Immortal X-Men #2 Review/Spoilers

[ChronoRogue]

Judging by your standards,they should also get rid of Rachel and Madelyne, who Claremont and Simonson have both admitted were meant to be Jean’s “doppelganger[s],” so that they could tell stories with them that they really wanted to tell with Jean.

Every character is someone’s favorite. We should try to be respectful of that.

I like Rachel, but it's no surprise she gets used much less when Jean is around. As far as getting rid of them, no, and that was never my argument; its just how I feel about the characters.

As for the last comment, the person asked others to share why they might not like Hope. And I don't think I've been disrespectful at all in this discussion, being respectful doesn't mean you need to like what the other person likes.

See here

I just want to know why so many people on this forum hate Hope Summers, I think she is a great character with a great history.

[Triniking1234]

I'll just post what i posted in the selene thread and i'm donezo.

sinsiter has done far worse things than selene in this era alone. He killed his hellions, raided Tarn's stuff which nearly got Krakoa attacked and all of that was swept under the rug. But they hunt selene down, kill her conveniently, alter her very personality and then kill her again all just to show how far some members of the council will go, namely one willing to violate her own stance on being the head of resurrections for a plot that was created in the same book simply for this moment. Yeah... That's a plot device. Selene was just fine before this and was more of an asset (the dna sinister offered was the asset) to Krakoa then sinister this whole era even helping in X-corp. This was not a death that was earned but it is what it is i guess. I'm not going on her personality i'm going on the story and where we are and what has been happening in this very era. This is as convenient as say mutants being excess deviants that the Externals need to weed out.

I like how all this ignores the fact that Selene summoned a monster to destroy the home of most of the mutant population and then ran away to sip bloody tea. All because she got salty for losing a job interview. Like there was no way she was coming back from a stupid move like that.

And you're really comparing this to Sinister? The dude got away with it cuz he did it behind people's back and he technically didn't break the 3 Laws so nothing happened. Just like when Shaw killed Kitty and just like Mystique and Emma conspired against Charles and Erik.

Also I know you read the previous issue so I don't even know why you're upset Hope went back to her Cable ways when the point of these two issues were to lead Hope into a more pro-active role in protecting Krakoa instead of just hatching eggs whole day even if that meant capping people.

[PyroFN]

Emma is not the council member I trust after she sold Destiny a seat for a trinket and helped turn Moira into a menace.I guess it was ordained by the powers that be.. as for Sinister,I blame Xavier for not heeding Moira's caution or disapproval.Like is Xavier that dumb not to trust Nemesis or Beast with the bio-data? Surely there could have been a more desperate way to bring Sinister on board under extreme duress but later if he is that needed.Having Sinister hanging a 'debt' over Xavier makes for better in story intrigue and optics than just offering this traitor a job.

The only guy I trust on the council is ironically the one everyone calls nuts.He is in it for Krakoa(at least until proven otherwise)

Emma is sly, but not without reason. She is like Magneto in that “the end justify the means”. At the end of the day, she joined Krakoa on the promise Xavier made to her when he proposed the idea to her and as far as we can tell, her diverting all focus to the council means she plans to keep a firm eye on the corruption of the Council (see her thwarting Sinister, Sebastian Shaw, and Moira). Emma is far from a just character, but she has the most experience dealing and seeing corruption, so I’m that sense, she could be seen as the most genuine to a fault, despite taking under-handed tactics to maintain the status quo.

There is a definitely flaw in the dealing of Sinister, but writers seem to love him, I guess.

[sunofdarkchild]

For me Hope's status as a plot device for so long prevented me from having any real interest. Then when her purpose was fulfilled in AvX they didn't seem to have any direction for her for a while. It's only relatively recently I've started to see her as a character instead of a plot device. But outside of her hair color she's got nothing in common with Jean.

Rachel is a different story. Having the same powers and becoming the Phoenix for an extended period makes them pretty similar. The thing that initially set her apart, coming from a dystopian future where mutants are being hunted to extinction, was stolen away by Bishop and he became the character known for that. The one other big thing for Rachel was her being Kitty's best friend/soul mate, which didn't last when her original best friend/soul mate came back. It's easy to see why Rachel is so easily forgotten.

