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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathangoop1811 View Post
    No idea, personally I think the cover is misleading, and she won't return, and is just the Celestials talking about her with Peter.
    I don't understand. Don't get me wrong, but why would the Celestials judge Spider-Man here? I mean, there are other Marvel heroes who would need a judgement more than Spidey. For example, Iron Man, Hulk, Reed Richards, Hank Pym... Basically all the genius who have tampered with things humanity should have never do.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathangoop1811 View Post
    Yeah, when he let the thief gone, it was a mistake, he was just a civilian with powers, so even if one can argue he also guilty of Uncle Ben's death, he wasn't a hero back then, so it doesn't counts so much as a failure, and more as a genuine mistake, I mean, despite everything, even with his power, Peter was just a kid in a costume, and he has being hurt by bullets, so letting the thief gone is not exactly something bad, it really wasn't his responsibility and he probably would have just endangered his own life, something he didn't thought he had to do until his Uncle died, so it doesn't count in his failures as a hero.

    Now, again Mephisto, there has being no mention of Peter damned his soul to hell, he made a deal with Mephisto, but there has being no proof that it wil stop him from going to heaven, specially since he didn't sell his soul, only his marriage, and again, even if he did, I don't think the Celestials wouldn't care, again the consequences are only affecting Peter and MJ, both made the deal, and they saved one innocent soul, his Aunt May, not sure exactly how the Celestials would see him, but that is not something they would care about, don't see it from the point of view of a normal human, don't think about the fact that Peter denied his Aunt eternal rest, something that she will eventually get, and for now she has lived a good life, so from the point of view of this powerful beings, who don't really care much for specific humans, or whether they will be happy or not, they would probably only see this as proof how much Peter is willing to do to save lives, again don't see it from our point of view, imagine it from their point of view, the deal didn't get anyone killed, and didn't caused anything that except ruin Peter's life, something they won't care about, so no reason to judge him in this, their ideas of good and bad is different from ours.

    With Norman, yeah, that is something that most likely would have happened and Peter probably has taken in consideration, he was in a no win situation, so he chose what he thought was right, but it got Gwen killed, and to their eyes most likely, they won't care about how Peter couldn't have done anything against Osborn, they see what he didn't tried to do, he didn't tried to stop him completely, we have even seen in Life Story that Norman could have being send to prison, he would still be a monster, still would ruin Peter's life, but he tried, he took the risk to prevent Norman from hurting people and did the right thing, in 616, Peter didn't do enough, didn't tried.

    And yeah, the lives he has saved over the years is something that most likely will be taken in consideration, but at the end, people have still died, and I'm sure they will accept that some were lives Peter did everything he could to save, but Gwen is a different matter, there have also being other cases of Peter making mistakes that caused people to suffer or die, so I think it won't be a question of whether Peter has saved more people than he has failed to save, I think it will be a judgement of his character, and if he can be the hero he is trying to be, the one who does his absolute best to save lives, the Gwen situation is his first example of failure, one where he was still Spider-Man, still tried to do right, but failed, and a significant part of it, is because he took bad decisions and he wasn't good enough, so can he say now that he has finally become a hero that the Celestials can trust to protect humanity, or he will do another mistake that will cause innocents to die, can he live up to his responsibility?
    Gwen was actually not the first who died since Peter became a hero: That was her father Captain Stacy. As for Peter, he is not God, he makes mistakes, and guess what? So did other heroes: Sherlock Holmes, James Bond, Batman, Superman, Captain America and just about every fictional character ( even Perry Mason who lost only one case). Why single out Peter?

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    Gwen was actually not the first who died since Peter became a hero: That was her father Captain Stacy. As for Peter, he is not God, he makes mistakes, and guess what? So did other heroes: Sherlock Holmes, James Bond, Batman, Superman, Captain America and just about every fictional character ( even Perry Mason who lost only one case). Why single out Peter?
    You have an excellent point, pal. But you are forgetting Peter's first "death": Uncle Ben. Peter didn't became a hero at that moment, but it's still something that Peter had to carry on for years.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    I don't understand. Don't get me wrong, but why would the Celestials judge Spider-Man here? I mean, there are other Marvel heroes who would need a judgement more than Spidey. For example, Iron Man, Hulk, Reed Richards, Hank Pym... Basically all the genius who have tampered with things humanity should have never do.
    Hank Pym is still dead. (I'm surprised too.)

    Kinda hard for him to be judged right now.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    I don't understand. Don't get me wrong, but why would the Celestials judge Spider-Man here? I mean, there are other Marvel heroes who would need a judgement more than Spidey. For example, Iron Man, Hulk, Reed Richards, Hank Pym... Basically all the genius who have tampered with things humanity should have never do.
    They are all getting judged

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    Gwen was actually not the first who died since Peter became a hero: That was her father Captain Stacy. As for Peter, he is not God, he makes mistakes, and guess what? So did other heroes: Sherlock Holmes, James Bond, Batman, Superman, Captain America and just about every fictional character ( even Perry Mason who lost only one case). Why single out Peter?
    Again, George Stacy died saving a child, being a hero, he willingly gave his life, that's different, but the public still blamed Peter, the situation with Gwen is far more complicated, it's bad decisions of Peter and Norman targeting her that got her killed.

    And not saying they don't deserve to be judged, or that Peter is completely guilty, just explaining what he is getting judged about, the Celestials will judge everyone, and Gwen's death is one that Peter does share a big part of responsibility over it.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    You have an excellent point, pal. But you are forgetting Peter's first "death": Uncle Ben. Peter didn't became a hero at that moment, but it's still something that Peter had to carry on for years.
    This is judging Spider-Man as a hero, Uncle Ben's death was before he dedicated himself to save lives.

    Yeah, when he let the thief gone, it was a mistake, he was just a civilian with powers, so even if one can argue he also guilty of Uncle Ben's death, he wasn't a hero back then, so it doesn't counts so much as a failure, and more as a genuine mistake, I mean, despite everything, even with his power, Peter was just a kid in a costume, and he has being hurt by bullets even when he is more experienced, so letting the thief gone is not exactly something bad, it really wasn't his responsibility and he probably would have just endangered his own life, something he didn't thought he had to do until his Uncle died, so it doesn't count in his failures as a hero.
    Last edited by Jonathangoop1811; 05-21-2022 at 11:37 AM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    You have an excellent point, pal. But you are forgetting Peter's first "death": Uncle Ben. Peter didn't became a hero at that moment, but it's still something that Peter had to carry on for years.
    I mentioned Uncle Ben before.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Can't wait to learn how it gets worse, uncle Ben next? Or maybe that's too obvious... Burglar next?
    I loved it when the burglar's daughter was a regular cast on Sensational Spider man.

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    I don't understand. Don't get me wrong, but why would the Celestials judge Spider-Man here? I mean, there are other Marvel heroes who would need a judgement more than Spidey. For example, Iron Man, Hulk, Reed Richards, Hank Pym... Basically all the genius who have tampered with things humanity should have never do.
    Peter would still accept the punishment and he should only be punish for giving up his marriage to save his dying 80 year old aunt
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

    "I need a reason to take the mask off."-Peter Parker

    "My heart half-breaks at how easy it is to lie to him. It breaks all the way when he believes me without question." Felicia Hardy

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    I loved it when the burglar's daughter was a regular cast on Sensational Spider man.
    When Ben Reilly was Spider-Man? Yeah, good times.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

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