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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Did she? I thought she was mostly just using her power advantage over Thanos until Thanos pulled out the Power Stone and punched her into the next scene.
    That was only in that one instance, though. Up until then, she was as skilled as we've seen anyone in the MCU.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The Kryptonians, the Marvel family and MM don't have the same hype as fighters that Diana has, but they aren't unskilled either (I imagine Black Adam should be very skilled as an ancient warrior, and Clark is a brawler who has probably studied some Kryptonian fighting techniques). But they fall into the unimaginative Flying Brick mold pretty easily too in some cases.
    Exactly. When I think top tier fighters in the DCU, no one who can fly really lands on that list. Sure all those guys you just listed can land a punch, but in comics it takes much more than that to be among the best fighters. With WW, I find it to be more lip service than anything else.
    Last edited by phonogram12; 05-12-2022 at 09:46 AM.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    That was only in that one instance, though. Up until then, she was as skilled as we've seen anyone in the MCU.



    Exactly. When I think top tier fighters in the DCU, no one who can fly really lands on that list. Sure all those guys you just listed can land a punch, but in comics it takes much more than that to be among the best fighters. With WW, I find it to be more lip service than anything else.
    I've been reading the character for years since she could fly and find this to be very far from the case.

    And frankly, removing flight is not suddenly going to result in DC portraying her as a skilled fighter if what you believe is true anyway.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 05-12-2022 at 10:41 AM.

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    That was only in that one instance, though. Up until then, she was as skilled as we've seen anyone in the MCU.
    I know I may be splitting hairs here, but the skill level Captain America demonstrated is on a much higher tier than what Carol showed. His short fight with Thanos, IMO, was what happened if you took Cap's skill level and gave him a massive power boost. Thanos tossed Carol like a ragdoll when they were trying to do H2H fighting, but then Carol just came back and used her power advantage over Thanos.

    Just IMO, but I don't think Carol looks like a top-notch H2H fighter. Not unskilled, just not Cap-level or Thanos-level highly skilled. I do agree that flying bricks don't get that portrayal that often, but I think that's an art direction thing and people's not inherently knowing what flight-based H2H combat would look like in real time. My guess is that the cues that people look for in "skill" fights is a lot of balance, boxing and MMA postures, (over-the-top) defensive movements like parrying and dodging, grappling, kicks, and quick-hitting combo strikes. Superman fights are the opposite of skill and often are just one punch and BOOM. And to be fair, maybe you see skill in Carol's attack where I'm missing it. I tend to think that Superman's dodging Steppenwolf's haymaker is an example of skilled move, but it just looks like he's just at a power advantage.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    I know I may be splitting hairs here, but the skill level Captain America demonstrated is on a much higher tier than what Carol showed. His short fight with Thanos, IMO, was what happened if you took Cap's skill level and gave him a massive power boost. Thanos tossed Carol like a ragdoll when they were trying to do H2H fighting, but then Carol just came back and used her power advantage over Thanos.

    Just IMO, but I don't think Carol looks like a top-notch H2H fighter. Not unskilled, just not Cap-level or Thanos-level highly skilled. I do agree that flying bricks don't get that portrayal that often, but I think that's an art direction thing and people's not inherently knowing what flight-based H2H combat would look like in real time. My guess is that the cues that people look for in "skill" fights is a lot of balance, boxing and MMA postures, (over-the-top) defensive movements like parrying and dodging, grappling, kicks, and quick-hitting combo strikes. Superman fights are the opposite of skill and often are just one punch and BOOM. And to be fair, maybe you see skill in Carol's attack where I'm missing it. I tend to think that Superman's dodging Steppenwolf's haymaker is an example of skilled move, but it just looks like he's just at a power advantage.
    The bolded is exactly why I think if you want to show skilled fighters in comics, their power set shouldn't include flight.

    As for Carol, I agree that at the end she did use her power advantage, but in her first encounter with him on his "retirement home" planet as well as when she first faced him in the final end battle she did do her share of the above. That said, I'll leave it at that. My main point was that it's just plain difficult to portray hand-to-hand fighting skills when flight is involved.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    The bolded is exactly why I think if you want to show skilled fighters in comics, their power set shouldn't include flight.

    As for Carol, I agree that at the end she did use her power advantage, but in her first encounter with him on his "retirement home" planet as well as when she first faced him in the final end battle she did do her share of the above. That said, I'll leave it at that. My main point was that it's just plain difficult to portray hand-to-hand fighting skills when flight is involved.
    It is not difficult. Most Comic writers just aren't that good at it since they can't even mantain consistency in general.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Golden Age, Diana’s powers are all over the place, but initially very Superman-like. There’s the gun and bullets harming her, but IIRC she also lassos and moves the sun at one point.

