View Poll Results: Which are the best female-led superhero movies?

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  • Alita: Battle Angel (2019)

    10 13.51%
  • Atomic Blonde (2017)

    9 12.16%
  • Barb Wire (1996)

    4 5.41%
  • Birds of Prey (2020)

    4 5.41%
  • Black Widow (2021)

    17 22.97%
  • Captain Marvel (2019)

    12 16.22%
  • Catwoman (2004)

    2 2.70%
  • Elektra (2005)

    1 1.35%
  • Ghost in the Shell (2017)

    4 5.41%
  • Red Sonja (1985)

    2 2.70%
  • Sheena (1984)

    2 2.70%
  • Supergirl (1984)

    4 5.41%
  • Tank Girl (1995)

    3 4.05%
  • Wonder Woman (2017)

    51 68.92%
  • Wonder Woman 1984 (2020)

    3 4.05%
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  1. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    This says more about those movies than it does about Wonder Woman. It's not Patty Jenkins' fault that make led superhero movies don't treat their female love interests like characters.
    When fleshing out the love interest comes at the expense of the protagonist's relationships with everyone else in the movie then it's a problem. The romance with Steve is basically the only meaningful relationship Diana has other than that with the Amazons, who disappear from the movie after the first 20 minutes or so. The conflict with her mother is treated like an afterthought, the death of her aunt, who we are supposed to think of as an important mentor, has barely any impact for the rest of the movie, as everything else they get overshadowed by the romance the film decided to dedicate most of its running time to.

    In the end Diana's arc revolves mostly around a romance with a man. Female empowerment much? When this got even more obvious and problematic in the sequel people were rightfully pointing it out, but in fact WW1984 was a pretty logical continuation of what they had established in the first one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I was going to say...Diana and Steve's romance/relationship was kind of the heart of the movie and would not have worked near as well if Steve wasn't a three-dimensional character in his own right alongside Diana.
    Well it didn't need to have a romance in the first place.

    I'm not saying female superhero movies should never have a big focus on romance, I just think it was a poor choice for a movie they were pushing as the first female superhero blockbuster.
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

  2. #47
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    When fleshing out the love interest comes at the expense of the protagonist's relationships with everyone else in the movie then it's a problem. The romance with Steve is basically the only meaningful relationship Diana has other than that with the Amazons, who disappear from the movie after the first 20 minutes or so. The conflict with her mother is treated like an afterthought, the death of her aunt, who we are supposed to think of as an important mentor, has barely any impact for the rest of the movie, as everything else they get overshadowed by the romance the film decided to dedicate most of its running time to.

    In the end Diana's arc revolves mostly around a romance with a man. Female empowerment much? When this got even more obvious and problematic in the sequel people were rightfully pointing it out, but in fact WW1984 was a pretty logical continuation of what they had established in the first one.
    I don't think Diana's arc revolves around Steve so much as it revolves around her discovering more about humanity and Man's World and growing from her more idealized vision and expectations versus reality, which is depicted in her meetings with the Oddfellows (who I feel like she at least got to know well enough) and her developing relationship with Steve.

    I also feel like her conflict with Hippolyta and Antiope's death is what made her so driven to try and end WWI beyond her own personal ideals.

    I don't think it makes it any less of a female empowerment story just because a male character had a big impact on the female character. Ultimately it just served the female characters' story, especially since the male love interest ended up dead.
    Well it didn't need to have a romance in the first place.

    I'm not saying female superhero movies should never have a big focus on romance, I just think it was a poor choice for a movie they were pushing as the first female superhero blockbuster.
    Diana's origin is kind of a "boy meets girl" type of story, so I feel like that's true to the source even if the movie didn't treat it as love at first sight like the comics did.

  3. #48
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    Without analyzing it, (maybe I'll think of something later) but it's interesting that with most male heroes, they either lose their love interest in the beginning (the "fridging" motivation) or they "get the girl" at the end. How many times do we see the hero lose their love interest at the end to earn their growth? (unless the love interest was bad in some way, which Steve wasn't - he was a martyr)

    An action movie where I can think of one is "The Terminator." But that was another female hero.(and the guy was another martyr)
    Last edited by j9ac9k; 05-15-2022 at 10:14 AM.

  4. #49
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    I thought about this. And I know I am in the minority. But from start to finish, it didn't have the highest highs of some of the others but I think Captain Marvel is the best female super hero movie. But for me it was the most consistent.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it helped that it was a little more subtle about it, but it was also more of a romance than Perez's WW.
    Yeah, George pretty much avoided making them a romantic couple. I thought the movie handled the relationship pretty well though. I could buy into the idea that Diana could be attracted to this version of Steve Trevor.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Without analyzing it, (maybe I'll think of something later) but it's interesting that with most male heroes, they either lose their love interest in the beginning (the "fridging" motivation) or they "get the girl" at the end. How many times do we see the hero lose their love interest at the end to earn their growth? (unless the love interest was bad in some way, which Steve wasn't - he was a martyr)

    An action movie where I can think of one is "The Terminator." But that was another female hero.(and the guy was another martyr)
    The second Andrew Garfield Spiderman maybe? But to be fair, they were basing it on a popular comics story.

