I dislike the handling and reaction of Tim's relationships

[Ascended]

You can be a boiling glob of hormones and still have manners. Not being a jerk about sex says nothing about Tim's orientation. But he was clearly written as being attracted to those women, and caring about them. Which doesn't discount the idea that he isn't straight, of course.

Again, do we know what he is yet?

And thanks for the info regarding him and Steph, folks. I thought they were sleeping together but the memory was fuzzy.

[Waterfall]

You guys are making a big deal about a fictional character's sexual orientation. The main point of these stories is to kick villain asses. Which person the hero kisses at the end shouldn't be a huge issue.

[Felipe Silveira]

You guys are making a big deal about a fictional character's sexual orientation. The main point of these stories is to kick villain asses. Which person the hero kisses at the end shouldn't be a huge issue.

You missed the point here.
The problem is that DC just made Tim's sexual orientation his only attraction and importance for the Batman franchise. The character, today, has nothing else.

[ZuLuLu]

You missed the point here.
The problem is that DC just made Tim's sexual orientation his only attraction and importance for the Batman franchise. The character, today, has nothing else.

Given that his sexual orientation or his dating life are not going to play a major role in the up coming Batman series that not true.

It just getting attention because it is new.

[Felipe Silveira]

Given that his sexual orientation or his dating life are not going to play a major role in the up coming Batman series that not true.

It just getting attention because it is new.

you're talking about the future

[Arctic Cyclist]

You can be a boiling glob of hormones and still have manners. Not being a jerk about sex says nothing about Tim's orientation. But he was clearly written as being attracted to those women, and caring about them. Which doesn't discount the idea that he isn't straight, of course.

Again, do we know what he is yet?

And thanks for the info regarding him and Steph, folks. I thought they were sleeping together but the memory was fuzzy.

He's bisexual. Which means he's sexually and romantically attracted to both men and women. If we use the traditional definition, which in modern parlance is pansexual, he can also be attracted to trans and gender fluid folks. Of course, given that this is comics, it would also mean non-humans.

Officially, though, he's only bisexual which means male and female.

The disturbing thing is how many people equate bi with gay and continue to erase that someone can be attracted to more than one gender.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

He's bisexual. Which means he's sexually and romantically attracted to both men and women. If we use the traditional definition, which in modern parlance is pansexual, he can also be attracted to trans and gender fluid folks. Of course, given that this is comics, it would also mean non-humans.

Officially, though, he's only bisexual which means male and female.

The disturbing thing is how many people equate bi with gay and continue to erase that someone can be attracted to more than one gender.

People are already trying to erase his relationships and feelings for Stephanie and downplay it. Just look at Wayne Family Adventures.

[ShadowSJG]

He's bisexual. Which means he's sexually and romantically attracted to both men and women. If we use the traditional definition, which in modern parlance is pansexual, he can also be attracted to trans and gender fluid folks. Of course, given that this is comics, it would also mean non-humans.

Officially, though, he's only bisexual which means male and female.

The disturbing thing is how many people equate bi with gay and continue to erase that someone can be attracted to more than one gender.

I mean he could be homo or heteroromantic bi

[ClassicalComics]

It isn't about what he could be. He isn't a real person. He's an idea. He was created straight and has been straight his entire tenure in comics until several months ago. And it's ludicrous to change that now. Showing the writer and those who approved the retcon don't care about his character. Which is why you don't have to pretend that it is in any way a natural character progression or he has always been attracted to men. You can only change an idea so much until it becomes a wholly different idea. And there are many elements that must be maintained to make every character recognizable. Sexual orientation is one of those elements. As is gender and race. Personality traits. Changing said features takes the character off model. Which was happened in the New 52 with his origin and now with this reckless press-seeking change.

[Ascended]

He's bisexual.

Is that official, or just assumption?

Well, if he's bi that's a bit of a letdown. I was hoping he'd be sapiosexual. That would've been quite fitting I think. Alas, I didn't really expect DC to do something like that, they'll think making him bi is groundbreaking and unique, even if it's almost passé these days.

It isn't about what he could be. He isn't a real person. He's an idea. He was created straight and has been straight his entire tenure in comics until several months ago. And it's ludicrous to change that now.

Eh, they changed Allan Scott's orientation and that guy has been around for eighty years, has two ex-wives and two kids. If DC is willing to change Allan's orientation then changing Tim, who's only been around for maybe thirty years, isn't surprising.

Generally I agree with the idea of not screwing around with characters. If you want to push a LBGT Bat, use Kate Kane. She's a fantastic character who should be getting more attention anyway.

But I also recognize the struggle publishers have with this situation; representation matters but most of the big name characters were created in less enlightened times (ergo, they're almost all straight white guys). New characters don't tend to catch on. Most of the diverse characters who've been around a while, like Obsidian, have failed to catch on. Leaves damn little room to work with, and having some successful characters come out of the closet while you do what you can with the other two groups (established Z-listers and new characters) is as viable a solution as you're gonna find.

It's a shame, really. I'd rather see Obsidian and Kate Kane used, than see a character changed around just to meet a quota and achieve the representation that DC should have been developing decades ago. But nobody is gonna buy an Obsidian solo book, nor will they care about him joining a team like the League. Robin coming out of the closet is a bigger deal, even if it does bend Tim's characterization.

I figure, these characters change all the time. Superman today doesn't look much like the guy from 1938, or the guy from 1962, or even the guy from 1986. In some ways, Tim being bi (or whatever he is) is a smaller change than what Clark has seen over the decades. At least Tim's personality is still the same, y'know? Hell, this is a smaller change than what Tim went through in the New52.

[Noodle]

It isn't about what he could be. He isn't a real person. He's an idea. He was created straight and has been straight his entire tenure in comics until several months ago. And it's ludicrous to change that now. Showing the writer and those who approved the retcon don't care about his character. Which is why you don't have to pretend that it is in any way a natural character progression or he has always been attracted to men. You can only change an idea so much until it becomes a wholly different idea. And there are many elements that must be maintained to make every character recognizable. Sexual orientation is one of those elements. As is gender and race. Personality traits. Changing said features takes the character off model. Which was happened in the New 52 with his origin and now with this reckless press-seeking change.

If we're beholden exactly to what the character was created as then he should still have both his parents.

[ZuLuLu]

If we're beholden exactly to what the character was created as then he should still have both his parents.

If the entire Batman franchise was beholden to exactly what it was created to be he should not exist.

[Psy-lock]

Comic book characters go through radical changes all the time and Tim's sexuality is a very small change in comparison. Batfans are lucky that their favorite characters remain fairly consistent and don't get a new origin story every five years or so like the Hawks or Donna Troy

[SiegePerilous02]

How does confirming Tim likes boys as well as girls change his character in any meaningful way again?

Yeah maybe it's pandering, but the straights get pandered to as a default all the time. Spread the love around. And it's not like any of Tim's female relationships have taken off except Steph, and by definition, his being bisexual doesn't erase that history or potential for them to get back together.

[Ascended]

How does confirming Tim likes boys as well as girls change his character in any meaningful way again?

Yeah maybe it's pandering, but the straights get pandered to as a default all the time. Spread the love around. And it's not like any of Tim's female relationships have taken off except Steph, and by definition, his being bisexual doesn't erase that history or potential for them to get back together.

Aw, I love being called one of "the straights." Totally not insulting at all. Almost as good as being called a "breeder."

As I said, I'm fine with Tim being LBGT, but I'm not cool with pandering. That's not representation, that's a halfassed effort to shut people like us up. If we wanna reach a point where LBGT characters are common enough to not warrant discussions like these, then we need a hell of a lot better than pandering.