[PyroFN]

I like how all this ignores the fact that Selene summoned a monster to destroy the home of most of the mutant population and then ran away to sip bloody tea. All because she got salty for losing a job interview. Like there was no way she was coming back from a stupid move like that.

And you're really comparing this to Sinister? The dude got away with it cuz he did it behind people's back and he technically didn't break the 3 Laws so nothing happened. Just like when Shaw killed Kitty and just like Mystique and Emma conspired against Charles and Erik.

Also I know you read the previous issue so I don't even know why you're upset Hope went back to her Cable ways when the point of these two issues were to lead Hope into a more pro-active role in protecting Krakoa instead of just hatching eggs whole day even if that meant capping people.

That’s exactly what I’ve been saying.

The issue I take with this comic has more to do with Selene choosing to sick a giant kaiju on Krakoa to begin with. I would have hoped she would have something more diabolical than summoning a giant monster. Or at least, started a coup while hidden away, instead of running to the enemies of Krakoa that made her vulnerable to Hope’s deus ex machina bullet.

That, I would have agreed to being a problem with the book.

[Milici]

What happend with Candra and the rest of the Externals? are they back?

[Saithor]

I like how all this ignores the fact that Selene summoned a monster to destroy the home of most of the mutant population and then ran away to sip bloody tea. All because she got salty for losing a job interview. Like there was no way she was coming back from a stupid move like that.

And you're really comparing this to Sinister? The dude got away with it cuz he did it behind people's back and he technically didn't break the 3 Laws so nothing happened. Just like when Shaw killed Kitty and just like Mystique and Emma conspired against Charles and Erik.

Also I know you read the previous issue so I don't even know why you're upset Hope went back to her Cable ways when the point of these two issues were to lead Hope into a more pro-active role in protecting Krakoa instead of just hatching eggs whole day even if that meant capping people.

Because apparently #Girlboss? I wouldn’t have used that if people weren’t literally calling Selene that on the forums. But seriously, I have my issues with the Quiet Council that I have brought up many many times, Selene is so much worse for her literal temper tantrum of attempted mass murder. She’s a petulant child masquerading as an adult who honestly is less well-suited for the council than frigging Colossus, post or pre reality warper mind control. Even Sinister at least is intelligent about things.

But seriously, there needs to be a defined penalty for outright murder on the island at this point. I know, I know resurrection protocols but supposedly they were so behind on things at some point that we needed to suffer through the making of a pit where Apocalypse could beat mutants to death while figuratively beating his meat and ranting philosphy at them to try and alleviate some of it.

[Saithor]

That’s exactly what I’ve been saying.

The issue I take with this comic has more to do with Selene choosing to sick a giant kaiju on Krakoa to begin with. I would have hoped she would have something more diabolical than summoning a giant monster. Or at least, started a coup while hidden away, instead of running to the enemies of Krakoa that made her vulnerable to Hope’s deus ex machina bullet.

That, I would have agreed to being a problem with the book.

I mean, she’s always been this petulant and full of herself. I honestly don’t see it as that much of a departure.

[Rev9]

Emma is sly, but not without reason. She is like Magneto in that “the end justify the means”. At the end of the day, she joined Krakoa on the promise Xavier made to her when he proposed the idea to her and as far as we can tell, her diverting all focus to the council means she plans to keep a firm eye on the corruption of the Council (see her thwarting Sinister, Sebastian Shaw, and Moira). Emma is far from a just character, but she has the most experience dealing and seeing corruption, so I’m that sense, she could be seen as the most genuine to a fault, despite taking under-handed tactics to maintain the status quo.

There is a definitely flaw in the dealing of Sinister, but writers seem to love him, I guess.

Yours is an optimistic view,I'll give you that.With favours with Kate,Storm, Destiny and Mystique ,secrets on Sinister, blackmail of Shaw, disparaging (and humiliation) of Magneto and whatever else she has in her repertoire..it wouldn't surprise me If Emma wants sole leadership of Krakoa and is laying all the groundwork.

[jwatson]

I like how all this ignores the fact that Selene summoned a monster to destroy the home of most of the mutant population and then ran away to sip bloody tea. All because she got salty for losing a job interview. Like there was no way she was coming back from a stupid move like that.