  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    The second Andrew Garfield Spiderman maybe? But to be fair, they were basing it on a popular comics story.
    That one also crossed my mind immediately. And didn't Elektra die pretty much towards the end in the Affleck Daredevil flick?
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think Diana's arc revolves around Steve so much as it revolves around her discovering more about humanity and Man's World and growing from her more idealized vision and expectations versus reality, which is depicted in her meetings with the Oddfellows (who I feel like she at least got to know well enough) and her developing relationship with Steve.

    I also feel like her conflict with Hippolyta and Antiope's death is what made her so driven to try and end WWI beyond her own personal ideals.

    I don't think it makes it any less of a female empowerment story just because a male character had a big impact on the female character. Ultimately it just served the female characters' story, especially since the male love interest ended up dead.

    Diana's origin is kind of a "boy meets girl" type of story, so I feel like that's true to the source even if the movie didn't treat it as love at first sight like the comics did.
    I understand it that there are different variations of the origin though? Could have gone with the platonic partnership then.

    Or keep the romance but cut some of these scenes and give Diana meaningful interactions with other characters instead. I mean it's not that every Diana/Steve scene they put in was important for their characterization, there were also plenty of cheap sex jokes for example or him mansplaining obvious things to her.

    Pick a Spider-Man movie and his romance with MJ or Gwen gets enough focus without completely overshadowing Peter's relationships with Aunt May, Harry, or the lingering impact of Uncle Ben.
    Tolstoy will live forever. Some people do. But that's not enough. It's not the length of a life that matters, just the depth of it. The chances we take. The paths we choose. How we go on when our hearts break. Hearts always break and so we bend with our hearts. And we sway. But in the end what matters is that we loved... and lived.

  9. #54
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    I thought this was gonna be an easy win for Atomic Blonde in the votes, I guess i was wrong. But i vote for it.

  10. #55
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    I understand it that there are different variations of the origin though? Could have gone with the platonic partnership then.

    Or keep the romance but cut some of these scenes and give Diana meaningful interactions with other characters instead. I mean it's not that every Diana/Steve scene they put in was important for their characterization, there were also plenty of cheap sex jokes for example or him mansplaining obvious things to her.

    Pick a Spider-Man movie and his romance with MJ or Gwen gets enough focus without completely overshadowing Peter's relationships with Aunt May, Harry, or the lingering impact of Uncle Ben.
    97% of the time it's Steve Trevor crashing on Paradise Island and spurring Diana to head to Man's World. Actually the movie and Greg Rucka's Rebirth run helped bring the relationship with Steve, and Steve in general, back to prominence after years of not being relevant or being relegated to discount Nick Fury.

    I feel like the sex jokes and mansplaining came more at Steve's expense when Diana educated him on the Amazons or just went her own way, from what I remember.

    I think the thing is that those other relationships would've been with the Amazons and you can't really have them involved in the movies plot after the origin. Granted, I would have loved to have seen them do more with Etta.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    That one also crossed my mind immediately. And didn't Elektra die pretty much towards the end in the Affleck Daredevil flick?
    True, but since she was created as Frank Miller's take on the femme fatale - someone morally compromised who dies for her sins. She was less "bad" in the movie, but she was still meant to be a tragic figure who died because she chose the path of vengeance. (which falls under the category of "love interest who dies because they were bad in some way" which isn't atypical in stories with a male hero)

    I think "ASM2" with Gwen is a more valid example for the question as I posed it.
    Last edited by j9ac9k; 05-15-2022 at 12:31 PM.

  12. #57

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    TBH Wandavision blows all of these choices out of the water. But for movies...probably Wonder Woman (2017).

  13. #58
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    Diana interacts with more than just Steve. She finds all men disappointing and struggles to trust any of them. But when she decides to do it all herself, no matter what they say, she's surprised to see them by her side, taking up her cause. She learns that mortal men, while flawed, are worthwhile human beings. There's shots where Diana looks to her side as she's running and she sees Steve there, going along with her. She realizes that this guy, who doesn't have her powers, is going to be there for her. And it's only after he's proven his worth to her that she decides to take him as a lover--she has all the agency and Steve is okay with that. She loses faith in him and at that moment she's nearly defeated by Ares. In the end, Steve makes the ultimate sacrifice and restores her faith in humanity. He's integral to her character development.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    It's still a movie about a masked woman with superpowers (mostly) fighting crime. It just isn't accurate to the sourcd material.
    The problem is, outside of being a masked woman (which, there are quite a few in general), and the title card, it has NOTHING to do with the source material. If the movie was called Cat Lady, Dom Cat, or some other BS name, it literally would not have changed anything because there is nothing of the source material in the film.

    BTW. Went with Wonder Woman 1. Great film, slightly disappointing ending, but still enjoyable.

    And though I have a number of issues with Ghost in the Shell in terms of casting, its at least based on the source material. Birds of Prey... Barely so, considering its a Harley film in all but name, with the others just thrown in there.

  15. #60
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    Wonder Woman (2017), hands down, IMO.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

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