If You Could Kill Off/Retire *ONE* Green Lantern Who Would You Choose?

[Captain Nostalgia]

I tend to latch onto specific characters more so than franchises as a whole.

I understand, I think most people are like that, which is why I'm not overly huge fan of the practice of creating legacy heroes, as it tends to partition the fanbase and creates for a certain level of toxicity.

I only feel this way because DC has so many characters, but so little room to fit them into titles, so it creates this reasonable fear amongst DC fans that their favourtie will get relegated to obscurity....because more often or not they are....which leads to infighting in the fanbase.

This is why I think fans of Hal or any fans of established characters become defensive or as you say "insecure" about their favourite, because they know what fate awaits if they lose the headliner.

Jessica was actually the character that got me reading anything in the franchise in the first place, so she's my favorite. Also like Simon a lot since he was the co-star and they had a nice friendship.

I should give Jessica Cruz's Green Lanterns run a read sometime. I'm sure I would like the character, I like to crunch sales numbers for fun, so she definitely has sales potential, but at present she's sort of a unkown entity for me.

[Johnny]

There are aggressors on both sides. There are some rather, let’s say “animated” Hal Jordan fans who get extremely upset at DC putting any spotlight on any other Lantern and try to act as though it’s a conspiracy to erase Hal. I recall people getting upset over extremely minor stuff like John being the Justice League’s GL in the Harley Quinn animated series or the Teen Titans Go movie. It does come off as more than a little insecure when, to date, Hal’s had his own big budget live-action movie, an animated movie and a TV show, plus guest or supporting roles in a ton of other cartoons and games. There are characters you can accuse DC of not properly showcasing, but DC clearly gave Hal a fair shake.

That said, there are some rather obnoxious fans of other Lanterns who seem to take pleasure in the perceived misfortune (whether legit or imagined) of Hal fans, which is extremely petty. At the end of the day, he’s a fictional character, so it’s not his fault if he sometimes gets pushed at the expense of the others. Toxic discourse isn’t gonna solve anything or convince anyone.

I think it was more like those people were noticing a pattern of DC pushing Hal to the side and in hindsight that's what happened. First it was Harley Quinn and TTG, now it's Beware My Power and Kill The Justice League or 50th anniversary celebrations when no other specific GL has gotten their own anniversary celebration before, etc. While there's nothing "wrong" with pushing other GLs and characters like John should be celebrated for being around for 50 years, during that process DC stopped promoting Hal altogether and essentially started treating him as a C lister who not only isn't prominently featured anymore but rarely appears in regular publication now. I'm aware of his presence in Dark Crisis, I'm speaking in general. The crap he gets from both fans or creators doesn't help too when no other Lantern gets that kind of treatment from people absolutely free of any consequences.

My issue with all of this has never been about not wanting others to get more spotlight, I understand the nature of the GL franchise and over time everyone should get their turn. The issue is DC/WB destroyed the marketability and reputation of this character, turned him into a meme material and then proceeded to throw him away without bothering to "fix" any of that first. The other side of the problem is Hal being featured in a lot of stuff over the years doesn't necessarily mean all of them did him justice, some of the animated films for instance notably did the opposite. Today he's the only founding JL member who is consistently absent in both comics and adaptations and if he is acknowledged he is either killed off in flashbacks or his content is taken and given to others. This is the kind of thing that creates more fan resentment, not because you don't like to share your toys(some don't, I understand that) but because they destroyed your favorite toy and tossed it aside in order to prop up other toys while using his material to do so, while simultaneously other fans keep acting like you have no business complaining about anything about this character "because others have it worse". In perspective some fans can only take so much and I think it's just easier for people to look at that as a sign of insecurity rather than try to understand where some of those fans might be coming from.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

It's just been my general experience, when I read more of Hal isn't my first choice but I'm still reading GL, I'll change my opinion.

I'll support most GL's, I'm just not interested in Jessica Cruz because she became popular during a period when I quite comics, so when I came back, I was like....man another Green Lantern, do we really need that?

It can become a problematic attitude, though, when it's possessed by people who become comics content creators. Alex Ross and his obsession with the DC status quo of his childhood (and with the SUPER-FRIENDS cartoon) is probably the most infamous example of this; not only does he HATE Kyle Raynor, but he refuses to acknowledge Firestorm as the JLA's legit last member to join before the line-up changed to include Vibe and Gypsy, because Flamehead joined after certain events Ross dislikes from the era of his childhood, i.e. the 70's deaths of Aqua Baby and Iris West Allen.