And you're really comparing this to Sinister? The dude got away with it cuz he did it behind people's back and he technically didn't break the 3 Laws so nothing happened. Just like when Shaw killed Kitty and just like Mystique and Emma conspired against Charles and Erik.

Also I know you read the previous issue so I don't even know why you're upset Hope went back to her Cable ways when the point of these two issues were to lead Hope into a more pro-active role in protecting Krakoa instead of just hatching eggs whole day even if that meant capping people.

lol at this point all i hear when i read someone say Selene summoned a monster is literally" Gillien in his first issue had Selene unceremoniously summon a monster because she lost a council seat to hope who all of a sudden felt she needed a voice on it and in the same issue Sinister is playing with time with moria clones. In issue two sinister is a hero, hope is proving why she is the right one on the council she just decided to be on last issue by using the reason she said she should be on it to basically violate selene (and if it can happen to selene what stops it from happening to anyone) and selene is being beaten and mind altered for what she did in issue 1." so it is what it is at this point. lol

[Havok83]

So is Exodus a god now? Because wasnt that what classified Storm as a goddess?

I like Rachel, but it's no surprise she gets used much less when Jean is around. As far as getting rid of them, no, and that was never my argument; its just how I feel about the characters.

As for the last comment, the person asked others to share why they might not like Hope. And I don't think I've been disrespectful at all in this discussion, being respectful doesn't mean you need to like what the other person likes.

See here

Does she? Because when we learned Jean was returning, that was one fear that people had yet Rachel has been used just as much since Jean came back,if not more. She had quite some time in limbo prior to X-men Gold, but she's been used fairly consistently with no actual hiatus in the time since Jean came back

LMAO I didn't mean power wise. I meant in the 'Redhead destined for greatness/godhood/messiahdom, got her moment and is now living in the aftermath of it' way.

Hope was created as a throwback and stand-in for Jean during Jean's absence. It's no coincidence she fell into obscurity when Teen Jean arrived on the scene.

Your statement still doesnt make sense. They fill two different roles. Jean cant be utilized in this era the way Hope is and vice versa. There is nothing redundant or irrelevant about Hope currently. This is the most relevant she's been since AVX

[andreikes]

So is Exodus a god now? Because wasnt that what classified Storm as a goddess?

Well, it's just having/creating a religion and having followers

[Saithor]

lol at this point all i hear when i read someone say Selene summoned a monster is literally" Gillien in his first issue had Selene unceremoniously summon a monster because she lost a council seat to hope who all of a sudden felt she needed a voice on it and in the same issue Sinister is playing with time with moria clones. In issue two sinister is a hero, hope is proving why she is the right one on the council she just decided to be on last issue by using the reason she said she should be on it to basically violate selene (and if it can happen to selene what stops it from happening to anyone) and selene is being beaten and mind altered for what she did in issue 1." so it is what it is at this point. lol

A). Since when have the X-books treated messing with someone’s head like a crime and a violation of privacy? It should be but the books very rarely do whenever the heroes feel the need to.

B). If your argument against Selene is that she only acts this way because the Author decided, then yes, she acted this way in the story because the author chose her to. That’s the same case for literally every character.

C). Selene has always been a petty barely grown out of her early teens villainess. She’s petty. She’s impulsive. She doesn’t like being told no. And if you’re upset that she got beat up, it’s not exactly unprecedented. Hi Warlock! Hi Upstarts!

[ChronoRogue]

So is Exodus a god now? Because wasnt that what classified Storm as a goddess?



Does she? Because when we learned Jean was returning, that was one fear that people had yet Rachel has been used just as much since Jean came back,if not more. She had quite some time in limbo prior to X-men Gold, but she's been used fairly consistently with no actual hiatus in the time since Jean came back

Historically? Yes.

80s? Jean dies for a period, serves on X-Factor (satellite title) and Rachel is a major player in Uncanny.
90s? Jean focused, Rachel nowhere
00s? Jean focused early on, Rachel comes back during the latter half of X-treme just as Jean is exiting (or died, I forget).
10s? Rachel is used here and there, Jean doesn't come back till the latter half of the decade and then focus shifts heavily to her for awhile.

Though the Krakoa era since X-Factor is doing better for Rachel rn, agreed.

[Marvelman]

I enjoyed this book! But couldn't Proteus have turned the Kaiju into jello?