If You Could Kill Off/Retire *ONE* Green Lantern Who Would You Choose?

[married guy]

Can't agree with you about Kyle!
Yes, he worked as the last GL, but the Recharge mini showed how great the character can be in the hands of a good writer with a great story.
The interaction between Kyle and Guy was spun gold. I thought it was a missed opportunity when they launched the ongoing in a different direction.
Simon Baz on the other hand is dull as dishwater to me. I am yet to read a story where I have any interest in the character.

[John Venus]

That's... not them being positive about him. That was "This character is so inherently shitty the only good thing about is him is dying and being reduced to a statue people cry over." That is how it was presented. Hal got a VERY similar treatment, with a lot of shifting goalposts. "He had no personality ever he was his Silver Age perfect human from day one who was never presented as an inner life" was an argument, counter that and "Well he had no arc, he was just a perfect hero from day one. All good characters start being bad at it and grow into being a hero." Counter that and "Well he has a personality, but it's just a generic action hero, unlike Kyle who is an everyman and therefore very original and unique or gruff military man, super unique." There is a very real element of "Look at that ******* eating crackers like he owns the place" when it comes to this stuff. It's never enough for a character to be one you just don't like much it must be PROVED that they are inherently bad.

I remember that time, too. Barry was given lip service as being this great hero with the subtext always being that he was this bland, outdated, perfect character and wasn't "hip" like Wally was. They did the same thing with Hal, which was even more obnoxious because Hal was a very imperfect, dysfunctional character.

But as much as I like Wally, those stories definitely treated Barry like he was so lame next to the new, young gen x Flash. They treated him positively on a very shallow level.

Maybe that was the case with some fans but speaking for myself, Barry being the symbol of heroic sacrifice and a geek endeared him to me. Wally was my guy but I respected what Barry represented in a genuine way with no ulterior motives. I only started loathing Barry starting from Flash: Rebirth then Flashpoint then the tv show and everything Nu52 related to him. I had to go back and re read JLA: Year One and New Frontier every time we get a story of Barry breaking the timeline. Hard to believe any Barry Allen fans that followed him pre Flashpoint actually likes what's being done to him now. For me, Jeremy Adams handling of Barry in the first arc of his current run was the first time in a long time that Barry felt readable and enjoyable in the main canon.

Wally spent most of Flash Vol2 trying to live up to Barry's legacy. I don't think Barry was written shallow in those stories nor in his appearances written by Waid and Cooke. It's certainly much better than anything he's gotten since he was brought back.

[Johnny]

I remember that time, too. Barry was given lip service as being this great hero with the subtext always being that he was this bland, outdated, perfect character and wasn't "hip" like Wally was. They did the same thing with Hal, which was even more obnoxious because Hal was a very imperfect, dysfunctional character.

But as much as I like Wally, those stories definitely treated Barry like he was so lame next to the new, young gen x Flash. They treated him positively on a very shallow level.

If nothing else, Barry at least was revered on a surface level, while Hal was thrown away like garbage. It's one of the things that bothers me the most about the usual Hal complaints because they always make it sound like there's something inherently deficient about the character instead of just being upfront that they don't want him around so their favorites can be pushed instead. The careless way people go about about this character is another thing, when the GL Beware My Power trailer came out you saw some people openly gloating on other threads that Hal was killed off or his content was hijacked, while as compared to here when someone previously disagreed with a comment about John being the most popular GL, they still made sure to clarify their comment did not intend to insult John's character. Do you see Hal's character being treated with such consideration? People seem to have no issue insulting him at all. They say whatever they want whenever they want to about him with absolutely no consequence whatsoever, and if they do get any pushback they often turn around and accuse Hal fans of overreacting or being toxic or acting like they have no right to complain about anything that happens to him because "he's had enough". They always try to make it sound like this character is inherently problematic or that nothing his audience says about his treatment can be taken seriously, when it's so transparent what this is really about.

[Refrax5]

If nothing else, Barry at least was revered on a surface level, while Hal was thrown away like garbage. It's one of the things that bothers me the most about the usual Hal complaints because they always make it sound like there's something inherently deficient about the character instead of just being upfront that they don't want him around so their favorites can be pushed instead. The careless way people go about about this character is another thing, when the GL Beware My Power trailer came out you saw some people openly gloating on other threads that Hal was killed off or his content was hijacked, while as compared to here when someone previously disagreed with a comment about John being the most popular GL, they still made sure to clarify their comment did not intend to insult John's character. Do you see Hal's character being treated with such consideration? People seem to have no issue insulting him at all. They say whatever they want whenever they want to about him with absolutely no consequence whatsoever, and if they do get any pushback they often turn around and accuse Hal fans of overreacting or being toxic or acting like they have no right to complain about anything that happens to him because "he's had enough". They always try to make it sound like this character is inherently problematic or that nothing his audience says about his treatment can be taken seriously, when it's so transparent what this is really about.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge Hal fan, too. Liking Hal and Barry, especially since I started reading comics in the 90s, was very tiring. It still is. I can't read a thread about Barry without people going on about how he should die and Wally is so much better, etc. And I like Wally, but that's my whole point. Just because Barry is my favorite doesn't mean I dislike Wally or Jay or want their fans to lose their favorite. Same with Kyle. He doesn't really do it for me personally, but I don't actually want him killed off.

