Grant Morrison On Multiverse Characters Becoming Canon Cannon Fodder

[scary harpy]

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/gran...cannon-fodder/

In my view, the general rule of thumb is that each of these alternate worlds should be treated as its own potential franchise rather than squandered as disposable cannon fodder for the nineteenth nervous re-run of Crisis on Infinite Earths – the 'Major Comics' universe Earth-8 for instance should reflect the actual Marvel universe, which is to say don't do anything to American Crusader or The Bug that would be squashed by editorial if you submitted your plot to the editors of Captain America or Spider-Man. You can do 'The Death of American Crusader' but only if you have an Ed Brubaker-style story designed to explore what that means and devised to bring him back in style when the time comes!

[Hypo]

Yea, this has been posted in a few different threads since that issue of their newsletter dropped a few days ago, link plus some additional context:

https://grantmorrison.substack.com/p...ce=twitter&s=r

To the Earth-11 Justice Guild roster, I added Marsha Manhunter, figuring J’onn J’onnz, the Martian Manhunter, being a shapeshifter, could become Joan Jones as easily as John Jones, and Sister Terrific, based on Lizzo. In similar vein, our ‘reversed’ Stargirl was Starboy, inspired by The Weeknd’s ‘motherfucking starboy’ from his video!

I was a little disappointed when the Batwoman of this world was transformed into the evil Batwoman Who Laughs, although I totally understood why writer Joshua Williamson (whose work I enjoy) chose to take this route and why the notion of a ‘Batwoman Who Laughs’ based on Scott Snyder’s infamously and hilariously nihilistic creation the Batman Who Laughs might seem too good to pass up!

Nevertheless, I’m quite protective of my Multiversity work and I get about as riled as I can get about these things nowadays when other creators choose to artificially raise the stakes in their stories by destroying characters and concepts before they even get a chance to be explored. How can I ever forgive my former Batman editor and pal Peter Tomasi for killing Red Racer, the gay Flash of Earth-36 thereby destroying his relationship with Flashlight, that world’s version of Green Lantern, and killing a newly-created queer character for no defensible reason? Red Racer’s place on the multiversal Justice Incarnate has now been claimed by the ‘non-binary’ Kid Quick.

In my view, the general rule of thumb is that each of these alternate worlds should be treated as its own potential franchise rather than squandered as disposable cannon fodder for the nineteenth nervous re-run of Crisis on Infinite Earths – the ‘Major Comics’ universe Earth-8 for instance should reflect the actual Marvel universe, which is to say don’t do anything to American Crusader or The Bug that would be squashed by editorial if you submitted your plot to the editors of Captain America or Spider-Man. You can do ‘The Death of American Crusader’ but only if you have an Ed Brubaker-style story designed to explore what that means and devised to bring him back in style when the time comes!

In the case of the Earth-11 Kathy Kane at least, I’d like to think there’s hope for putting her back where she belongs in the Earth-11 Batwoman role. The Batwoman Who Laughs should technically come from the Dark Multiverse, of course, not from the Orrery of Worlds, so maybe there was a mix-up and Earth-11 Batwoman is even now fighting her way back home from the Dark Multiverse… or something.

[scary harpy]

Yea, this has been posted in a few different threads since that issue of their newsletter dropped a few days ago, link plus some additional context:

https://grantmorrison.substack.com/p...ce=twitter&s=r

oops.

This is the first time I saw any of this.

Thanks.

[Lightning Rider]

Yeah I agree. It might not matter to most readers but it's a waste of potential.

[superduperman]

The New 52 multiverse was a bad idea from the get go. Most of them were half formed ideas that were either lifted from popular Elseworlds or just random concepts that weren't fleshed out very well. "It's the Metal Men only they're the Justice League! Get it?" I don't know why they deliberately limited themselves that way. Yes, you can take ideas like Kingdom Come and turn them into official universes but if you're not really going to do anything with them, why bother? Yes, a world where the genders are reversed is interesting but what plans do you have for it other than having it be a one off gag? Turns out "earth one" in the new multiverse is supposed to be the Earth of the Earth One books except, OOPS!, the WW books kind of destroyed the concept that they all coexist on the same Earth anyway. This is what I mean by half formed ideas. Just let it evolve organically.