[Timothy Hunter]

It can become a problematic attitude, though, when it's possessed by people who become comics content creators. Alex Ross and his obsession with the DC status quo of his childhood (and with the SUPER-FRIENDS cartoon) is probably the most infamous example of this; not only does he HATE Kyle Raynor, but he refuses to acknowledge Firestorm as the JLA's legit last member to join before the line-up changed to include Vibe and Gypsy, because Flamehead joined after certain events Ross dislikes from the era of his childhood, i.e. the 70's deaths of Aqua Baby and Iris West Allen.

I don't see anything wrong with an artist sticking to an era of comics that he prefers. I wouldn't have used words as strong "hate" or "refuses" to describe Alex Ross's aversion to characters such as Firestorm or Kyle Rayner. To my knowledge, Ross hasn't explicitly said anything negative about those two characters. The most extreme thing you can say about him is he's apathetic to post-Bronze Age comics.
Alex Ross's preference for the comics of his childhood is harmless, especially given the fact that most of his work is outside continuity anyway.

On the other end of the spectrum, Geoff Johns and Dan DiDio are much more emblematic of problematic nostalgia who bring their favoritism of the Silver Age to the main DC Universe, wiping away the progress made by legacy characters, while still reveling in the most gratuitous tropes of the 90s and 00s.

[j9ac9k]

Just one Hal fan's reaction: I don't have a problem with John (or anyone else) taking the "GL slot" in a Justice League lineup. (for instance, Guy was perfect for JLI) However, when all the other members of the League are the "Big 7" or the founding members except for Hal, I get miffed. I'm not going to bash whatever Lantern they chose to take his slot, but it bugs me to not see Hal with the other founders.

[WebLurker]

I understand, I think most people are like that, which is why I'm not overly huge fan of the practice of creating legacy heroes, as it tends to partition the fanbase and creates for a certain level of toxicity.

I only feel this way because DC has so many characters, but so little room to fit them into titles, so it creates this reasonable fear amongst DC fans that their favourtie will get relegated to obscurity....because more often or not they are....which leads to infighting in the fanbase.

Seeing how most of my favorites are legacies, I honestly don't appreciate the mindset.

This is why I think fans of Hal or any fans of established characters become defensive or as you say "insecure" about their favourite, because they know what fate awaits if they lose the headliner.

From the outside looking, that can feel like an irrational mindset, given how rarely that happens (esp. in Hal's case, where he's not only been the prime character for so long, but also fended off the only true rival for the crown). True or not, does it makes sense why it would seem like that?

I should give Jessica Cruz's Green Lanterns run a read sometime. I'm sure I would like the character, I like to crunch sales numbers for fun, so she definitely has sales potential, but at present she's sort of a unkown entity for me.

It's really good. She was a regular in the New 52 Justice League comics and the "Darkseid War" event, where her origin story was set up. For the most part, the solo series gets you up to speed, so I'd consider it more if you want to be complete or find that you really like the character and want more.

[j9ac9k]

From the outside looking, that can feel like an irrational mindset, given how rarely that happens (esp. in Hal's case, where he's not only been the prime character for so long, but also fended off the only true rival for the crown). True or not, does it makes sense why it would seem like that?

But fans aren't outsiders. Taking an "inside" look from the other side - as a Hal fan - DC already got rid of him once with the intention of keeping it that way. So, we're absolutely prepared for DC to adopt that thinking again, after the movie's failure. We know the bottom line is all that matters, so a blemish like that makes him vulnerable.

[Captain Nostalgia]

It can become a problematic attitude, though, when it's possessed by people who become comics content creators. Alex Ross and his obsession with the DC status quo of his childhood (and with the SUPER-FRIENDS cartoon) is probably the most infamous example of this; not only does he HATE Kyle Raynor, but he refuses to acknowledge Firestorm as the JLA's legit last member to join before the line-up changed to include Vibe and Gypsy, because Flamehead joined after certain events Ross dislikes from the era of his childhood, i.e. the 70's deaths of Aqua Baby and Iris West Allen.

This is true, that’s always been a factor, but I’d rather not have a writer who hates one of my favourite characters including him in his comic book.

Geoffrey Thorne has put out a few tweets about hating Hal Jordan, so I'm pretty sure hardcore Hal fans would prefer that he just doesn't use him.

I think that’s the main reason why we don’t get follow ups on non trinity heroes who have successful runs until decades later (Booster Gold/JSA /Azreal ) because there has to be someone on DC’s creative team who has the desire to write these characters.

Seeing how most of my favorites are legacies, I honestly don't appreciate the mindset.
From the outside looking, that can feel like an irrational mindset, given how rarely that happens (esp. in Hal's case, where he's not only been the prime character for so long, but also fended off the only true rival for the crown). True or not, does it makes sense why it would seem like that?

