Mad Love- Joker and Harley relationship appreciation

[Top Hat]

That's only a product of modern Harley. OG Harley was hardly painted in a "redeeming" light.

Yes well there is a lot of issues with original Harley, especially elements of her origin, probably why some of them have been retconned.

[SiegePerilous02]

I wouldn't say I "ship" them in the traditional sense, because the Joker is an evil bastard and their romance is NOT something to aspire towards. But their dynamic, as warped as it is, is one of the more interesting ones in the bat mythos. It was just more interesting in the DCAU continuity, especially when written by Dini. It was abusive and the Joker was still evil, but he still had some genuine affection for her (as much as he's capable of, and with her it's more like she's his favorite "toy") and she has a little more power in their dynamic that you'd think. How many times does she lash back at him, eliciting genuine fear from the Joker, and gets away with it? More than anyone else not named Batman. The "love triangle" with Ivy was also interesting, as it was toxic on all sides.

Sejics "Harleen" was the only good stab at putting a new spin on it, and unfortunately it was a one off. Beyond that, I don't think the Joker is written very well in modern comics and us way too overexposed with or without her. Harley as a solo act, inexplicably paling around with the JL on occasion, isn't that great either

[Matt Rat]

You don’t say. Do you have an actual point to make here?

Stop applying consequential reality to the lives and conduct of fictional characters. Comics are escapism and exaggeration, meant to do what you cannot.

[thwhtGuardian]

Stop applying consequential reality to the lives and conduct of fictional characters. Comics are escapism and exaggeration, meant to do what you cannot.

They still require a basic grounding reality to be meaningful though, and a toxic relationship is still a toxic relatioship even if it exists in a world where no one bats an eye when a guy in bright blue spandex flys by.

I think you just have to accept that culture is different now, and what was seen as only a slightly problematic relationship in the mid-90's is now seen as horrible.

[exile001]

Making her into a hero and moving beyond him has been a disaster and devalued her character significantly.

This is just provably incorrect in almost every conceivable way.

She wasn't even with Joker in B:TAS for more than a few episodes before breaking off and evolving into a much more interesting and rounded character. In the DCU proper they had maybe a few issues together before Harley went solo.

Their "relationship" is largely a series of flashbacks. Lol.

[Top Hat]

They still require a basic grounding reality to be meaningful though, and a toxic relationship is still a toxic relatioship even if it exists in a world where no one bats an eye when a guy in bright blue spandex flys by.

I think you just have to accept that culture is different now, and what was seen as only a slightly problematic relationship in the mid-90's is now seen as horrible.

Spot on. The OP is about 50 years out of date in their attitude in my view as to what comics should be. It’s almost like creators like the late great Neal Adams didn’t exist for them.

[Starter Set]

It's an appreciation thread now isn't it?

[exile001]

It's an appreciation thread now isn't it?

It offered the idea of an appreciation threat that was pretty solidly rejected for being gross. Lol.

[Mistah K88]

That's only a product of modern Harley. OG Harley was hardly painted in a "redeeming" light.

Yeah, people tend to forget that Harley's main goal when it came to interviewing the Joker was to cash in on a mentally ill patient, she just got outplayed by one. It's an entirely selfish goal that one can't even spin to justify like someone like Ivy. I know that Harley cheating through college is something that was retconned, though it did explain how someone of that caliber would fall for the oldest "my parents beat me" trick in the book.

[Nite-Wing]

Joker and Harley have a good dynamic but we shouldn't have to pretend that they have or even represent what a good relationship is either
I like the middle ground
Its compelling to see the silly antics and jokes but the minute Joker gets inconvenienced or annoyed Harley is immediately slugged or backhanded
Harley has a very limited worldview when she's with him and that is fun to see her simply just want to please Joker vs everything else going on in her life currently

[K7P5V]

Yeah, people tend to forget that Harley's main goal when it came to interviewing the Joker was to cash in on a mentally ill patient, she just got outplayed by one. It's an entirely selfish goal that one can't even spin to justify like someone like Ivy. I know that Harley cheating through college is something that was retconned, though it did explain how someone of that caliber would fall for the oldest "my parents beat me" trick in the book.

Good memory. As far as I'm concerned, Mad Love nailed it (XD)

[JBatmanFan05]

Harley's dream life lol
image (10).jpg

[signalman112]

Nice poster art for the Laughing Fish.

JokerFish.jpg

[Alan2099]

I think one of the reasons Harley and Joker worked better in cartoon form than in comic is that comic Joker is a a far worse person than cartoon Joker.

Cartoon Joker may be a criminal, but he's very much centered on having fun and hogging the spotlight. Comic Joker seems far more entertained by gruesome murder.

Harley falling for somebody that tries to copyright Joker fish or kidnaps officials and makes them star in his own Christmas special on TV is a lot more understandable than Harley falling for a guy that finds putting orphans in stump grinders to be the height of comedy.

I'm also not too fond of how people want to give her a pass by saying she was in an abusive relationship, when she was the one that sought it out and has been perfectly happy to abuse everyone else. It downplays how rotten of a person Harley can be as well.

[K7P5V]

Nice poster art for the Laughing Fish.

JokerFish.jpg

Indeed. Classic episode, as well.