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  1. #181
    Incredible Member Jack The Tripper's Avatar
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    No way home numbers was an exaggeration on my part, but I do think that higher ups probably expect this movie to do quite a bit over a billion, or at least hoped the hype would help it get that far. I think they thought of the use of Patrick Stewart as Xavier and showing him in the marketing would be enough to reach different generations, just like NWH did - not to mention the fact that there’s a multiverse angle and Wanda having a CONSIDERABLE surge in popularity since Wandavision

    Pairing a substantially lower box office (we all understand why, but again, I’m unsure Chapek and others do) and a fairly mixed reception for the studio, I just wouldn’t be surprised if Feige faced pressure from his bosses about certain aspects of the franchise going forward.

    And yes, Feige and co do decide on their next movies obviously, but seeing as he doesn’t seem to have final say over aspects like marketing nowadays, it is not impossible that he could be strong armed by the current head of Disney. Bob Iger seemed very personable and supportive with the creatives, especially with Feige, however his replacement Bob Chapek seems to run things far less risk based and far more profit based. He was infamous for being “cheap” when running Disney parks

    I’m obviously not saying it’s a definite, but I just wouldn’t be surprised if some people saw it as a comparative failure to other aspects of the franchise, and try to encourage movement away from anything like that again. Again, I’m not saying it’s definite, and I really hope it isn’t as I’d love Raimi to have another go at it, but you can never guess the way any company’s gonna go when something isn’t as successful as they’d like. Sony did the same thing to Raimi after Spider-Man 3… it does happen

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    No way home numbers was an exaggeration on my part, but I do think that higher ups probably expect this movie to do quite a bit over a billion, or at least hoped the hype would help it get that far. I think they thought of the use of Patrick Stewart as Xavier and showing him in the marketing would be enough to reach different generations, just like NWH did - not to mention the fact that there’s a multiverse angle and Wanda having a CONSIDERABLE surge in popularity since Wandavision

    Pairing a substantially lower box office (we all understand why, but again, I’m unsure Chapek and others do) and a fairly mixed reception for the studio, I just wouldn’t be surprised if Feige faced pressure from his bosses about certain aspects of the franchise going forward.

    And yes, Feige and co do decide on their next movies obviously, but seeing as he doesn’t seem to have final say over aspects like marketing nowadays, it is not impossible that he could be strong armed by the current head of Disney. Bob Iger seemed very personable and supportive with the creatives, especially with Feige, however his replacement Bob Chapek seems to run things far less risk based and far more profit based. He was infamous for being “cheap” when running Disney parks

    I’m obviously not saying it’s a definite, but I just wouldn’t be surprised if some people saw it as a comparative failure to other aspects of the franchise, and try to encourage movement away from anything like that again. Again, I’m not saying it’s definite, and I really hope it isn’t as I’d love Raimi to have another go at it, but you can never guess the way any company’s gonna go when something isn’t as successful as they’d like. Sony did the same thing to Raimi after Spider-Man 3… it does happen

    I mean maybe. But this thing is going to pass many super hero movies considered hits in domestic box office. Granted some are older but when your talking about it surpassing Ragnarok, and Homecoming, and Aquaman, and heck maybe even Guardians of the Galaxy 2 that is nothing to sneeze at.

  3. #183
    Incredible Member Jack The Tripper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inisideguy View Post
    I mean maybe. But this thing is going to pass many super hero movies considered hits in domestic box office. Granted some are older but when your talking about it surpassing Ragnarok, and Homecoming, and Aquaman, and heck maybe even Guardians of the Galaxy 2 that is nothing to sneeze at.
    I absolutely agree, I just hope Disney see it the same way!

  4. #184
    Incredible Member chicago_bastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    No way home numbers was an exaggeration on my part, but I do think that higher ups probably expect this movie to do quite a bit over a billion, or at least hoped the hype would help it get that far. I think they thought of the use of Patrick Stewart as Xavier and showing him in the marketing would be enough to reach different generations, just like NWH did - not to mention the fact that there’s a multiverse angle and Wanda having a CONSIDERABLE surge in popularity since Wandavision

    Pairing a substantially lower box office (we all understand why, but again, I’m unsure Chapek and others do) and a fairly mixed reception for the studio, I just wouldn’t be surprised if Feige faced pressure from his bosses about certain aspects of the franchise going forward.

