Gwen Stacy returns for Amazing Spider “Judgement Day” tie-in

[NC_Yankee]

This may be a question of empathy. If a character revealed they did not die peacefully and unaware, but mentally suffering and horrified, most people with strong empathy would think that is terrible and it would haunt them. It also means Gwen was fully aware Peter was there and did not save her. Again, for people who have strong empathy, this would be horrifying new knowledge. This isn’t headcanon, it’s basic human psychology.

Peter may not have the strongest empathy, but he does have guilt in spades. I agree Slott did not pull on that thread, instead making Gwen’s and Peter’s conversation about how Gwen felt about Peter as she died (once more not centering her but rather Peter in Gwen’s own death) - but to me, that just underscores he does not write believable characters with believable human reactions.



Most people would tell you in moments of high stress in which you are under attack/threat of dying, you’re not thinking about your boyfriend’s secret identify even if you just learned it. You’d be thinking about how to get out of danger/save your life. Hierarchy of priorities.



But her thoughts are nearly all about Peter! Poor Gwen can’t even star in her own death. She continues to be just the weepy, horribly acted on but rarely active in her own right girlfriend. There is nothing knowing Gwen’s thoughts adds to the story, except to up her suffering and the tragedy porn even more.


Agree!

Peter has more empathy then people realize. Think about when he and MJ went to see the Connors family during the Spencer run. Another example ( and it indirectly led to Gwen’s death) was covering up the fact that Norman was Goblin so as not to hurt Harry. He has also had empathy for Otto because of his condition ( multiple arms). The only ones he had no empathy ( let alone pity for) were Fisk, Von Doom and Morbius ( he really dislikes him for some reason).

[Digifiend]

Fisk and Doom I can understand - Fisk was a major crime lord (hence his codename Kingpin) with enough power to get away with his crimes (he even eventually became the Mayor) while Doom is a dictator who he's powerless to do anything about. Spidey, the FF and the other heroes can't arrest him because he has diplomatic immunity!

But Morbius... isn't his backstory something of a tragedy? He had an illness, tried to cure himself, ended up as a vampire?

[Lukmendes]

This may be a question of empathy. If a character revealed they did not die peacefully and unaware, but mentally suffering and horrified, most people with strong empathy would think that is terrible and it would haunt them. It also means Gwen was fully aware Peter was there and did not save her. Again, for people who have strong empathy, this would be horrifying new knowledge. This isn’t headcanon, it’s basic human psychology.

Peter may not have the strongest empathy, but he does have guilt in spades. I agree Slott did not pull on that thread, instead making Gwen’s and Peter’s conversation about how Gwen felt about Peter as she died (once more not centering her but rather Peter in Gwen’s own death) - but to me, that just underscores he does not write believable characters with believable human reactions.

Well, Spidey is just a fictional character, he'll only suffer as much as the writer makes him, real world psychology won't really affect him when most writers don't bother with those lol.

Spidey failing to realize what it means for Gwen to be awake when she died is not the first time a Spidey writer failed to understand how much suffering he should be going through.

Look at George's death, in theory there should be plenty of guilt for him to have been the indirect reason a father and daughter got killed, but in practice, Spidey only ever remembers Gwen and George is lucky if he gets to be a footnote.

The most ridiculous example of all is Charlemagne though, she's the only person Spidey directly killed, that should give writers plenty of material to write angst porn right? Yet, she's only been referenced a total of 3 times, and in only one of those it was in a Spidey comic (ASM#655, the other ones were in Marvel Comics#1000 and Daredevil#23 vol 6), and ASM#655, the earliest reference, only happened 25 years after her death.

So yeah, in theory, Gwen being awake when she got killed should've made Spidey even guiltier, in practice, it doesn't matter if we're not actually shown him suffering over it, or him being said to have felt angst over it, more than once Spidey should be suffering more but the writers haven't done so, Gwen's situation is just another.

Most people would tell you in moments of high stress in which you are under attack/threat of dying, you’re not thinking about your boyfriend’s secret identify even if you just learned it. You’d be thinking about how to get out of danger/save your life. Hierarchy of priorities.

Yeah, and I said that was silly lol.

Fisk and Doom I can understand - Fisk was a major crime lord (hence his codename Kingpin) with enough power to get away with his crimes (he even eventually became the Mayor) while Doom is a dictator who he's powerless to do anything about. Spidey, the FF and the other heroes can't arrest him because he has diplomatic immunity!

