Is it time for a new handbook

[Ultimate Captain America]

We had a handbook just a year ago.

[GodThor]

^ I think they are talking about the handbook of the entire Marvel universe.

[MichaelC]

Wikipedia has rendered handbooks obsolete.

[Cronus]

They need to update the power scales....like, really bad. The 1 to 7 thing is just horrific.

[Phoenixx9]

They need to update the power scales....like, really bad. The 1 to 7 thing is just horrific.

Yes, this is something I also feel was bad and needs an overhaul.

But yes, would love to get some new Handbooks with a little less history and a little more detail in abilities and powers with a much-improved power scale.

[JudicatorPrime]

They need to update the power scales....like, really bad. The 1 to 7 thing is just horrific.

True, but again, all the more reason for this not to be published in guides. They would be rendered obsolete, if not irrelevant, before the ink dried. Power creep and feats that are inconsistent with established power levels happen all of the time.

And don't even get me started on phenomenon that happens which contradicts the laws of science within the fictional universe. I mean, if a character can withstand a several megaton thermonuclear device exploding in their face without incurring any damage at all, how is it even remotely possible that a normal human -- even the most highly trained, Olympic level normal human -- can punch that character without shattering every bone in their body? Even a person who could lift in the 5-10 ton range would still not be able to generate the kinetic force, heat, etc., of a multi-megaton thermonuclear detonation. The Hulk wouldn't have to swing against most opponents. They'd maim themselves just trying to hurt him.

But that's not the story that most Marvel writers care to tell. So, ultimately, whatever gets recorded in the guides would need to be constantly updated.

[Cronus]

Yes, this is something I also feel was bad and needs an overhaul.

But yes, would love to get some new Handbooks with a little less history and a little more detail in abilities and powers with a much-improved power scale.

Exactly. We can read the books if we want the history, heck even some wiki's can cover the basic history.

[Cronus]

True, but again, all the more reason for this not to be published in guides. They would be rendered obsolete, if not irrelevant, before the ink dried. Power creep and feats that are inconsistent with established power levels happen all of the time.

I don't mind that so much, I feel like those inconsistencies can be hashed out on a [reasonable, civil] battle thread.

And don't even get me started on phenomenon that happens which contradicts the laws of science within the fictional universe. I mean, if a character can withstand a several megaton thermonuclear device exploding in their face without incurring any damage at all, how is it even remotely possible that a normal human -- even the most highly trained, Olympic level normal human -- can punch that character without shattering every bone in their body? Even a person who could lift in the 5-10 ton range would still not be able to generate the kinetic force, heat, etc., of a multi-megaton thermonuclear detonation. The Hulk wouldn't have to swing against most opponents. They'd maim themselves just trying to hurt him.

I see what you mean. I'm so used to making a distinction between real world physics and comic book physics, it doesn't bug me. Interestingly, the main brain behind the original handbooks was Mark Gruenwald who was big on making real world physics felt much more in his books. One of his big things as I recall was the notion of using hyperspace to allow to interstellar travel. More specifically, because of Einstein's theory, he couldn't see anyone or anything traveling at light speed, much less faster than light. The original Silver Surfer hand book indicated that the Surfer could reach 99.5% of the speed of light and once this specific speed was reached, he could then utilize hyperspace to travel faster than light.

I ran across a fan who wrote in and mentioned the same thing to Stan Lee back when Stan was writing the original Silver Surfer series. Notice Stan's response.



A little smart-alecky but I suppose I see what he means.

Of course, Surfer's bio has been updated since that time because somehow, someway...someone figured out that Surfer requiring hyperspace to travel time as he has done on numerous occasions, would confuse readers. I think his marvel.com wiki says he can travel faster that light speed and thereafter, choose to enter hyperspace as an option as well.

You mentioned Hulk. There is a perfect character to mention when it comes to real world physics. He delivers blows that are approaching nuclear in magnitude...they should decimate not only the opponent, but likely the city he is in too! For the sake of story, I think some writer's...ignore?...real world physics or otherwise try to come up with inventive ways to make using their powers seem more believable. Flash has the speed force which protects him from the blast of air against his skin at those speeds or setting the atmosphere on fire. I think even some writer's shy away from the uber powerful guys because sensibly writing characters on that level becomes trickier.

