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  1. #76
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    When did Marston say he hated Superman?
    Last edited by Agent Z; 05-26-2022 at 12:40 AM.

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    Agreed!




    I very much agree. DC is willing to let writers make Bruce into the smartest men alive at the expense of having characters like Superman, Wonder Woman, and The Flash, look stupid. You really paint a bad picture for these so-called "Gods".





    Marston hated Superman though, Diana was more or less a reaction to that. Now, if you mean the Superman-Wonder Woman bit, know Marston meant entirely in terms of them being educational for children. I know I compare Diana's strength (and speed and intelligence :P) to Superman, but that's to illustrate how the character should be written. I lean towards Martston's Stronger Than Hercules, Swifter Than Mercury, Wise As Athena, and Beautiful As Aphrodite.





    I agree, but I'll say it's also a problem being apart of a big franchise. With all of DC's books they keep pumping out, there's just no time to maintain a good sense of continuity. If DC had a much smaller lineup, I could see it. Another thing, shared universe. Very much a problem. You have all these characters who have their little worlds apart of this bigger "universe" that is a melting pot of ever changing interconnecting ideas trying to make sense of why they co-exist. Well, Diana was created to be the most impressive thing in her own stories. Now she's sharing it with Superman, Captain Marvel, the Flash, Martian Manhunter. Sadly, Diana has a smaller readership than them (excluding MM).
    She doesn't have a smaller readership than Captain Marvel. In fact Superman these days is selling in the same ballpark as WW. She is far more popular than MM and CM. Based on sales, merchandise, TV and movies success. But when the push comes to shove, DC doesn't have as big of a problem, to portray MM and CM as equal to Superman. Why? Because they are men. Even though they say many times WW is on his level. Usually they prefer to throw her under the bus, and let a male character come closer to SM. Double standards is the problem here. Due to obvious sexism.

  3. #78
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    Marston hated Superman though, Diana was more or less a reaction to that. Now, if you mean the Superman-Wonder Woman bit, know Marston meant entirely in terms of them being educational for children. I know I compare Diana's strength (and speed and intelligence :P) to Superman, but that's to illustrate how the character should be written. I lean towards Martston's Stronger Than Hercules, Swifter Than Mercury, Wise As Athena, and Beautiful As Aphrodite.
    Aside from the quote about a woman "having the strength of Superman" where any other quotes about him talking about Superman?

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Aside from the quote about a woman "having the strength of Superman" where any other quotes about him talking about Superman?
    Link below.

    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    She doesn't have a smaller readership than Captain Marvel. In fact Superman these days is selling in the same ballpark as WW. She is far more popular than MM and CM. Based on sales, merchandise, TV and movies success. But when the push comes to shove, DC doesn't have as big of a problem, to portray MM and CM as equal to Superman. Why? Because they are men. Even though they say many times WW is on his level. Usually they prefer to throw her under the bus, and let a male character come closer to SM. Double standards is the problem here. Due to obvious sexism.
    Has MM ever been shown to be on Superman's level? I haven't seen a panel or a single instance of MM being on Supes level. In fact, I know they've always tried to state MM is stronger than Superman. But, its never been shown. Now, Captain Marvel, he's probably on Superman's level. Anyways, you're right. I have no idea why I didn't exclude Billy on this list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    When did Marstom say he hated Superman?
    Go read his stories. There two instances. One in Sensation Comics and the other in Wonder Woman. I don't remember the issue, but one involves Diana and Etta laughing and berating a man who basically has a fantasy of himself as Superman (Sensations). The other is Diana is doing a movie where she's playing Wonder Woman and she flips the guy who was dressed like Superman upside down. I forgot the reason why (Wonder Woman). Also, this: http://www.comicsdetective.com/2019/...e-oct-25-1940/
    If you read his Wonder Woman stories, it does in fact align with his views on Superman. Diana wasn't invulnerable. She could be in mortal danger.

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    Link below.



    Has MM ever been shown to be on Superman's level? I haven't seen a panel or a single instance of MM being on Supes level. In fact, I know they've always tried to state MM is stronger than Superman. But, its never been shown. Now, Captain Marvel, he's probably on Superman's level. Anyways, you're right. I have no idea why I didn't exclude Billy on this list.