In my opinion, legacy characters have been the primary driver of toxicity in the DC fanbase, because since the death of Barry Allen, DC has primarily brought them in solely with the intention of replacing an established hero either in their title or on the JLA.

But as you say, they’ve rarely been successful because it causes a revolt in the fanbase. I would say Wally West & maybe Jamie Reyes are the exceptions.
(Mr. Terrific doesn’t count because no one really cared about the original)

I was there in the 90’s when the first wave of legacy heroes came to the forefront, and man....it was toxic.

If they put the same amount of effort into creating and really promoting original heroes who develop their own fanbase, I don't think we'd have any toxcity, because no one would feel threatened that their hero is going to be replaced, or have to share the spotlight with a newer version.

It's really good. She was a regular in the New 52 Justice League comics and the "Darkseid War" event, where her origin story was set up. For the most part, the solo series gets you up to speed, so I'd consider it more if you want to be complete or find that you really like the character and want more.

I’ll probably get around to checking it out at one point. Usually when I start reading a character and get to know them, I like them.

[Holt]

I think it was more like those people were noticing a pattern of DC pushing Hal to the side and in hindsight that's what happened. First it was Harley Quinn and TTG, now it's Beware My Power and Kill The Justice League or 50th anniversary celebrations when no other specific GL has gotten their own anniversary celebration before, etc. While there's nothing "wrong" with pushing other GLs and characters like John should be celebrated for being around for 50 years, during that process DC stopped promoting Hal altogether and essentially started treating him as a C lister who not only isn't prominently featured anymore but rarely appears in regular publication now. I'm aware of his presence in Dark Crisis, I'm speaking in general. The crap he gets from both fans or creators doesn't help too when no other Lantern gets that kind of treatment from people absolutely free of any consequences.

My issue with all of this has never been about not wanting others to get more spotlight, I understand the nature of the GL franchise and over time everyone should get their turn. The issue is DC/WB destroyed the marketability and reputation of this character, turned him into a meme material and then proceeded to throw him away without bothering to "fix" any of that first. The other side of the problem is Hal being featured in a lot of stuff over the years doesn't necessarily mean all of them did him justice, some of the animated films for instance notably did the opposite. Today he's the only founding JL member who is consistently absent in both comics and adaptations and if he is acknowledged he is either killed off in flashbacks or his content is taken and given to others. This is the kind of thing that creates more fan resentment, not because you don't like to share your toys(some don't, I understand that) but because they destroyed your favorite toy and tossed it aside in order to prop up other toys while using his material to do so, while simultaneously other fans keep acting like you have no business complaining about anything about this character "because others have it worse". In perspective some fans can only take so much and I think it's just easier for people to look at that as a sign of insecurity rather than try to understand where some of those fans might be coming from.

I don't propose to play the "There are children starving in Africa" card when I make the comparison to other characters being far worse off. It's only to illustrate that I think some of the accusations are a bit overblown. Again, I get why some fans would be nervous given the wounds of Emerald Twilight are still raw all those decades later... but this is coming on the heels of a Hal Jordan solo run by Grant Fucking Morrison. And while John being off the table is obviously going to be temporary, it seems there are still creators interested in doing stuff with Hal. If he were as much of a pariah (no pun intended) as I see some fans try to make him out to be, I don't think he'd have gotten that. The movie's failure absolutely killed a lot of the momentum DC had built up in trying to establish Hal as one of their A-list icons, I won't deny that, but even after that he was still appearing in stuff very regularly after it bombed.

I'm not saying fans don't have the right to ever be worried, but that I think fandom in general tends to breed conspiratorial thinking that often seems to jump to the worst possible conclusion. Okay, Hal isn't the one the company is pushing as heavily right now. Won't deny that. But given the same would've been said for John literally a few years ago (again, the Morrison penned Hal run ended in 2020) I'll just assume that's the cyclical nature of a franchise with multiple protagonists.

[NathanS]

Because you got folks who think you can ONLY be interested in a franchise if it's the so-called icons or entitled characters that don't have to worry about the barriers OTHERS have to deal with.

Example-I own over 200 Archie books. Some will ASSUME that is due to Archie or Jughead or Betty or Veronica.
No. It was because of Chuck Clayton. Collecting his first appearance, solo OGN and other appearances lead to buying Chip Z's Jughead run.
Cap America. Falcon and I have gone back and collected a ton of CA books including the US Agent run as Cap.
Tim Drake & Duke Thomas are probably the ONLY reason I have Batman books. Outside of 25 cent bins.

The point?

Maybe to get new readers you try someone different. Because sometimes they can open doors for others.