[Pinsir]

This feels oddly prescient considering what happens in Strange 2.

[ERON]

Kind of like how they followed up the return on the Multiverse in 52 with the Countdown Arena miniseries. You have all these new characters from newly-created worlds, and the best idea you can come up with for them is to have them fight to the death in a Mortal Kombat tournament?

[SixSpeedSamurai]

As someone who hates the multiverse, I don't care about 99% of these characters. Outside of Miles and Gwen, are there any hugely popular multiversal characters these days? I know a lot of people know of the Crime Syndicate, but they don't sell things.

[thefinalguy]

As someone who hates the multiverse, I don't care about 99% of these characters. Outside of Miles and Gwen, are there any hugely popular multiversal characters these days? I know a lot of people know of the Crime Syndicate, but they don't sell things.

If Miles and Gwen weren't given any material then no one would care.

I don't think every alternative Earth is going to get a big story, but killing them doesn't anything either. If it's the established threat status, it eats itself because who are these characters for us to care about their deaths or a threat that isn't killing the people we know?

And, even if their own stories aren't guaranteed, the door is open for them to tell them. I don't see the issue with different Earths getting runs, it allows for creativity outside of just Crisis level events. It could help tell a story or establish a niche the main earth simply can't encompass.

Plus in DC's case its less about characters coming from different Earths and moreso adaptions. The DCAU, the Arrowverse (for some), DCEU (again for some) etc. may have interpretations of characters people enjoy, and its not comics canon but it does exist somewhere out there. I think PowerGirl is the only character from another Earth that was a major DC staple at some point and she's been MIA for awhile now.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

If Miles and Gwen weren't given any material then no one would care.

I don't think every alternative Earth is going to get a big story, but killing them doesn't anything either. If it's the established threat status, it eats itself because who are these characters for us to care about their deaths or a threat that isn't killing the people we know?

And, even if their own stories aren't guaranteed, the door is open for them to tell them. I don't see the issue with different Earths getting runs, it allows for creativity outside of just Crisis level events. It could help tell a story or establish a niche the main earth simply can't encompass.

Plus in DC's case its less about characters coming from different Earths and moreso adaptions. The DCAU, the Arrowverse (for some), DCEU (again for some) etc. may have interpretations of characters people enjoy, and its not comics canon but it does exist somewhere out there. I think PowerGirl is the only character from another Earth that was a major DC staple at some point and she's been MIA for awhile now.

Miles and Gwen generated enough interest in their early appearances to warrant more exposure. DC plays is pretty safe with their releases though these days, don't seem to be willing to take risks with releasing a lot of lesser know characters. I'm very surprised they are leaning heavy on the Future State characters for Dark Crisis, aside from Jon and Tim Fox, none of them have really caught on (and I really like Yara as a character).

[Batgrayson]

I love the multiverse. I hate that is treated as cannon fodder almost all the times. Multiversity and Justice Incarnate were awesome since there was not element from Earth-0 on them, making the multiverse feel more alive.

[skyvolt2000]

Miles and Gwen generated enough interest in their early appearances to warrant more exposure. DC plays is pretty safe with their releases though these days, don't seem to be willing to take risks with releasing a lot of lesser know characters. I'm very surprised they are leaning heavy on the Future State characters for Dark Crisis, aside from Jon and Tim Fox, none of them have really caught on (and I really like Yara as a character).

Miles and Gwen had material and in both cases were not active in other universes or books until years later.

The DCAU and others had material and development beyond cameos like Crime Syndicate.

Jon and Tim are getting material like with many the hatred of their existence and thought of sniffing what Miles got (a movie and video) fuels the pushback to them. Along with some questionable writing depending on who you talk to.