Spidey is powerless against Doom in more than one sense as well, on a direct fight he'd just be extremely unlikely to win, it's even a plot point in Spencer's 2099 arc in ASM, where Spidey used the Clairvoyant to try to find a future where he manages to defeat Doom and he fails in all of them, so he has to find another way to stop him lol.

But Morbius... isn't his backstory something of a tragedy? He had an illness, tried to cure himself, ended up as a vampire?

Yeah the basic idea of Morbius is a slightly more tragic version of Connors lol

[captchuck]

This is a universe where the 100 year old (give or take) Aunt May comes back from the dead. I have no problem with Gwen's death being a bad dream...

[Matt Rat]

This is a universe where the 100 year old (give or take) Aunt May comes back from the dead. I have no problem with Gwen's death being a bad dream...

A good thing the post-OMD era is canonically a bad dream according to Stan.

[fin5]

Is this Gwen from the clone conspiracy? I thought she desenagrated at the end or is she still alive,Like ned is.I should read it again i forgot about it

[Refrax5]

Fisk and Doom I can understand - Fisk was a major crime lord (hence his codename Kingpin) with enough power to get away with his crimes (he even eventually became the Mayor) while Doom is a dictator who he's powerless to do anything about. Spidey, the FF and the other heroes can't arrest him because he has diplomatic immunity!

But Morbius... isn't his backstory something of a tragedy? He had an illness, tried to cure himself, ended up as a vampire?

Yeah, Peter frequently had pity for Morbius, but at times was very freaked out by him, which manifested as anger. I think it was more disgust than actual hatred. Morbius is a pretty sympathetic character.

[Lukmendes]

Is this Gwen from the clone conspiracy? I thought she desenagrated at the end or is she still alive,Like ned is.I should read it again i forgot about it

It's not exactly confirmed, but she's most likely dead, since a Hobgoblin (Likely Macendale), a Green Goblin (Hamilton), and Jack O' Lantern (Likely Steven) all were about to attack her, and when Spidey returns to her, her coat is there, but not the clone dust, but again, most likely dead.

[captchuck]

A good thing the post-OMD era is canonically a bad dream according to Stan.

Oh good! It wouldn't surprise me that Stan Lee said it!

[Lee]

Oh good! It wouldn't surprise me that Stan Lee said it!

He didn't say that.

[Matt Rat]

He didn't say that.

He used a comic strip as a platform to say it.

[Lee]

He used a comic strip as a platform to say it.

No he didn't.

[Ursalink]

First of all, we should ask: How has Gwen returned this time? I mean, another clone? (Please). Or does this mean the Gwen from the Clone Conspiracy actually survived?

[Crazyspideyfan]

Peter has more empathy then people realize. Think about when he and MJ went to see the Connors family during the Spencer run. Another example ( and it indirectly led to Gwen’s death) was covering up the fact that Norman was Goblin so as not to hurt Harry. He has also had empathy for Otto because of his condition ( multiple arms). The only ones he had no empathy ( let alone pity for) were Fisk, Von Doom and Morbius ( he really dislikes him for some reason).

Yeah Pete is extra mean to Morbius for some reason lol, Ben seemed to have more compassion for him when they fought. Like I’m pretty sure Connors has done much more horrendous things than Michael, yet Peter always completely wails on him. It was even worse in that storyline that took place around ASM 688-690 where Peter had no mercy for him. Slott was already alluding to Peter being more serious and less empathetic than usual after Grim Hunt and during Ends of the Earth, before Otto replaced him.

[NC_Yankee]

Yeah Pete is extra mean to Morbius for some reason lol, Ben seemed to have more compassion for him when they fought. Like I’m pretty sure Connors has done much more horrendous things than Michael, yet Peter always completely wails on him. It was even worse in that storyline that took place around ASM 688-690 where Peter had no mercy for him. Slott was already alluding to Peter being more serious and less empathetic than usual after Grim Hunt and during Ends of the Earth, before Otto replaced him.

I think Peter’s most empathetic was against Rhino. When Rhino went on a rampage after his wife’s death, and Peter decided to take off his mask and talk to him. He pointed out that she would not like the way he was acting and Peter understood a loss ( meaning Gwen). Rhino actually responded positively and went away. A very underrated modern Spider-Man story. As for Morbius, I never understood why he despised him more then Norman, Cletus etc. But it is what it is: He just does.