Doctor Strange 2: Can [[SPOILER]] be redeemed after the movie?

[QuinnFillory]

Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is now in theaters, and everyone is talking about it, especially the big twist concerning the main villain. Spoiler: The villain in this film is actually none other than Wanda Maximoff, aka the Scarlet Witch. While she has been corrupted by the Darkhold, she is still killing scores of people in order to take away America Chavez's powers to use for herself to gain back her children. While her motives are understandable, the actions she takes are horrifying. Now, with her comic book background to consider, the question is, can Wanda Maximoff be redeemed? I mean, everyone still cared about Loki, and he killed a lot of people. On the other hand, people are still mad at Starlord for attacking Thanos in Infinity War and ruining everyone's chances at stopping him. So, it can go either way for Wanda.

https://gizmodo.com/doctor-strange-2...ism-1848919397

https://www.themarysue.com/who-is-th...tor-strange-2/

https://www.themarysue.com/doctor-st...-wanda-powers/

https://www.themarysue.com/the-diffe...and-a-villain/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/do...ine/ar-AAXf8yu

[MaximoffTrash]

If she lands herself a competent writer, yeah, maybe.
But she will need a lot of narrative favor and positive framing which she generally lacks even before the sudden villain turn.

[gurkle]

Yes, it's completely out of character for her to be trying to kill a child and kidnap someone else's children, after we just saw her willingly erase her children from existence to stop torturing people.

Wanda fans unfortunately have to say this a lot, but bad writing should not define a character. Just like House of M turned her into a crazy self-hating mutant for no reason, and there is no reason for fans or future writers to pretend that was in character.

Since the movie had her suddenly and for no good reason turn good again near the end of the film (after acting so crazy and evil for two hours, why would she change just because those kids are afraid of her?), the next team can just write the whole thing off as the Evil Book taking over her mind, just the way this movie ignored everything from "WandaVision."

Characters should not be defined by their worst, most out-of-character stories; she's already "redeemed" because the movie made no case that she would ever have done such things, so it must be the fault of the book (aka the writers) rather than the character we know.

[CJStriker]

This is honestly the same kind of thread and question that was asked on the TV/Films Board, so my answers will be the same;

While I have not decided to see the movie yet myself, The diccusions I have been having about the with others online have been very vocal in details on what happen and breaking it down more then enough, both the good and the bad.

By those long detialed talks, It is an Easy YES!

It is for me not just as a fan, but as logic by what the story gave to us with that boils down to simple Possession & Manipulation by the darkhold and by fact of history of other media that have done similiar stories over the decades. For the Record, while I am more possionte in saying this about Wanda, if this is a story ever about anyone else that had a simliar story done to them, I Logically say the very same defense of them as well.

Ad to the factor when she comes to from the Manipulation, she destroys the manipulator in all realties to save others from it. It is an example of the differnce between the true person and the demon they are made into during possession.

It is scatterd threwout MoM that the same happens to everyone(Mostly Stranges) who are effected by the Said Darkhold and have done worst with it, so it is not just a Wanda thing. But still it boils down to manipulation and possessed by the book, so any character, hero or common, effect by such is always given the road to come back and should still stand today.

To give better diccusions on this topic are bellow for further into this, but their are many more around:

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post6038359

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post6040151

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post6040546

[Galerion]

This is the kind of poll that is actually really hard to answer because like 3 of the answer are valid at the same time. I mean of course can she be redeemed. I don't feel there is any kind of doubt about it and that is obviously up to the writers. If she is a good person at heart though is a more interesting question.
Is Captain America a good person at heart? I think most would say yes.
Are Black Widow or Wolverine good people at heart despite regularly killing people? Many would probably still say yes or would at least throw the term anti-hero out.
Is the Punisher a good person at heart? That's suddenly where many people would say no despite him killing gangsters just like Wolverine or Black Widow would do.
Is Iron Man a good person at heart? Remember that he actively supported this




Morality is by definition subjective and things are not black and white but more different shades of grey. That's how I see MCU Wanda. She just wants happiness and that is certainly not something villainous but events in her life repeatable snatched it away from her.
Not hard to see how that could influence a person and lead them down a certain path. I think that's why the MoM arc lends itself well to redemption because she saw what she had become. She went from someone who had happiness taken away from her to someone who would actually do that to others without mercy. That realization is horrifying and will give her a lot to chew. That being said if she finds happiness I expect her to do anything to defend it. Upset her enough or threaten or hurt people she cares about and there is no guarantee you will be able to walk away from it which it which is fair enough IMO.

And lastly of course it was fun to see Wanda unleashed for once. It's not like that will be an occurrence that you will be able to see often just because of narrative reasons.

[PCN24454]

No argument as to why Captain America might not be good?

This is why morality isn’t subjective.

[gurkle]

I think morality isn't completely subjective and the movie was pretty explicit that Wanda had lost her sense of morality. She'd gone from willingly sacrificing her kids to stop torturing people, to wanting to kill a child and anyone else gets in her way.