    And yes, Feige and co do decide on their next movies obviously, but seeing as he doesn’t seem to have final say over aspects like marketing nowadays, it is not impossible that he could be strong armed by the current head of Disney. Bob Iger seemed very personable and supportive with the creatives, especially with Feige, however his replacement Bob Chapek seems to run things far less risk based and far more profit based. He was infamous for being “cheap” when running Disney parks

    I’m obviously not saying it’s a definite, but I just wouldn’t be surprised if some people saw it as a comparative failure to other aspects of the franchise, and try to encourage movement away from anything like that again. Again, I’m not saying it’s definite, and I really hope it isn’t as I’d love Raimi to have another go at it, but you can never guess the way any company’s gonna go when something isn’t as successful as they’d like. Sony did the same thing to Raimi after Spider-Man 3… it does happen
    I share your sentiment that Marvel Studios could change the strategy but if that happened it wouldn't be because of the box office. Shang-Chi got a sequel greenlit despite its box office not being great. The decision to make a sequel had clearly more to do with the great audience response the first one got. Feige is making a third Ant-Man movie despite the fact that the first two installments are among the lowest grossing MCU movies. So I think we can put the worries about the box office to rest.

    What could lead Feige to rethinking the strategy though is the comparably reserved audience response for MoM. The MCU was coming from phase three that had an almost perfect track record in terms of audience response. Now we had only five movies in phase four so far and yet two of them have already managed to divide audiences, so I can see Feige having some thoughts about that.

    I'm not saying MoM has a negative reponse but compared to the rest of the MCU it is clearly on the lower end. It has a B+ on CinemaScore and is therefore one of only three MCU movies that have a score worse than A-. The audience score on RT is also considerably lower than the ones of last year's MCU slate with the exception of Eternals.

    When looking at the reception of the phase four movies one can see a pattern. Two are universally praised: Shang-Chi, which happens to be the most generic and play-it-safe standard MCU flick among them, and No Way Home, which panders heavily to nostalgia and delivers plenty of fanservice. So the two movies that worked great in terms of audience response are those that played it as safe as possible. The ones that took risks and were driven by the individual style of their directors have gotten a rather mixed reponse.

    So if Feige wants to please the audience he'll have to stop hiring directors with a unique style like Raimi or Zhao and make more standard MCU fare instead, because that seems to be what the majority of the audience wants.
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

  5. #185
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Wow, Dr. Strange 2 is doing better than Winter Soldier did in its theatrical run.
    For me it is a forgone conclusion that marvel is unstoppable at the box office. I feel what is going on here is people are talking more about the quality of the film and wondering maybe if that is affecting the box office, which some may see as a big drop 67-69% in the second week but still, huge numbers.

    dr strange 2 will or at least by next week surpass The Batman numbers, However I feel maybe there is more educational understanding of films that people may now be bringing to MCU movies, the word of mouth of this movie is mixed at best and will likely get more backlash in the coming months. this movie ( had it not been MCU) should have been in the 40-50% rotten tomato range, now that would have affected its final box office numbers even if they were huge in the first weekend.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    I share your sentiment that Marvel Studios could change the strategy but if that happened it wouldn't be because of the box office. Shang-Chi got a sequel greenlit despite its box office not being great. The decision to make a sequel had clearly more to do with the great audience response the first one got. Feige is making a third Ant-Man movie despite the fact that the first two installments are among the lowest grossing MCU movies. So I think we can put the worries about the box office to rest.

    What could lead Feige to rethinking the strategy though is the comparably reserved audience response for MoM. The MCU was coming from phase three that had an almost perfect track record in terms of audience response. Now we had only five movies in phase four so far and yet two of them have already managed to divide audiences, so I can see Feige having some thoughts about that.

    I'm not saying MoM has a negative reponse but compared to the rest of the MCU it is clearly on the lower end. It has a B+ on CinemaScore and is therefore one of only three MCU movies that have a score worse than A-. The audience score on RT is also considerably lower than the ones of last year's MCU slate with the exception of Eternals.

    When looking at the reception of the phase four movies one can see a pattern. Two are universally praised: Shang-Chi, which happens to be the most generic and play-it-safe standard MCU flick among them, and No Way Home, which panders heavily to nostalgia and delivers plenty of fanservice. So the two movies that worked great in terms of audience response are those that played it as safe as possible. The ones that took risks and were driven by the individual style of their directors have gotten a rather mixed reponse.

    So if Feige wants to please the audience he'll have to stop hiring directors with a unique style like Raimi or Zhao and make more standard MCU fare instead, because that seems to be what the majority of the audience wants.
    The last paragraph is a critical point.

    Marvel is trying to do “different” by hiring some directors to do different stuff with their properties.

    The thing is audiences already have in mind what they want to see in a Marvel movie. Deviation from the standard formula so far is getting mixed responses from audiences. Shang-Chi was to some extent the standard Marvel movie (humor sprinkled over the movie, big action sequences, large CGI battle at the end). MoM was the first “Marvel horror type superhero movie” and despite what people are clamoring for the internet, it’s quite clearly not what audiences expected or even wanted.