[JackDaw]

Come on, it’s a load of tosh.

Given the number of times characters die and come back in main verse, if you do kill a multiverse character in one story, then consider he/she has enormous potential you bring them back.

And…really…practically all these characters are inter-change-able UNTIL you have filled in a lot of their background by using them in a long story run. You haven’t lost much by “killing” a character that’s only featured in a few dozen panels (if that!).

[Kirk Brent]

It's amazing to see how times have changed since the early 80s. WB felt that the idea of a Multiverse was "too confusing" and ordered its destruction. Here we are a little over thirty years later and it's now a tried and true money-maker...except for the medium that perfected it, DC Comics.

Typical WB/DC procedure seems to be to half-ass something to see if it works and then ignore it even if it does. To quote Ron Swanson, "Don't half-ass two things, whole-ass one thing."

As a kid reading my brother's comics and those on the 7-11 and K&B spinner racks, I was mesmerized by alternate versions of DC characters. What's cooler than Superman? Different versions of Superman from other Earths. The same applied to the other DC characters and mythology.

The Multiverse has been the best solution to fixing the post-2000 DC Comics problem of aimlessness. Instead of the bizarre, limited Multiverse of Infinite Crisis, the original Multiverse should have been restored. Once in place, using each Earth as "franchises" like Morrison put it is easy.

1-Pick a small number of Earths/universes to focus on at first.

2-Determine which series will be set on each Earth.

3-Label books with their Multiversal designation (Earth-One, Earth-Five, etc.)

4-Launch and let the reader decide what they want to read.

It's that easy. This was suggested to Dan DiDio at a con once and his answer was, essentially, "that won't work because it will dilute the brand." This was in the post-Miles Morales and Exiles world, mind you.

Here's a lineup to show instead of tell:

Earth-0: "Ultimate DC," starting from the very beginning with no sidekicks and no Societies or Leagues, essentially what the New 52 or Earth One should have been. Titles include books for main characters like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc., and books starring brand-new characters. These could be mini-series to gauge interest.

Earth-One: a combined version of the pre and post-Crisis DCU. Action and Detective are the Superman and Batman books here. The Flash Showcase is a Flash family book. Superman and Batman Family put the spotlight on Supergirl, Superboy (pre-teen Jon Kent), Robin, Batgirl, Nightwing, etc. Wally West: Flash is the main Flash title, GL Corps is the main GL book focusing on the Earth GLs in space, and JLA is the central team-up book.

Earth-Two: cosmic shenanigans have separated the surviving Earths from COIE. Earth-Two is home to JSA, the main book that focuses on Golden Age and modern age JSA adventures. The Golden Age focuses on WW II-era stories of the JSA, Superman, Batman, and other heroes.

Earth-Three: home to The Syndicate, a book starring the Crime Syndicate of America, and The Adventures of Alexander Luthor, the greatest hero in the Earth-Three universe.

Earth-Four: Charlton characters are the focus here: Blue & Gold stars Ted Kord and Booster Gold, who can travel as easily from universe to universe as he can time period to time period. Peacemaker is the straight man of this universe while The Question is the serious and dark corner of Earth-Four.

Earth-Five: DC decides to finally fix the "Captain Marvel/Shazam" problem by going with Cap's original name: Captain Thunder! Earth-Five books include Captain Thunder's title at first and then a Thunder Family book in time.

Earth-Six: Vertigo lives again on this dark world: Hellblazer, Swamp Thing, The Phantom Stranger and other horror-inspired characters exist here in their darkest forms.

Earth-Seven: a sci-fi universe with books for Adam Strange, Hawkworld, Challengers of The Unknown, and other DC sci-fi concepts but stripped of superhero influence.

Additional Earths could be home to one-shots, miniseries, digital series, and/or OGNs. Let sales dictate what continues to get published.

It's so easy it writes itself.

[Kirk Brent]

sorry for the double post