Creating characters to make headlines vs characters that actually stick around.

[phonogram12]

TBF, while not a diverse character, can anyone tell me that Captain America was created with the intent to NOT make headlines? He debuted even before the US had entered WW2 and Jack Kirby even had nazi sympathizers threaten his life.

It's not just characters from marginalized groups that are created to make headlines. It's just easier to notice them because the baseline has always been white straight males.

[Riv86672]

A lot of them have failed but are not being allowed to fail and get relaunched again and again. And they fail because the people creating them are creating them purely to be diverse and are largely hacks with no talent. Though when it comes to the cheap headline grabbing, a new character is always better than an old character becoming a mantle, which is better than retconning an old character. It's creating a token versus the tokenization of an already established character. But this is all we get nowadays. The comic companies forgetting that their primary purpose is to entertain.

^^^I agree w. most of this.
It’s the comic book equivalent of the one guy who makes a point of saying they have [insert marginalized group] friend.
Plus I don’t like being pandered to, told I should like something because it checks certain boxes/and hey this character’s just like ME.
I’ve never based liking a character on their color, political/religious beliefs, sexual orientation, etc. matching my own.

[lefthanded]

I actually question the central premise that Marvel is creating characters to grab headlines vs creating characters with staying power. I'd argue that DC in recent years is more guilty of that.

Kate Bishop, Kamala Khan, Miles Morales all are recent new characters that feel like they have staying power. Miles definitely, as he has the comics plus the successful movie franchise. Kamala probably has the weakest comic level support currently, and it doesn't really seem like is an iconic rogues gallery or storyline she's been a part of. But, both Kate and Kamala have support in the MCU which will likely have them stick around for at least awhile longer.

America Chavez might be a character that could go the way of Adam X (who I have never heard of) or Marrow. I am not sure how much her cinematic appearance is resonating in pop-culture, but in terms of comics she hasn't had anything really memorable.

Robbie Reyes is being pushed really hard by Aaron on the avengers, but it doesn't seem like Aaron's run is all that well received at large. So that could be another character that lacks staying power, but it certainly doesn't seem like its based on lack of comic support.

[Agent Z]

At least Marvel is creating new characters, derivative or not, and allowing creators a chance (maybe not enough, debatable I suppose) to make them memorable.
Especially as it relates to expanding the diversity of active heroes whatever that looks like for any given character.

Over at DC they are just taking existing characters and dong a "SURPRISE", that character you've always known for decades is not who you knew after all.

Naomi, Yara Flor, Silencer, Sideways, Equinox, Jon Kent.

DC makes new characters all the time. Sometimes they succeed, other times they don't. Same as Marvel, who are no strangers to altering characters for the sake of a twist (see the 90s Clone Saga).

[Omega Alpha]

DC definitely isn't alone in that kind of thing. Look at Iceman...a shitty joke in a Chuck Austen X-Men comic a decade-plus ago and now it's his defining quality, thanks to Bendis's oh so gentle touch.

Iceman was rumored and speculated to be gay or at least bi since the 80's though. Lobdell was clearly hinting at that before Onslaught, and Mike Carey said he wrote him as gay. This idea that Bendis made up out of thin air without anyone seeing anything is non-sense.

Does anyone else fear that a lot of these diverse characters that have been created in the last decade or so are going to go the way of Marrow and Adam X in a few years? I feel many of them aren't putting enough equity into the kind of stuff that actually makes for a long-lasting character. Most of them seem like derivative spin-offs of more popular characters, or they lack a rogue's gallery or much of a supporting cast of their own. They seem like the kind of characters that will wind up on some b or c list team 20 years from now and readers will say "hey remember that character." Is it that hard to actually build up the world around a superhero nowadays? What makes characters like Spiderman so popular is the fact that you have an interesting character surrounded by an interesting world. Some of these characters have the first part down pat, but most of them seem lacking in the second part.

Sometimes I feel Marvel is creating these characters to catch momentary headlines, then has no idea what to do with them after that.

