1991), I will survive.

[Jwyatt]

That's now how I read it. I think White was saying, "If fans keep asking us to write Hellion, we'll eventually give in. So keep messaging us through email and on social media, and never stop until he comes home."

That's the best way to read it!

[Lukmendes]

Yeah, I blame them because they had multiple Omega level mutants and they kept sending their weakest one(Quire) and 2 other far less powerful ones(Domino and Wolverine).Not like they haven't send stronger teams on secret missions, they did it in HOX/POX.I guess it's a larger problem w/ Krakoa being set up the way it is, but they should be easily able to wipe Nimrod w/ their resources.

Specially considering that, Inferno itself is also what shows that Krakoa had 16 attempts to kill Nimrod, Magneto was in two of them, but all he tried to do was launch that base into the sun, and then, in Inferno#4, Magneto is shown to be a pretty deadly counter pick who could maybe have managed to kill Nimrod, since he was managing to overwhelm Nimrod and only lost 'cause that device to neutralize his powers was activated.

Seriously, these motherfuckers can use people for the sake of dying for a cause, Magneto in those attempts to destroy Orchis' base died twice, but they didn't consider to send him, Polaris, and any other power house to fight fucking Nimrod.

Krakoa is either not trying (Which you can guess that's the case when Xavier decides to end attacks on Orchis in Inferno#3) or they're hilariously incompetent (Which you can guess based on how they suck at everything) lol.

So yeah, while I don't exactly blame 'em for failing to prevent Nimrod's awakening, it's pretty fucking dumb Nimrod ain't dead yet yeah.

Also of all people why trust a Mystique who they know isn't happy w/ them...

They showed how dumb they are early on by making her into a council member lol.

Like shit I wouldn't be surprised if Mystique invented backstabbing in Marvel's world, it's probably second nature to her .

Why they let Sinister keep her DNA is also dumb on top of this, keep it someplace safer.

Yeah, if it was said that Xavier and Magneto told Sinister to get rid of Destiny's samples, he pretended to do so but actually kept it, then it'd make some sense, even if it'd still be stupid for them to overtrust Sinister, but at least it wouldn't be as bad as them knowing he has it and be like "Maybe we should get rid of these now" lol.

And yeah the horrendous security is just another thing.

It was less bad in X-Force#1 vol 6 when the villains came up with a complex and cool plan to be able to invade Krakoa and kill Xavier, but aside from that, man, Mystique just walked into Xavier's house and picked Cerebrom and since she's not shown to have found anyone, she probably wouldn't even have to shape shift to need to steal it.

Krakoa is WAY to strong so they need to keep making it weaker to actually have someone pose a threat.

Yeah that's a problem I have with the resurrection cycle, it both makes Krakoa look strong and weak, 'cause since they never have to worry about dying, then they can win any battle by attrition, but since the writers don't have to care about killing characters, we can have usually competent charactes dying at random.

Basically it's the dumb problem of how Wolverine is supposedly a competent fighter, but he gets cut at random in any battle making him look bad, but now it happens with everyone from Krakoa, but with deaths instead.

She doesn't seem enthusiastic about it but yeah

She's not, but seems more so because she's not keen on the idea of trusting someone else, not that she has a problem with Emma herself, and then she decides to play along without much protest anyways.

Also thinking he can trust Emma and that she'd be on their side after she finds out is just hilarious, this and when he brings colossus on the council saying they can trust him as well(although he had no way of knowing that ig)

Can only wonder if they'll ever come up with an excuse why nobody except Sinister knows that Colossus is possessed, at least Emma should know, specially after she learned just how much there are lies in the Quiet Council.

[Rift]

Knowing White, it means Hellion will appear as wallpaper in a Glob Herman story.

On the plus side, Hellion's wallpaper cameo would be the highlight of the book and give people a reason to read it.

[charliehustle415]

I feel editorial is trying to keep the goodwill that was garnered in the early days of Dawn of X, but has squandered a lot of it.

I personally feel Moira X got shitcanned because the entire line changed focus from having a THREE year Krakoa run to a FOREVER Krakoa run.

I can imagine that Moira X would have focused on what she was up to underground as well as what was happening in the various timelines.

All you have to look at is the various plot points in HOX/POX and especially Giant Size X-Men, but after the first six months you can see things falling apart i.e. the different editorial teams were doing their own thing like Fantastic Four and Avengers.

Entire plot points were rewritten even after some books were already published i.e. X-Men FCBD where the prelude of X of Swords was re-scripted.

I think the writing of Moira only happened because they are trying to move away from what Hickman was doing completely.

But then again, what do I know?

[Writerblog]

I feel editorial is trying to keep the goodwill that was garnered in the early days of Dawn of X, but has squandered a lot of it.

I personally feel Moira X got shitcanned because the entire line changed focus from having a THREE year Krakoa run to a FOREVER Krakoa run.