It's the venom you get from these 90s fans that have basically turned into what they always accused silver age fans of.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Hal complaints because they always make it sound like there's something inherently deficient about the character [...]this character is inherently problematic

Some people actually believe that though. As someone who strongly dislikes Jordan (that's actually putting it lightly) and had absolutely no horse in the race until Jo came along, trust me, there's a lot to dislike. And some of the things that make people dislike him are the same ones that appeal to his fans. And that's OK in itself. And as Wally advocate I get what you're saying: the overwhelming support Wallace got from young Barry fans at his debut is fishy at best. But painting everyone as intellectually dishonest on the matter is a little harsh.

I will say this, though: anyone who calls Jordan boring is insane. I wish he was boring.

[BohemiaDrinker]

It's the venom you get from these 90s fans that have basically turned into what they always accused silver age fans of.

Care to give some actual examples? Cause Wally fans have been - myself very much included - tireless in pointing out the wrongs in his treatment, yes. This whole "Wally fans bash Barry", "Wally fans this", "Wally fans that" that Barry fans tirelessly talk about, I don't see so much.

[John Venus]

You never see anyone complain about Jay Garrick or Alan Scott. They've had their bad periods, they've been the face of the franchise once upon a time and at least Jay has been successful in cross media adaptations. Neither are viewed as threats. I wonder why.

[WebLurker]

His entire history pretty much showed how he was the best. All the times he led them to victory, all of his feats and everything.

Okay.

He used his ring in unconventional ways the other guys never thought of.

Thought that was Kyle's thing and one of Hal's traits was that he overused the boxing glove construct?

And along with John, he's the most popular. When he isn't the lead, I tend to lose interest.

Okay.

I like John a lot, but he's written as so stiff by modern writers that he comes across as blander than he should these days.

Thought he was always kinda reserved?

I think Kyle and Simon are the most unremarkable characters. Kyle is in that mold of "young, hip relatable guy" characters from the 90s that feel like they were created by a focus group and I don't even get what Simon is supposed to be. They're fine, but I don't feel like either of them add anything. Kyle really only works when he's the only GL.

I think Simon is another take on the hero who acts before they think, but less of a Han Solo-type than often gets used for such characters. I will concede that I think he's more interesting in a team-up than he is alone.

[BohemiaDrinker]

You never see anyone complain about Jay Garrick or Alan Scott. They've had their bad periods, they've been the face of the franchise once upon a time and at least Jay has been successful in cross media adaptations. Neither are viewed as threats. I wonder why.

Well, outside the obvious fact that they have their own niche as GA heroes and probably won't be the face of their franchises anytime soon, they don't take away from the other versions. The entirety of Hal Jordan's time in the Sun is about "THE GREATEST LANTERN OF ALL TIME " (as much as I disagree) and don't get me started in what Flash Rebirth did to the Flash mythology.

Of course this is gonna rub folks the wrong way.

[Refrax5]

You never see anyone complain about Jay Garrick or Alan Scott. They've had their bad periods, they've been the face of the franchise once upon a time and at least Jay has been successful in cross media adaptations. Neither are viewed as threats. I wonder why.

Because they're depicted as old mentor types in the modern day. DC never even attempted to have them replace the newer ones. They even took Alan's name away when Kyle was around just so he could be the only GL.

[Refrax5]

Okay.



Thought that was Kyle's thing and one of Hal's traits was that he overused the boxing glove construct?



Okay.



Thought he was always kinda reserved?



I think Simon is another take on the hero who acts before they think, but less of a Han Solo-type than often gets used for such characters. I will concede that I think he's more interesting in a team-up than he is alone.

John used to be a lot more volatile and outspoken. He was an activist and an intellectual. Now he feels like a generic military guy most of the time.

[Refrax5]

Care to give some actual examples? Cause Wally fans have been - myself very much included - tireless in pointing out the wrongs in his treatment, yes. This whole "Wally fans bash Barry", "Wally fans this", "Wally fans that" that Barry fans tirelessly talk about, I don't see so much.

It's hard to give specific examples because this is just based on what I see in comic groups on social media or in real life over years and years. Most Wally fans want Barry dead, even though that ship has long since sailed. People don't even want Wally to have his own costume, feeling that it's somehow a demotion even though Wally said at least once he only wore that uniform to honor Barry's memory. I think it makes more sense for Wally to be his own man, rather than still wearing his uncle's clothes all these years later.

[BohemiaDrinker]

It's hard to give specific examples

Why is it hard? On this thread alone I counted five examples of you accusing the hypothetical "Most Wally fans" of behaving a certain way. I counted zero examples of Wally fans acting said way, and I know who the Wally fans on this thread are.

[Stanlos]

You never see anyone complain about Jay Garrick or Alan Scott. They've had their bad periods, they've been the face of the franchise once upon a time and at least Jay has been successful in cross media adaptations. Neither are viewed as threats. I wonder why.

I love Jay and Allan. One of the things I liked most about Vado's League was hiw it used Jay and other geroes. Very All Star Squadron in feel

[Hypestyle]

So G'nort isn't an option? Come on...