Many of them already are already footnotes (Mosaic, I'm looking at you).

Marvel has gimmicky characters designed to chase trends at least since the 70's, but Luke Cage (blaxploitation), Shang-Chi (Bruce Lee/kung-fu films) and Dazzler (disco), for example, manage to grow out of it and becoming fully fledged characters. Hell, as phonogram12 pointed out, Cap. America himself could be argued as a case of a character created to generate headlines.

[9th.]

Naomi, Yara Flor, Silencer, Sideways, Equinox, Jon Kent.

DC makes new characters all the time. Sometimes they succeed, other times they don't. Same as Marvel, who are no strangers to altering characters for the sake of a twist (see the 90s Clone Saga).

Glad you mentioned Silencer and Sideways, DC had a whole line of original characters that went nowhere. The book that lasted the longest was the one with recognizable characters in it. You can only do so much if not enough people are interested in supporting the newer characters. Why wouldn't you make Asian Batman of fans are going to pay attention to it more than an original concept? Now don't get me wrong no one is obligated to support new characters just because but you gotta realize why DC and Marvel keep pumping out legacies instead of another Mosaic.

Also I feel like the title isn't fair, it's making you choose one or the other when you can accomplish both. These days you kinda have to make a headline or the characters will get buried, there's way too many options out now and comics ridiculously expensive. Most don't have the luxury or failing and getting a relaunch.

[skyvolt2000]

Many of them already are already footnotes (Mosaic, I'm looking at you).

They have teased something with Mosaic. However both his creators are dealing with bigger projects.

Redjack-Green Lantern & Blood Syndicate among other things.
Khary Randolph-a few projects include Excellence at Image.

You also have to consider what you are allowed to work on when you don't own the characters and dealing with editors.

Leah Williams will gladly tell anyone that with as many characters she and Vita have been fighting to get books or appearances for in X-Men alone.

DC had a whole line of original characters that went nowhere.

That is because you have a bunch of entitled fans who viewed those books as threats, beneath some of the creative teams or should have never been made.

Food for thought...

We had an Asian Superman running around. NOBODY bought up his race. That book went 24 issues and the trades did very well on Amazon. What did that book do that Jace and his gang are NOT being allowed to do?

Like Kenan-the OGs are running around at the same time. Yet he did not get a 100th of the backlash the others have gotten.

Funny what happens when folks BOTHER to read the book instead of throwing FITS or deeming someone is only for headlines.

[Chris0013]

In general it can't just be throw it against the wall and see what sticks. They need to invest the time. Look at Blindspot who was introduced in Daredevil a few years back...and then reboot and new creative team and he is gone. Books like DD and Captain America would be the place to bring in some new blood like that. Bring Blindspot back to DD. And with Sam doing his own thing and Bucky being put to good use elsewhere give Steve a new partner. Can Eli be used? Or bring back and update Vagabond? Or create someone new altogether.

[Riv86672]

In general it They need to invest the time. Look at Blindspot who was introduced in Daredevil a few years back...and then reboot and new creative team and he is gone. Books like DD and Captain America would be the place to bring in some new blood like that.

^^^Nice.
And yeah, that’s how Falcon started after all.
Maybe it’s just not a quick enough turn around nowadays? Falcon was built up over literally years of regular/semi-regular/sporadic appearances.

[Thor-Ul]

I think is more complicated than only said if a character is created for make headlines.

All characters are created to tell and to sell a story. A character created to make headlines can stick around but characters than stick around could come from anyplace. The reasons for a character to stick around, that are really the hard to get. Could be a good writing or a good penciler, the editor knows how to make the character popular, maybe the character captures the zeitgeist of the historical momentum, the publicity used is big enough.
Now we live in a time where publicity is more used more aggresively, but before also ther were publicity stunts than sticked and other than flopped.
But making headlines with a character just created is a double sword risk: it can attract attention, but also you risk to make your fall more evident.

[Zero Hunter]

Yes because we are seeing too much pushback for those character just existing.

