Mad Love- Joker and Harley relationship appreciation

[KurtW95]

In this thread, we honor and appreciate the chaotic and dysfunctional relationship of the Joker and Harley Quinn that's the basis of her character and should still be represented across media and comics.

jokerandharley.jpg

[LukeCagefan]

Wait a minute...I thought Harley's most iconic relationship with with Ivy??? Lol. Teasing!!

[K7P5V]

Without a doubt, Mad Love is an all-time classic (IMHO):

[JBatmanFan05]

I mostly hate their relationship, but I do love the very limited narrow totally-one-sided twisted original version of it we see in BTAS and especially, in the Eisner-winning comic The Batman Adventures: Mad Love by Dini & Timm, which is pictured above.

I mostly don't like Harley Quinn even, but that Dini & Timm 1993 comic ranks as one of the best Batman stories ever told (one of the best comics period), and that's due in large part to Harley.

Frank Miller said it was "best Batman story of the decade." I don't know if I exactly agree (but maybe I do, who knows), but I certainly see where he is coming from (especially since Miller was a big Eisner fan and Mad Love feels old school Eisneresque).

[godisawesome]

I can't appreciate the relationship - I don't think anyone should "ship" Joker and Harley beyond either Elseworlds that change the entire relationship or treat it as a "creative muse" for their own work - but i can appreciate the story.

IT's an excellent example of using a toxic, abusive relationship to really drive home how petulantly evil and monstrous Joker is.

[Matt Rat]

Can I just say as a White Knight fan that Harley being Joker and Bruce's endgame makes so much ridiculously lovely sense?

[KurtW95]

It is what makes her such a compelling character. She is only who she is because of the Joker.. Taking her away from him and keeping the motif makes no sense. She's a tragic character with tragic flaws. Joker could abuse her and she'd always go back to him. That's her tragic flaw and her twisted love is what created her new identity. Take that away and she's just Harleen Quinzel. But she's better off as villain. Which you can absolutely appreciate and support in fiction, which I do. He's a villain too and it's bizarre that people seem so intent on projecting themselves onto her and turning her into a hollow eyeroll. Making her into a hero and moving beyond him has been a disaster and devalued her character significantly. So, what I'm saying is that I miss classic Harley and this is a place to be if you like her with the Joker.

[lilyrose]

It is what makes her such a compelling character. She is only who she is because of the Joker.. Taking her away from him and keeping the motif makes no sense. She's a tragic character with tragic flaws. Joker could abuse her and she'd always go back to him. That's her tragic flaw and her twisted love is what created her new identity. Take that away and she's just Harleen Quinzel. But she's better off as villain. Which you can absolutely appreciate and support in fiction, which I do. He's a villain too and it's bizarre that people seem so intent on projecting themselves onto her and turning her into a hollow eyeroll. Making her into a hero and moving beyond him has been a disaster and devalued her character significantly. So, what I'm saying is that I miss classic Harley and this is a place to be if you like her with the Joker.

Totally agree with every word. They never should have tried to make her into some kind of hero.

[signalman112]

Joker and Harley should do Gotham City a favor and kill each other off.


JokerHarley.jpg

[Top Hat]

To say I hate their relationship with a passion would be understatement. I don’t normally go around doing drive bys on appreciation threads but I had to make an exception in this case just because I hate it so much. Sorry.

The fact that’s she’s now with Ivy these days is a blessed relief.

[Top Hat]

It is what makes her such a compelling character. She is only who she is because of the Joker.. Taking her away from him and keeping the motif makes no sense. She's a tragic character with tragic flaws. Joker could abuse her and she'd always go back to him. That's her tragic flaw and her twisted love is what created her new identity. Take that away and she's just Harleen Quinzel. But she's better off as villain. Which you can absolutely appreciate and support in fiction, which I do. He's a villain too and it's bizarre that people seem so intent on projecting themselves onto her and turning her into a hollow eyeroll. Making her into a hero and moving beyond him has been a disaster and devalued her character significantly. So, what I'm saying is that I miss classic Harley and this is a place to be if you like her with the Joker.

This isn’t good. It’s just crap and in real life just has horrible consequences. But then I hate the Joker and why anyone would hero worship such a psychopath is beyond me. By the way if you think that’s all Harley is these days without the Joker then all I can say is

Anyway Punchline is a much better pairing if you want that kind of thing, it helps that she has far more her own agency than they ever allowed Harley, she’s also not portrayed as a constant victim like Harley was she’s very much a maniac in her own right.

[Matt Rat]

This isn’t good. It’s just crap and in real life just has horrible consequences

These people aren't real.

[godisawesome]

These people aren't real.

Indeed.

But fictional stories should still require quality in their production if we’re supposed to enjoy them, or if they’re going to be trashy and strictly a guilty pleasure, admit it to their audience.

There’s nothing wrong with enjoying a well written story featuring Joker and Harley as an item… but a well written story with that is going to be disturbing or at best of very black humor, as it should deconstruct the relationship and remind the audience Joker is a completely unlovable bastard if he can’t beat or brainwash someone into thinking otherwise - and that beating and brainwashing someone is how you can tell they don’t actually love them.

There’s plenty of dramatic and satirical material to be derived from the relationship/abuse - just not any actual romance worth calling romance unless it comes from a complete alternate reality like White Knight.

There’s a reason why deconstructing the relationship is part and parcel of Harley being a protagonist or POV character - because no actual fan of Harley Quinn would endorse the abusive relationship; fans of the relationship in all its horror and cruelty who just ignore what’s happening are really just Joker fans or fans of misinterpreting abuse for cheap drama.

It’s like the entire Reylo relationship in Star Wars - at a certain point, it’s obvious those ‘shippers aren’t fans of Rey or very attentive audience members, and just want to see Kylo Ren pseudo-smut.

[Top Hat]

These people aren't real.

You don’t say. Do you have an actual point to make here?

[Citizen Kane]

...she’s also not portrayed as a constant victim like Harley was...

That's only a product of modern Harley. OG Harley was hardly painted in a "redeeming" light.