I'm ok with it; I'm used to sorting through it if it's brought up on rumbles threads and what not.

But that's not the story that most Marvel writers care to tell. So, ultimately, whatever gets recorded in the guides would need to be constantly updated.

True again. Like, Silver Surfer being in a phased state at all times would likely be something that gets missed in a hand book. Or even, power ups like you mention. Superman is a good example of a character who got powered up significantly post-crisis. Unless everyone had kept up with the books that demonstrated this happening, this would've been missed and people confused. Of course, this is exactly why as you mention, handbooks are constantly being updated.

I suppose a forward thinking writer of a bio for a given character would mention that character's powers change occasionally.

[Phoenixx9]

True, but again, all the more reason for this not to be published in guides. They would be rendered obsolete, if not irrelevant, before the ink dried. Power creep and feats that are inconsistent with established power levels happen all of the time.

And don't even get me started on phenomenon that happens which contradicts the laws of science within the fictional universe. I mean, if a character can withstand a several megaton thermonuclear device exploding in their face without incurring any damage at all, how is it even remotely possible that a normal human -- even the most highly trained, Olympic level normal human -- can punch that character without shattering every bone in their body? Even a person who could lift in the 5-10 ton range would still not be able to generate the kinetic force, heat, etc., of a multi-megaton thermonuclear detonation. The Hulk wouldn't have to swing against most opponents. They'd maim themselves just trying to hurt him.

But that's not the story that most Marvel writers care to tell. So, ultimately, whatever gets recorded in the guides would need to be constantly updated.

I disagree. I mean, someone could say that about comic books or any book really. Once you read it, it is obsolete and used/done.

But these are Handbooks, meant to be used as references. Things should not change that much with the characters that a month later these are outdated. Every 10 years, yes, That is acceptable amount of time, so an updated printing can be done.

[Phoenixx9]

Exactly. We can read the books if we want the history, heck even some wiki's can cover the basic history.

Glad you agree!

Also, the way some later profiles were written, they were so convoluted and long-winded, that even if I knew the story they were telling, it was confusing to read!! Any character with 40+ yrs history does not need in-depth history here. Just a quick synopsis of how they got started and where they are now.

[Riv86672]

Wikipedia has rendered handbooks obsolete.

^^^Not at all. There’s always a market for analog.

On topic,
I love when I run across the old Handbook entries online, and along w. the classic OG art they’ve Added kick ass fan art/redesigns…:

[Gaastra]

Here's a few classic ones also--

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

[Digifiend]

case in point - when I'm looking for accurate details about pretty much any character, I always check https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel_Database before I'll read anything on Marvel's official site. as you say, it seems the fans and readers keep the info more up to date than Marvel themselves do, so... generally speaking, I'd have to agree that the era of the handbook is over, now that the internet exists.

and this is speaking as someone who became a Marvel fan BECAUSE of the handbooks

Has Marvel.com got rid of their wiki? Searching for a character just brings up a list of comics they're in.

Wikipedia has rendered handbooks obsolete.

Not entirely, due to notability criteria. An obscure villain who only appeared once won't have a Wikipedia article!

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

Exactly. We can read the books if we want the history, heck even some wiki's can cover the basic history.

I disagree. The relevant section is called "History", and I want a detailed history to go with it, not some eye-rollingly boring one-paragraph synopsis of their origin story. If that's all you want, stick to reading the Deluxe Edition, 35 years out of date thought it may be. Further, the powers and weapons are sufficienty detailed: what they are, what they've been observed to do, sometimes how they work when it's known. It's not the writers job to write out graduate student thesis papers on how the powers *might* work.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

^^^Not at all. There’s always a market for analog.

On topic,
I love when I run across the old Handbook entries online, and along w. the classic OG art they’ve Added kick ass fan art/redesigns…:

Ugh. I assume by "kickass" you actually mean "hideously amateurish."