Mad Love- Joker and Harley relationship appreciation

[daredevil1]

I think that people, in trying to make Harley out to be some heroic survivor of abuse, miss the point that she's a crazed villain. A monster who has been repurposed. It's fine if you like the repurposing, but I don't think we should interpret her relationship with Joker as some kind of star-crossed lovers situation of even a tragic 'origin' through which she gains personhood. The point has been made either by Dini or more likely Timm that she doesn't really work outside of her relationship with Joker, because she isn't a role model- it's a cautionary tale and tragic because they're both broken, but that's what makes her a compelling villainess. Of course, I also don't think Venom works in any regard without Spider-Man, but his fans aren't nearly as nutty in forgetting who he is as opposed to who he's been repurposed to be.

The best comparison I would make is Mr. Burns and Smithers, where it's absurd Smithers has been made some kind of empowering gay icon. It doesn't matter that he's gay, what matters is that he's just as evil and sick as Burns because he allows him to do horrible things and just kisses his ass due to his infatuation with him. So Burns treating Smithers poorly and never returning his love is what Smithers gets for being an enabling, equally terrible person. These are not characters we should admire or emulate. And before anyone pulls out an opposing quote from Dini, I defy anyone to create a character who becomes world famous and not be flattered and touched that they strike a chord; even if it goes against their original intentions with them.

[Nite-Wing]

I think of people, interring to make Harley out to be some heroic survivor of abuse, miss the point that she's a crazed villain. A monster who has been repurposed. It's fine if you like the repurposing, but I don't think we should interpret her relationship with Joker as some kind of star-crossed lovers situation of even a tragic 'origin' through which she gains personhood. The point has been made either by Dini or more likely Timm that she doesn't really work outside of her relationship with Joker, because she isn't a role model- it's a cautionary tale and tragic because they're both broken, but that's what makes her a compelling villainess. Of course, I also don't think Venom works in any regard without Spider-Man, but his fans aren't nearly as nutty about who he is as opposed to who he's been repurposed to be.

The best comparison I would make is Mr. Burns and Smithers, where it's absurd Smithers has been made some kind of empowering gay icon. It doesn't matter that he's gay, what matters is that he's just as evil and sick as Burns because he allows him to do horrible things and just kisses his ass due to his infatuation with him. So Burns treating Smithers poorly and never returning his love is what Smithers gets for being an enabling, equally terrible person. These are not characters we should admire or emulate. And before anyone pulls out an opposing quote from Dini, I defy anyone to create a character who becomes world famous and not be flattered and touched that they strike a chord; even if ti goes against their original intentions with them.

Alan Moore also whines about his creations being given new life and popularity apart from the message he intended for them.

It's a mark for his strength as a writer
Dini is happy because Harley was conceived as a one of gimmick that he didn't put much thought into

He today will always say he is happy that people responded so positively to his creation but also note they pushed her beyond what he had in mind

[batnbreakfast]

7083442-01.jpg Not just the pics... also a great read btw

[KurtW95]

Great variant cover. I really wish they would let these two get back together as they should be.

The-Joker-The-Man-Who-Stopped-Laughing-1-1-100-Variant.jpg

[lucius121]

.....







please ignore

[Top Hat]

Great variant cover. I really wish they would let these two get back together as they should be.

The-Joker-The-Man-Who-Stopped-Laughing-1-1-100-Variant.jpg

Not going to happen thankfully. As I said before I much prefer Punchline in that role. And I certainly prefer Harley with Ivy.

[KurtW95]

Couldn't find a Harley appreciation thread. So, I thought I'd post in this one.

RIP Arleen Sorkin. The one true Harley Quinn. Her tenure voicing the character marked the best era of the character in all media.

[Alan2099]

She was Harley Quinn and everything since has only been an imitation of her.

[BlackClaw]

First Kevin now Arleen. As someone who grew up with the DCAU this really hurts.

[Frontier]

She was the Harley, both in voice and personality, and was a class act on top of all that. Harley would not be what she is today without her.

RIP Arlene Sorkin.

[Maestro 216]

She defined Harley for a generation like Margot will now. Rip

[marvelprince]

She was the Harley, both in voice and personality, and was a class act on top of all that. Harley would not be what she is today without her.

RIP Arlene Sorkin.

Even all these years later she’s THE voice for Harley I hear in my head.