    Go read his stories. There two instances. One in Sensation Comics and the other in Wonder Woman. I don't remember the issue, but one involves Diana and Etta laughing and berating a man who basically has a fantasy of himself as Superman (Sensations). The other is Diana is doing a movie where she's playing Wonder Woman and she flips the guy who was dressed like Superman upside down. I forgot the reason why (Wonder Woman). Also, this: http://www.comicsdetective.com/2019/...e-oct-25-1940/
    If you read his Wonder Woman stories, it does in fact align with his views on Superman. Diana wasn't invulnerable. She could be in mortal danger.
    MM has performed similar to SM in certain comics where he shared screentime with him. You don't find it odd that shazam used to be portrayed at times as equal to SM. While WW who was historically stronger than Hercules, faster than Hermes and shares same power source was thrown under the bus?

    Also Marston WW was clearly super durable and tanky. In fact one of his issues in the WW run has a page of Diana being called invulnerable.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    Also Marston WW was clearly super durable and tanky. In fact one of his issues in the WW run has a page of Diana being called invulnerable.
    Diana was nowhere near invulnerable in the Marston era. I don't know what makes you call her tanky and durable.

  7. #82
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    MM has performed similar to SM in certain comics where he shared screentime with him. You don't find it odd that shazam used to be portrayed at times as equal to SM. While WW who was historically stronger than Hercules, faster than Hermes and shares same power source was thrown under the bus?

    Also Marston WW was clearly super durable and tanky. In fact one of his issues in the WW run has a page of Diana being called invulnerable.
    Has Diana ever fought Capt Marvel, Mary Marvel, CM3 or Black Adam?
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

  8. #83
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Has Diana ever fought Capt Marvel, Mary Marvel, CM3 or Black Adam?
    She's fought Mary Marvel many times.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  9. #84
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    She's fought Mary Marvel many times.
    Oh, was Diana stronger than Mary? Sometimes they make it seem like Mary and CM3 are weaker than Cap and at other times they are tied.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

  10. #85
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Oh, was Diana stronger than Mary? Sometimes they make it seem like Mary and CM3 are weaker than Cap and at other times they are tied.
    Depends on who was the villain in the story.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  11. #86
    Mighty Member Largo161's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    Link below.



    Has MM ever been shown to be on Superman's level? I haven't seen a panel or a single instance of MM being on Supes level. In fact, I know they've always tried to state MM is stronger than Superman. But, its never been shown. Now, Captain Marvel, he's probably on Superman's level. Anyways, you're right. I have no idea why I didn't exclude Billy on this list.



    Go read his stories. There two instances. One in Sensation Comics and the other in Wonder Woman. I don't remember the issue, but one involves Diana and Etta laughing and berating a man who basically has a fantasy of himself as Superman (Sensations). The other is Diana is doing a movie where she's playing Wonder Woman and she flips the guy who was dressed like Superman upside down. I forgot the reason why (Wonder Woman). Also, this: http://www.comicsdetective.com/2019/...e-oct-25-1940/
    If you read his Wonder Woman stories, it does in fact align with his views on Superman. Diana wasn't invulnerable. She could be in mortal danger.
    I don’t see any evidence in the link you provided that Marston hated Superman.
    “You see…the rest of them are soldiers. But [Wonder Woman] is an artist.”

    I only support the made of clay origin.

  12. #87
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    She's fought Mary Marvel many times.
    Didn't Mary Marvel kick her ass when she was a zombie, or something like that? Pretty much a one shot?

    Also, didn't she fight Mary Marvel when Grant Morrison was writing some limited series. I think it had to do with Darkseid and the anti-life equation.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    Didn't Mary Marvel kick her ass when she was a zombie, or something like that? Pretty much a one shot?

    Also, didn't she fight Mary Marvel when Grant Morrison was writing some limited series. I think it had to do with Darkseid and the anti-life equation.
    Yeah, and I think they fought when Mary had Black Adam's powers too.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  14. #89
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Diana was nowhere near invulnerable in the Marston era. I don't know what makes you call her tanky and durable.
    The fact that she has super durability.

  15. #90
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Depends on who was the villain in the story.
    I was just wondering if Diana was shown as equal or stronger since they all are supposed to possess some amount of the strength of Hercules, with Diana being "Stronger than Hecules". But I guess not.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

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