    MoM is a pretty gnarly movie that was in some ways quite different than the first movie. As soon as I came out for MoM (and I posted my thoughts here) I had questions how well it would play with the general audience. Even as a hardcore superhero movie fan, MoM wasn’t what I expected.

    I’m sure Feige and co would look at all this and decide how they want to approach their next movies. MoM is a hit but it would have made a ton more money if “it played it safe”.
    Last edited by Username taken; 05-18-2022 at 06:36 AM.

  7. #187
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    I'm not saying MoM has a negative reponse but compared to the rest of the MCU it is clearly on the lower end. It has a B+ on CinemaScore and is therefore one of only three MCU movies that have a score worse than A-. The audience score on RT is also considerably lower than the ones of last year's MCU slate with the exception of Eternals.

    When looking at the reception of the phase four movies one can see a pattern. Two are universally praised: Shang-Chi, which happens to be the most generic and play-it-safe standard MCU flick among them, and No Way Home, which panders heavily to nostalgia and delivers plenty of fanservice. So the two movies that worked great in terms of audience response are those that played it as safe as possible. The ones that took risks and were driven by the individual style of their directors have gotten a rather mixed reponse.

    So if Feige wants to please the audience he'll have to stop hiring directors with a unique style like Raimi or Zhao and make more standard MCU fare instead, because that seems to be what the majority of the audience wants.
    True, as a film MoM is better than Shang-Chi and No Way Home, but they're also way more on-formula and safe, so no-one's going to just bounce off them entirely. I'd hate it if - at how ever many films they're at now - Marvel Studios get cold feet about diversifying in style just because it's not possible to please everybody at the same time anymore. Because if you make something that everyone is kind of happy with but doesn't necessarily love, you are McDonalds.

  8. #188
    For honor... Madam-Shogun-Assassin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    True, as a film MoM is better than Shang-Chi and No Way Home, but they're also way more on-formula and safe, so no-one's going to just bounce off them entirely. I'd hate it if - at how ever many films they're at now - Marvel Studios get cold feet about diversifying in style just because it's not possible to please everybody at the same time anymore. Because if you make something that everyone is kind of happy with but doesn't necessarily love, you are McDonalds.
    I had a lot of issues with MoM, but I enjoyed it fairly more than Shang Shi which was so bland with only one good fight scene (death dealer vs Shi and that was short). I loved No Way Home unconditionally tho.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    For me it is a forgone conclusion that marvel is unstoppable at the box office. I feel what is going on here is people are talking more about the quality of the film and wondering maybe if that is affecting the box office, which some may see as a big drop 67-69% in the second week but still, huge numbers.

    dr strange 2 will or at least by next week surpass The Batman numbers, However I feel maybe there is more educational understanding of films that people may now be bringing to MCU movies, the word of mouth of this movie is mixed at best and will likely get more backlash in the coming months. this movie ( had it not been MCU) should have been in the 40-50% rotten tomato range, now that would have affected its final box office numbers even if they were huge in the first weekend.
    You're talking about the shared universe effect of the MCU, where each movie relates to every other movie even if they don't have anything else in common other than being in the MCU. People will see a movie because of the reputation of the MCU, and Disney is counting on that effect to provide a big part of the sales.

    Still, I don't think that Disney mails it in. Dr. Strange is a legitimately high quality movie that stands right next to the best directing, acting, effects and production values out there. No secret hidden moustaches here!
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  10. #190
    Formerly Blackdragon6 Emperor-of-Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madam-Shogun-Assassin View Post
    I had a lot of issues with MoM, but I enjoyed it fairly more than Shang Shi which was so bland with only one good fight scene (death dealer vs Shi and that was short). I loved No Way Home unconditionally tho.
    Totally agree with everything said here. MoM was just a case of having too much potential. And when it never reaches it people got disappointed, or alternatively they felt the tone was too disjointed. For me it was all the above.
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  11. #191
    Incredible Member Maestro 216's Avatar
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    Back on the movie what did you all think about American Chavez? I felt like she was different from her comic book self, but in a good way.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro 216 View Post
    Back on the movie what did you all think about American Chavez? I felt like she was different from her comic book self, but in a good way.
    I can't stand America in the comics. Here I did. I liked her quite a bit. Whether that was due to how the character was adapted, the actress, or possibly both, I can't say. But I did like her alot here and am looking forward to where she pops up next.

  13. #193
    Formerly Blackdragon6 Emperor-of-Dragons's Avatar
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    Personally, I thought she was a mcguffin with no character development. I'm not familiar with her comic counterpart but I knew of her.
    Rest in Peace mom we still love you and miss you.
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