I can imagine that Moira X would have focused on what she was up to underground as well as what was happening in the various timelines.

All you have to look at is the various plot points in HOX/POX and especially Giant Size X-Men, but after the first six months you can see things falling apart i.e. the different editorial teams were doing their own thing like Fantastic Four and Avengers.

Entire plot points were rewritten even after some books were already published i.e. X-Men FCBD where the prelude of X of Swords was re-scripted.

I think the writing of Moira only happened because they are trying to move away from what Hickman was doing completely.

But then again, what do I know?

Well White said that it was Hickman idea that Moira is secretly a villain all along. I don't see reasons to doubt it, it was on Hickman's inferno and Percy followed it on Wolverine event. It was going to be Ewing book

For sure X-men writers and editors are trying to keep the excitement and interest of the early days of Krakoa and they aren't doing a good job on many fronts

[Kurolegacy]

Well White said that it was Hickman idea that Moira is secretly a villain all along. I don't see reasons to doubt it, it was on Hickman's inferno and Percy followed it on Wolverine event. It was going to be Ewing book

For sure X-men writers and editors are trying to keep the excitement and interest of the early days of Krakoa and they aren't doing a good job on many fronts

Sadly that’s what happens when you Leeroy Jenkins off course from a planned storyline into open waters. Things that would have been building blocks of a story just end up amounting to nothing and new plot points just come out if the blue. At this point it just seems like they’re winging the whole thing, just making it up as they go.

[Ambaryerno]

On the plus side, Hellion's wallpaper cameo would be the highlight of the book and give people a reason to read it.

You know White would just attribute the sales to Glob.

[Devaishwarya]

I'm still very excited and interested in the books I'm buying/reading. Which happen to be the three core team books at the moment.

Even as HiX-Man was turning her into a major X-Villain and everyone was on-board with it, which they clearly were...the smarter thing to do would be to let that plot point simmer slowly for a bit before they brought it to a boil. And maybe that was/might have been the plan but with his leaving the X-Office earlier than planned they just decided to turn up the heat on full blast and allow the pressure cooker to explode and burn down the house.

[charliehustle415]

Well White said that it was Hickman idea that Moira is secretly a villain all along. I don't see reasons to doubt it, it was on Hickman's inferno and Percy followed it on Wolverine event. It was going to be Ewing book

For sure X-men writers and editors are trying to keep the excitement and interest of the early days of Krakoa and they aren't doing a good job on many fronts

Oh I don't doubt the heel turn for Moira, but I 100% do not believe (this is a hill I will gladly die on) that Hickman would have had Moira become and overnight skin wearing heel.

Sadly that’s what happens when you Leeroy Jenkins off course from a planned storyline into open waters. Things that would have been building blocks of a story just end up amounting to nothing and new plot points just come out if the blue. At this point it just seems like they’re winging the whole thing, just making it up as they go.

Exactly, I think they're just trying to shut the vocal Hickman fans up and resolve his plots as quickly as possible so they can move on to scintillating & titillating Eternals storyline (being facetious).

[charliehustle415]

I'm still very excited and interested in the books I'm buying/reading. Which happen to be the three core team books at the moment.

Even as HiX-Man was turning her into a major X-Villain and everyone was on-board with it, which they clearly were...the smarter thing to do would be to let that plot point simmer slowly for a bit before they brought it to a boil. And maybe that was/might have been the plan but with his leaving the X-Office earlier than planned they just decided to turn up the heat on full blast and allow the pressure cooker to explode and burn down the house.

you took the words outta my mouth, instead of roasting a turkey low and slow; they tried to deep fry it and blew up the garage and now the house is on fire.

[Kingdom X]

It's not so much here that I see these ridiculous complaints about how Hickman was so good and other writers ruined it while complaining about things that are directly Hickman's ideas. That's more of a thing on Youtube, where there are people who hate everything about Krakoa and yet always praise Hickman and blame everything on other people even though Hickman created everything they seem to hate, from the less heroic and more selfish way the X-Men seem to act, to the tolerance and alliance with major and unrepentant villains like Apocalypse and Sinister, to many of the seedier aspects of Krakoa and even the resurrection protocols. I agree with many of the criticisms of Moira's heel turn and how it was handled, XLives-Deaths being terrible, Excalibur being terrible, and the plot-induced stupidity.

Yeah I do see a lot of comments basically saying Hickman = good, other writers = bad. That was always super odd to me because it was a lot of the other writers who started addressing some of the common complaints about Krakoa ranging from death not having meaning, to clone rights, to adding emotion back into the characters and having them act like superheroes again. I think that despite the complaints about Hickman’s X-Men people were still expecting a run like FF or Avengers that ended in a big Secret Wars like event, and not knowing that this era has an end is rubbing some folks the wrong way.