Lets take War Machine-he was in Iron Man, took over for Tony twice, got a mini and then got his ongoing.
Tim Drake pops in Batman, 3-4 years later got a mini and then another and then his ongoing and then Young Justice while still being in Batman other books.

Now we can't do that without fits of entitlement being thrown.

Suddenly Batman is unreadable because Duke Thomas is in it.

Becaue what your describing is not what they do these days. You can cry racism all you want (which is what your doing) but both Jim Rhodes and Time Drake were built up slowly and in Tims case filling a role that had bee empty for a few years. With most modern characters it is usually BAM here they are give them their own book and slap them in any team they can to give them the forced big push. If you just want to look for racsim in everything you read that is all you are ever going to find.

[Babylon23]

In general it can't just be throw it against the wall and see what sticks. They need to invest the time. Look at Blindspot who was introduced in Daredevil a few years back...and then reboot and new creative team and he is gone.

I agree. The biggest problem facing new characters is the willingness of new creative teams to keep building those characters after their creators have moved on.

Jim Rhodes is a perfect example of building a character over time when multiple creative teams are willing to continue that characters growth. Michelinie and Layton introduced him as a supporting cast member in Iron Man in 1979. Denny O'Neill followed them on the title and transformed Jim into Iron Man four years after his first appearance. Jim Shooter used him in Secret Wars and Roger Stern had him join the West Coast Avengers. Even after he gave up the Iron Man role he continued to feature heavily in that book through successive creative teams (Michelinie/Layton then Byrne) until Len Kaminski transformed him into War Machine in 1992. That's 13 years of character building across 4 successive creative teams to get him to his most famous persona, the identity that enabled him to finally appear in his own solo series.

[Babylon23]

With most modern characters it is usually BAM here they are give them their own book

This isn't exactly a modern phenomenon though. Look at some of the titles that were launched in the 70's without any lead-in from other titles or try-out books like Marvel Spotlight/Premiere - Tomb of Dracula, Nova, Skull the Slayer, Luke Cage Hero for Hire, Monster of Frankenstein, Shanna the She-Devil, Captain Britain, The Eternals, Devil Dinosaur. In the 80's there was She-Hulk and Power Pack. Darkhawk and Sleepwalker in the 90's.

I always liked the idea of the tryout books - Strange Tales, Marvel Spotlight, Marvel Premier, Astonishing Tales, etc. They gave new characters a chance without launching them straight into their own series. Books like Marvel Team-Up and Two-In-One helped to draw attention to new character as well. Unfortunately, these kind of books don't sell in the modern event-era age of "important" comics.

[Chris0013]

This isn't exactly a modern phenomenon though. Look at some of the titles that were launched in the 70's without any lead-in from other titles or try-out books like Marvel Spotlight/Premiere - Tomb of Dracula, Nova, Skull the Slayer, Luke Cage Hero for Hire, Monster of Frankenstein, Shanna the She-Devil, Captain Britain, The Eternals, Devil Dinosaur. In the 80's there was She-Hulk and Power Pack. Darkhawk and Sleepwalker in the 90's.

I always liked the idea of the tryout books - Strange Tales, Marvel Spotlight, Marvel Premier, Astonishing Tales, etc. They gave new characters a chance without launching them straight into their own series. Books like Marvel Team-Up and Two-In-One helped to draw attention to new character as well. Unfortunately, these kind of books don't sell in the modern event-era age of "important" comics.

I really wish Marvel would bring one of those titles back. An anthology series with a rotating creative team to bring back minor characters who have not been seen in a while and introduce some new ones to gauge feedback.

[PCN24454]

TBF, while not a diverse character, can anyone tell me that Captain America was created with the intent to NOT make headlines? He debuted even before the US had entered WW2 and Jack Kirby even had nazi sympathizers threaten his life.

It's not just characters from marginalized groups that are created to make headlines. It's just easier to notice them because the baseline has always been white straight males.

By 1940s standards, being Irish was diverse, so he arguably used to count.