It's one of the many reasons she wasn't a good villain. A good villain is someone who actually believes in what they're doing, even if it's bad. But Wanda, as she was portrayed in WandaVision, wouldn't kill to keep her children from dying, let alone kidnap another version of them. She was so out of character that it could only be explained by "corruption" (i.e. bad writing), and at the end of the movie she went back to normal without any buildup. Wanda's arguments for what she's doing don't work because we already know she doesn't believe in those arguments herself.

[GenericUsername]

Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is now in theaters, and everyone is talking about it, especially the big twist concerning the main villain. Spoiler: The villain in this film is actually none other than Wanda Maximoff, aka the Scarlet Witch. While she has been corrupted by the Darkhold, she is still killing scores of people in order to take away America Chavez's powers to use for herself to gain back her children. While her motives are understandable, the actions she takes are horrifying. Now, with her comic book background to consider, the question is, can Wanda Maximoff be redeemed? I mean, everyone still cared about Loki, and he killed a lot of people. On the other hand, people are still mad at Starlord for attacking Thanos in Infinity War and ruining everyone's chances at stopping him. So, it can go either way for Wanda.

https://gizmodo.com/doctor-strange-2...ism-1848919397

https://www.themarysue.com/who-is-th...tor-strange-2/

https://www.themarysue.com/doctor-st...-wanda-powers/

https://www.themarysue.com/the-diffe...and-a-villain/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/do...ine/ar-AAXf8yu

There's already a thread about this.

Yes all characters they turn bad can be redeemed. Like what was discussed in that thread, it's a common Marvel trope. They turn a character bad, have them turn good again.

[GenericUsername]

No argument as to why Captain America might not be good?

This is why morality isn’t subjective.

Cap wasn't around long enough for them to do the two times Red Skull took over his body nor Nazi Cap.

[Dipter]

Of course lol. In the logic of comics and anime, a character is never so far gone that they can't turn things around, regardless of how much damage they've done. She was already set back on the path towards redemption by the end of the film.

[Agent Z]

Yes, it's completely out of character for her to be trying to kill a child and kidnap someone else's children, after we just saw her willingly erase her children from existence to stop torturing people.

Wanda fans unfortunately have to say this a lot, but bad writing should not define a character. Just like House of M turned her into a crazy self-hating mutant for no reason, and there is no reason for fans or future writers to pretend that was in character.

Since the movie had her suddenly and for no good reason turn good again near the end of the film (after acting so crazy and evil for two hours, why would she change just because those kids are afraid of her?), the next team can just write the whole thing off as the Evil Book taking over her mind, just the way this movie ignored everything from "WandaVision."

Characters should not be defined by their worst, most out-of-character stories; she's already "redeemed" because the movie made no case that she would ever have done such things, so it must be the fault of the book (aka the writers) rather than the character we know.

Between Age of Ultron and WandaVision, I don't think you can call Multiverse of Madness out of character for MCU Wanda.

[Dreaded Porcupine]

I just came from Dr Strange 2. I like to go see movies when the theatre isn’t packed with cell phone junkies and talkers. Poor Wanda. She can’t get a break. I liked the movie but hate what Marvel has done to Wanda’s character. She can be redeemed. Just like Hank Pym can too. Give both characters to Al Ewing.

[Frontier]

Between Age of Ultron and WandaVision, I don't think you can call Multiverse of Madness out of character for MCU Wanda.

I mean, if you ignore the whole point of WandaVision and Wanda's character development, sure.

[gurkle]

Between Age of Ultron and WandaVision, I don't think you can call Multiverse of Madness out of character for MCU Wanda.

It’s subjective of course, but WandaVision had her wipe her kids from existence— and the show portrayed the kids and her Vision as real (hence that conversation between the two Visions about which one was the real one) — when she found out she could only keep them alive by torturing others. And the show made a big deal about how she wouldn’t kill.

Then with no setup except a 30 second tag (which itself contradicts the movie) she wants to kill a child and many more so she can kidnap copies of the children she willingly sacrificed.

There’s a huge grey area between hero and villain. There was no reason to believe WandaVision Wanda would do any of what she did in this movie, which is why they used the book as a lazy excuse for the getting her character wrong.

[GenericUsername]

It’s subjective of course, but WandaVision had her wipe her kids from existence— and the show portrayed the kids and her Vision as real (hence that conversation between the two Visions about which one was the real one) — when she found out she could only keep them alive by torturing others. And the show made a big deal about how she wouldn’t kill.

Then with no setup except a 30 second tag (which itself contradicts the movie) she wants to kill a child and many more so she can kidnap copies of the children she willingly sacrificed.

There’s a huge grey area between hero and villain. There was no reason to believe WandaVision Wanda would do any of what she did in this movie, which is why they used the book as a lazy excuse for the getting her character wrong.

That's what people don't get, are the finer details of it. Morally gray becomes equal to sensationalized dark mass murder for some reason. When there are obvious differences. Neither are particularly heroic, but one is reluctant to kill. The other went all Lore-like on everyone.