I suppose the debate here is partly, what is more, common for people to become fans of a superhero franchise because of a single character, or to become a fan of that single character and won't bother buying issues where they don't appear? if it's the latter... then things are only naturally going to descend into in-fighting and hard lines being drawn in the fandom. This is more so since a new legacy hero is not likely to show up as 'just another supporting cast member but pushed for at least some time as taking over as the MAIN character. This creates a very different dynamic. One were just showing up isn't good enough since it's them being downgraded and reduced. They deserve to be the center star, after all, it's what they were made to do. I doubt people expect a robin or equivalent like Duke to play main all the time. But Its very different with most GLs.

When you tuned in to say... I don't know the original Star Trek maybe Scotty was your main reason for watching, but you likely didn't expect him to take center stage with any regularity he was made and promoted as a supporting cast member. But Jessica? Kyle? Yeah the people who first encountered them likely did so when they were main characters and kind of expect that to be their default.

[skyvolt2000]

I don't propose to play the "There are children starving in Africa" card when I make the comparison to other characters being far worse off. It's only to illustrate that I think some of the accusations are a bit overblown. Again, I get why some fans would be nervous given the wounds of Emerald Twilight are still raw all those decades later... but this is coming on the heels of a Hal Jordan solo run by Grant Fucking Morrison. And while John being off the table is obviously going to be temporary, it seems there are still creators interested in doing stuff with Hal. If he were as much of a pariah (no pun intended) as I see some fans try to make him out to be, I don't think he'd have gotten that. The movie's failure absolutely killed a lot of the momentum DC had built up in trying to establish Hal as one of their A-list icons, I won't deny that, but even after that he was still appearing in stuff very regularly after it bombed.

Say this again for the folks in the back.

Lets not forget John and Kyle had to have pitches in Round Robin not Hal.

Excluding Justice League Cartoon-the GL we have seen showcased outside of comics was Hal.

A lot New 52 Justice League stuff showcased Hal, Barry, Clark & Bruce. Especially toys-WW, Aquaman and Cyborg got left out until that movie.

How is Hal having it worst that say Cyborg? The Inhumans? Nova-Sam Alexander? Jason Rusch? The 1996 Teen Titans? Black Panther?

What book was Hal erased out of like Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain?

Hal is in better shape than a lot of characters.

[Johnny]

The folks in the back are hearing just fine and if the Inhumans or Nova were outselling Spider-Man the way Hal Jordan outsold Batman for a time I'd be questioning how they're being treated as well. Except for Black Panther in recent years, those characters have never been more than B list at best, so this is a rather misguided comparison. While the Sam Alexander example is particularly ironic when his predecessor was essentially a Hal Jordan clone.

[j9ac9k]

Hal is in better shape than a lot of characters.

There's always someone worse off - you could apply that to almost any situation when you simply don't care about what someone is complaining about. If that were a valid argument, the only person with a right the complain is the one who has it worse off than everyone else.

[John Venus]

Legacy characters are part of what the DCU so rich. Where would the DCU be now without Wolfman/Perez's New Teen Titans, Waid's Flash, Robinson's Starman, Peter David's Young Justice, Robinson/Goyer/Johns JSA, Marz's GL run with Kyle Rayner, or the multi generations of Robins (Dick, Jason, Tim) or Batgirls (Babs, Cass Steph) who all have their own fan bases. Even Hal, Barry and Ray are all legacy characters and even the very concept of 'Justice League' owes itself to 'Justice Society'.

Don't let DC's mismanagement of characters and in some cases spiteful treatment of certain characters convince you that legacies are inherently bad. Legacy has been the thing that has kept the DCU going for as long as it has.

It can become a problematic attitude, though, when it's possessed by people who become comics content creators. Alex Ross and his obsession with the DC status quo of his childhood (and with the SUPER-FRIENDS cartoon) is probably the most infamous example of this; not only does he HATE Kyle Raynor, but he refuses to acknowledge Firestorm as the JLA's legit last member to join before the line-up changed to include Vibe and Gypsy, because Flamehead joined after certain events Ross dislikes from the era of his childhood, i.e. the 70's deaths of Aqua Baby and Iris West Allen.

Ross at least kept his favoritism limited to AU's where he had full control and his nostalgia didn't wreck the DCU.

[Thephantasm]

Hal isn't the only one getting the shaft tho. The entire franchise is left with one book where only John and Jo get attention. The other instance would be the animated film but that's it. Other lanterns have hardly shown up in the comics but Hal has had a lead role in dc vs vampires and last ride. And now he's gonna have a big role in dark crisis.

And lets not forget that some big name writer was supposed to write a hal book for infinite frontier.