    Silver Age and Bronze Age age, Diana’s superhuman but not pushing planets around like Superman. She tends to plateau, while he’s amped up considerably. At times she’s shown to be powerful and resilient… in Superman vs Wonder Woman Diana holds her own, but IIRC Superman might have been holding back because she was under the influence of the villain… in For The Man Who Has Everything she THRUTCHes Mongul, but ultimately is defeated by him (she’s used as a set up to show Mongul’s power)… in Crisis on Infinite Earths she’s part of the collection of powerful heroes sent to attack the Anti-Monitor… I haven’t recently reread or found any stories during these eras where Diana’s power is compared/contrasted to Supergirl, Power Girl, Captain Marvel, Mary Marvel, Martian Manhunter, etc. although some of these characters co-starred with her in a three parter, Crisis on Three Earths, in her title. Was she ever considered second to Superman in this era?

    Modern Age, Diana is powered up and Superman is powered down, so their power levels are more in alignment than ever before.. or the Golden Age. Diana is touted as the second most powerful character after Superman in the DCU. Perez’s reboot begins to show this and originally it was his plan to show her powers and strength growing as she matured. (Which I thought was a great idea.) Still, she’s not always/consistently shown doing incredible feats of strength in the same way as other characters.

    Phil Jimenez and Greg Rucka show Diana capable of warrior-ing and persevering against Superman physically (even if Rucka’s ending of that battle is more than a little messy and problematic for Diana.)

    DCnU continues this trend where we see Diana capable of lifting up battleships with Superman and holding her physical own, at least as well as Superman, against Darkseid with the rest of the Justice League.

    In some ways, I don’t care if Diana is as physically strong as Superman, because her strength is comparable and she’s so much more skilled than him in battle that it even the odds between them.

    I’m using Superman references as that’s the character she’s most compared to strength- and power-wise.

  7. #52
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    Diana didn't move a sun, read the actual story

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Being immune to bullets doesn't mean she can never get hurt.
    However, it does mean writers don't have to go above and beyond to make up reasons why she can get hurt. Being weak to stronger firepower can create a sense of consistency and a good sense of realism, when the writer gets it right.

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    However, it does mean writers don't have to go above and beyond to make up reasons why she can get hurt. Being weak to stronger firepower can create a sense of consistency and a good sense of realism, when the writer gets it right.
    They should be going up and beyond right now. To explain how her body is supposed to be capable of surviving hits from Superman. But a bullet can kill her as if she was just a regular human. WW has been a pathetic weaklink for a while now. So either they start putting their money where their mouth and is and show her so called powerhouse status. Or stop wanking her as a powerful being when she clearly doesn't have the performances to prove it. With her being vulnerable to pretty much anything like a regular being when she is supposed to be powered up by Gods, yet can be killed by almost anything like i could be killed, and no God gave me powers.

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    They should be going up and beyond right now. To explain how her body is supposed to be capable of surviving hits from Superman. But a bullet can kill her as if she was just a regular human. WW has been a pathetic weaklink for a while now. So either they start putting their money where their mouth and is and show her so called powerhouse status. Or stop wanking her as a powerful being when she clearly doesn't have the performances to prove it. With her being vulnerable to pretty much anything like a regular being when she is supposed to be powered up by Gods, yet can be killed by almost anything like i could be killed, and no God gave me powers.
    How can we take so much damage to our bodies from blunt forces but a little bug can literally kill us.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    However, it does mean writers don't have to go above and beyond to make up reasons why she can get hurt. Being weak to stronger firepower can create a sense of consistency and a good sense of realism, when the writer gets it right.
    She's a superhero in a world with magic and technology far more advanced than our own. "Going above and beyond" is standard for such a character and Diana should be no different.

    And it isn't like "keeping on her toes" has any payoff hiven she's been shot twice and hasn't thought to wear something less revealing and more protective.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    How can we take so much damage to our bodies from blunt forces but a little bug can literally kill us.
    People have died from blunt force trauma and not all bug bites are fatal.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 05-14-2022 at 10:54 PM.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    How can we take so much damage to our bodies from blunt forces but a little bug can literally kill us.
    Our bodies aren't even that durable. A freaking mosquito can produce enough force to penerate our skin. Even smalll cuts in our bodies take a good amount of time to heal. I would expect a so called powerhouse with Godly powers that can allegedly survive a nuke, getting punched by a bloodlusted superman and all, to not have a body as vulnerable as ours.

  14. #59
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    People have died from blunt force trauma and not all bug bites are fatal.
    You mean you're not super durable? weird.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    You mean you're not super durable? weird.
    Weird is to suggest that a character like WW is supposed to have a body comparable to humans in durability. I thought she was supposed to be super powerful. And no, humans aren't super durable. Our bodies are extremily weak, can be hurt by pretty much anything. Yet you think that a super human that is supposed to be God like should have a body as limited as ours? Weird.

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