Immortal X-Men #2 Review/Spoilers

[ChronoRogue]

They have worked at making her different, until HOX POX. But honestly even at her worst there were enough differences for it to work for me.

I have a low tolerance for Legacy characters, so if you're the type of fan that enjoys or likes that, I think it's not difficult to overlook that frustrating part of Hope.

For me it's a combination of that, the annoyance of her use in several plots (AvX still stains her), and there just not being many stories I enjoy her in.

I think Generation Hope was actually her best incarnation, because I liked the implication her powers had a dark and manipulative side to them. Her interaction with the Lights and now the Five is still interesting, but it never gets really delved deep into. When she's being a straight-forward Messiah, she's much less interesting.

[Milici]

I have a low tolerance for Legacy characters, so if you're the type of fan that enjoys or likes that, I think it's not difficult to overlook that frustrating part of Hope.

For me it's a combination of that, the annoyance of her use in several plots (AvX still stains her), and there just not being many stories I enjoy her in.

I think Generation Hope was actually her best incarnation, because I liked the implication her powers had a dark and manipulative side to them. Her interaction with the Lights and now the Five is still interesting, but it never gets really delved deep into. When she's being a straight-forward Messiah, she's much less interesting.

How is she a legacy character?

[ChronoRogue]

How is she a legacy character?

Red-head with a connection to the PF. She was originally literally intended as Jean.

I think at one point, Emma gets PTSD from the similarities lmao.

[Jackraow21]

How is she a legacy character?

If she's a legacy character of anyone, it's Cable. Not Jean.

And who doesn't have a connection to the Phoenix force at this point? Even Wolverine has been a host. Ha. Right now it's freakin' Echo, which makes zero sense... freakin' Jason Aaron...

[Rev9]

I just think the idea of the Mutant Messiah and the Religious Fanatic teaming up has a lot of potential. Hope has evolved from being a plot device a long time ago, I really liked her when she was the leader of the MLF, she get things done and is not whiny.

Also I am not a fan of Cable but his relationship with Hope is his biggest redeeming quality for me.

This can go two ways either Exodus is inspired by Hope and starts believing in himself for once instead of making a human mutant utopia in the guise of Magneto(talk about self abnegation) or he is going to be a slow burn villain corrupting Hope like some false prophet to borrow eschatological language ,hoping to summon some entity that mimicks the Phoenix back into her as a vessel. I hope it's the former..with Gillen one can never be sure.

[ChronoRogue]

If she's a legacy character of anyone, it's Cable. Not Jean.

Sorry, it's Jean. That was her original concept and she was intentionally written with that in mind for most of her early history.

I guess you can argue she evolved into being more like Cable, but Legacy characters don't always need to be exactly like who they were originally associated with. (see many of the robins like Nightwing, Red Hood, etc...)

[Jackraow21]

Also I am not a fan of Cable but his relationship with Hope is his biggest redeeming quality for me.

But you should be a Cable fan. He's an awesome character with a lot of cool layers that have been added since his creation... from the Casey/Ladronn run to the Tischman Soldier X run to the Nicieza-penned Cable/Deadpool series that did some really cool things with him to, yes, the relationship with Hope that was established from Messiah Complex through the Swiercynski Cable series through Second Coming. That to me was one of the best layers. Perhaps because I became a father to a baby girl around that time and used to read her comics when she was little... but I digress.

Sorry, it's Jean. That was her original concept and she was intentionally written with that in mind for most of her early history.

I guess you can argue she evolved into being more like Cable, but Legacy characters don't always need to be exactly like who they were originally associated with. (see many of the robins like Nightwing, Red Hood, etc...)

Still not seeing her as Jean. But that's okay. I think it was implied that she was conceived by the Phoenix Force to right the wrong that Wanda did on M-day, and last time I checked that was not Jean's original concept. At all. Jean didn't even bond with the Phoenix for many, many years after her creation. Jean also wasn't raised as a solider in a dystopian future, and her powers are totally different than Hope's. The fact that both wielded the Phoenix Force and have red hair are their only similarities that I can see.

[Milici]

Sorry, it's Jean. That was her original concept and she was intentionally written with that in mind for most of her early history.

I guess you can argue she evolved into being more like Cable, but Legacy characters don't always need to be exactly like who they were originally associated with. (see many of the robins like Nightwing, Red Hood, etc...)

She was created as the salvation of mutantkind and the culmination of the Decimation era, her power, methods and personality are nothing like Jean.

[Rift]

I don't know why you guys are arguing about a character's validity, role or how they compare to other characters. While you can have different views on how they've been written, they all have their own niches and qualities that make them special. But those qualities are unimportant in the long run, because all characters are objectively inferior to Hellion.

[Mercury]

Sorry, it's Jean. That was her original concept and she was intentionally written with that in mind for most of her early history.

I guess you can argue she evolved into being more like Cable, but Legacy characters don't always need to be exactly like who they were originally associated with. (see many of the robins like Nightwing, Red Hood, etc...)

Judging by your standards,they should also get rid of Rachel and Madelyne, who Claremont and Simonson have both admitted were meant to be Jean’s “doppelganger[s],” so that they could tell stories with them that they really wanted to tell with Jean.

Every character is someone’s favorite. We should try to be respectful of that.

[Jackraow21]

I don't know why you guys are arguing about a character's validity, role or how they compare to other characters. While you can have different views on how they've been written, they all have their own niches and qualities that make them special. But those qualities are unimportant in the long run, because all characters are objectively inferior to Hellion.

Hahaha. Perfect mic drop right here.

[ChronoRogue]

Still not seeing her as Jean. But that's okay. I think it was implied that she was conceived by the Phoenix Force to right the wrong that Wanda did on M-day, and last time I checked that was not Jean's original concept. At all. Jean didn't even bond with the Phoenix for many, many years after her creation. Jean also wasn't raised as a solider in a dystopian future, and her powers are totally different than Hope's. The fact that both wielded the Phoenix Force and have red hair are their only similarities that I can see.

I mean, reader interpretation is fine but your more arguing against what was the writers intent. Though they clearly did eventually pivot from the comparison.

She was created as the salvation of mutantkind and the culmination of the Decimation era, her power, methods and personality are nothing like Jean.

I mean you could mostly say the same about Rachel (outside of her powers), but Rachel is still very much a Legacy character. As is Madelyne.

Just having the same powers isn't the only reason people associate her with Jean, which clearly does happen.

[Shortpack!]

If anything, I hope this humbled Selene enough, that she’ll work with Krakoa now rather than against it. Obviously others have their own agenda like Sinister and Shaw, but they go about it secretly and not an all out attack on Krakoa like Selene did. Hopefully she’ll come back, but this time be more deceptive.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! *takes breath* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

For real, though... After such a shining glorious Selene having her best moment in YEARS, then she gets... well... this.

Rachel and Magma are going to be disappointed.

[PyroFN]

Honestly i think i would be bias if i was expecting hope to be the hope she was almost a decade a go. I am basing this on Hope as she has been presented through the entirety of this story. The hope who in new mutants made a case for madelyne to be resurrected because everyone deserved a chance.

That is not at all what Hope was standing up for.

Madelyne was being denied resurrection because they were claiming her to be another aspect of Jean Grey running around. They were basically claiming Madelyne wasn’t her own person by saying she was just a clone, not acknowledging that she has her own thoughts, feelings, and experiences. This was raising an issue that somehow Laura, Gabby, and the Cuckoo’s got passed where characters like Evan and Madelyne were affected by.

Hope wasn’t advocating everyone deserving resurrection. She was advocating that Madelyne was her own person and not just Jean Grey.

Now i can see if there were some issues and we saw Hope arrive at this choice of being the "true hope" and all that, that would be a story, i stand by this feeling like a forced plot and also seeing it from the side of what Selene has done in the era to krakoa and for krakoa the same as i'm looking at hope and sinister and xavier and the reactions in this continuation of the story.

Except the only difference between this Hope and her older character is that she is more passive and less paranoid than she usually is as an effect of Krakoa being a safe haven. And we clearly see Gillen illustrate that in a few simple words from Hope. Hope not bringing her gun is illustrative of how Krakoa has sheltered mutants and thus, Hope let her guard down, something she never usually does.

That is the only difference in this era of Hope compared to others. Beyond that, Hope has been sidelined.

It all literally happened in one issue. Selene turn, hope turn, sinister turn, and the fact that it just is what it is. Well it is what it is. lol But it's what literally happened. You can't say take other characters opinions in to view when the story didn't provide those, this was not dragged out, we did not get into the heads of selene those had "suffering", there was no deeper moment or motivation here.

In two issues it was literally. This is how i see Sinister, This is how i see hope, this is how i see the council but none of it has been earned. We just skipping through plot points at this point.

I can because the motivations have been clear since the beginning. I don’t need them to spell out to me why the Council would be furious with Selene for attacking Krakoa or why they think Sinister is more of an asset when he not only has a full database of genetics still under his possession, but is actively fighting to save Krakoa.

The deeper motivations were going on with Exodus, Hope, Sinister, and Destiny. The book did deliver on it, but you weren’t here for those perspectives. Exodus perception of Hope was evolving as Hope was trying to prove exactly who she is and what her role will be. Sinister was enacting his plan to show his dedication to Krakoa to keep under the radar. Destiny was dealing with Selene messing with her powers while hinting at having more a relationship to Sinister that he does not seem to be aware of.

There was plenty of deeper characterization going on in this book. It simply just didn’t involve Selene.

[Saithor]

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! *takes breath* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

For real, though... After such a shining glorious Selene having her best moment in YEARS, then she gets... well... this.

Rachel and Magma are going to be disappointed.

They should have already been disappointed since you know, she got her ass handed to her by the Upstarts all the way back in the nineties