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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Gold right here.



    I have to say, I'm enjoying that this issue has prompted such conversation. It was a controversial issue and I'm here for it.
    I swear a human could attempt to kill Apocalypse for trying to kill the world population one time and this forum would call it controversial.

    Seriously, Selene's entire characterization, even from the beginning, has been of someone who as an immortal who got worshipped by cavemen back in the day never grew out of what is at best early adolescence. Emma is there for your Girlboss fix right over there, and Selene is a petulant child who quite literally threw a temper tantrum when she didn't get what she wanted. Her running off to a bunch of mutant haters to lend them some magic muscle is entirely in character for someone that petty.

    Oh, and as for the entire "Why can't Selene be on the council while Sinister is" I have been saying Sinister should never have been on the council, in and out of universe, for years at this point. Where's my medal?

  2. #62
    Mighty Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    this is about what i expected by not how i expected it.

    Hope was completely regressed in one issue and is completely different than the Hope we have seen who has been the champion of pure resurrections: girl bye.
    “Pure Resurrections”? The hell does that mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Gillien even had Selene say why doesn't she have a place and as noted she offered more for the community with feedings alone but not only that they do still need defense but sinister who is unneeded is just splashing around his latest chimeras and his theft and abuse of the dna of other mutants and he gets a "heeeeeeey bro, are you going to create a problem more than your trying to fix." Xavier in this is a hypocrite, lame in mind, and a sexist for the way he chastised Selene when Sinister been around doing the most from day one.
    While I agree that having Sinister in power is not smart on their part at all, I heavily disagree in calling Xavier a hypocrite for not putting Selene on the counsel with Sinister there.

    Selene lost her vote fair and square. Sinister was given his seat prior. Xavier doesn’t know what Sinister is doing behind the scenes to accuse him of anything. He can at best be suspicious, but he can’t pin point what Sinister is doing as illegal and assume the worst without justifiable cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    The story felt force. Hope is the light of the mutant empire it's messiah, nah, Exodus Messiah's don't mind-rape those they bring back to drag them into submission.
    Hope Summers isn’t a morally white character. She never has been. She is lauded as a hero by the public, but that doesn’t mean she automatically upholds every high moral value.

    Hope has always been a soldier and survivor first and foremost and that always meant doing whatever necessary to come out alive. That is Hope’s character, which is why your rant here sounds ridiculous.



    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    The whole story was from her point of view well mostly so i guess this was her issue but when she talked about she chose to lead and stuff i was like "what the f#(# is she talking about. Did we literally just ignore all the story and pick up where we left off with the five lights." I mean it wasn't a badly written story but it was a badly plotted one and it definitel was heaped in bias which made the plot feel even more unnatural. The art was nice though. The magneto/storm team up was cool i am even more okay with her not getting a stand alone issue now. lol. There was no real longterm story here though this is just exploring the dark stuff the council does so it is what it was pimped to be but it's not an even tilled book at all.

    Welp at least i can say i gave it a try. I'm out on this one.

    Ladies and genetleman your council hero and your altruistic queen of resurrections. lol
    You are throwing the word biased at this issue rather freely for having a biased perception yourself. You aren’t looking at all from the other sides perception and are only speaking of Selene’s side as if Selene was ever in the right for her actions. She wasn’t and, frankly, everything that came to her was deserved because at the end of the day, you don’t go attacking a nation as a temper tantrum.

    Gillen’s Hope is the most in-character Hope has ever been in this era. Hope is not the type to fall on the sidelines on a big battle, yet she is always sidelined for her importance as a member of the Five. Hope would not have stood for that back then and she would not have left her gun at home like this issue pronounces. She is Cable’s daughter, yet you are having issue with Hope all of a sudden no longer being a passive player because Selene happens to be the antagonist.





    You are welcome to your own opinions about the characters, but your analysis tells me you didn’t give this story a chance at all and shut down the second you saw that they weren’t negotiating with Selene.
    Last edited by PyroFN; 05-18-2022 at 11:33 AM.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member Exodus's Avatar
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    It is kinda sad how female villains are treated in those books. Moira, Selene, Madelyne...it is time for a new Sisterhood!!!

    But I guess some author tries to make Hope a bad-ass character to root for...good luck with that.

  4. #64
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    In one issue, Gillen made me like Hope more than in the entirety of his Generation Hope run.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saithor View Post
    I swear a human could attempt to kill Apocalypse for trying to kill the world population one time and this forum would call it controversial.

    Seriously, Selene's entire characterization, even from the beginning, has been of someone who as an immortal who got worshipped by cavemen back in the day never grew out of what is at best early adolescence. Emma is there for your Girlboss fix right over there, and Selene is a petulant child who quite literally threw a temper tantrum when she didn't get what she wanted. Her running off to a bunch of mutant haters to lend them some magic muscle is entirely in character for someone that petty.

    Oh, and as for the entire "Why can't Selene be on the council while Sinister is" I have been saying Sinister should never have been on the council, in and out of universe, for years at this point. Where's my medal?
    No? I'd honestly quite like that as a motivation for trying to kill villains. It'd give the characters more complexity and would be really interesting! A human that doesn't hate ALL mutants but does want to purge most of the mutants who have red in their cup (which is a good amount, don't get me wrong... and potentially many or most X-Men). Basically Leper Queen but less insane.

    As for Selene, her concept is simple but there is fun in that simplicity. You don't have to be the most complex villain to be engaging or entertaining. Selene fulfills that niche of a unrepentant villain who has major power. We should love to hate her, but that's not gonna happen if you never build her up as a competent villain. Emma, Mystique and Destiny all serve completely different niches in terms of what they bring to the X-Men and the Quiet Council.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyroFN View Post
    Hope Summers isn’t a morally white character. She never has been. She is lauded as a hero by the public, but that doesn’t mean she automatically upholds every high moral value.

    Hope has always been a soldier and survivor first and foremost and that always meant doing whatever necessary to come out alive. That is Hope’s character, which is why your rant here sounds ridiculous.



    You are throwing the word biased at this issue rather freely for having a biased perception yourself. You aren’t looking at all from the other sides perception and are only speaking of Selene’s side as if Selene was ever in the right for her actions. She wasn’t and, frankly, everything that came to her was deserved because at the end of the day, you don’t go attacking a nation as a temper tantrum.

    Gillen’s Hope is the most in-character Hope has ever been in this era. Hope is not the type to fall on the sidelines on a big battle, yet she is always sidelined for her importance as a member of the Five. Hope would not have stood for that back then and she would not have left her gun at home like this issue pronounces. She is Cable’s daughter, yet you are having issue with Hope all of a sudden no longer being a passive player because Selene happens to be the antagonist.





    You are welcome to your own opinions about the characters, but your analysis tells me you didn’t give this story a chance at all and shut down the second you saw that they weren’t negotiating with Selene.
    Those are some great Hope panels. Thank you for sharing... and for dropping knowledge here.
    “Not as good as I once was… but I’m as good, once, as I ever was.”

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Ikr? People griping like she's Mother Teresa. It's not like she's expunged from the resurrection records. She thought a tantrum would help her cause ..well wrong idea
    She doesn’t need the resurrection records to be expunged. No magical threat is every eliminated this easily.

  8. #68
    Julian Keller Supremacy Rift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Please see Hellions, X-men #11, and Immortal #1, X-corp, House of X, Powers of X. Sorry it just doesn't fly this about face with selene was literally created in issue one to justify this. And Xavier has most of that information. To me it came off looking like once again a woman who basically did the same thing a man did was put in her place by having her agency robbed and her neck snapped. That's just the optics for me and hope was more than happy to do it. Leave her dead, exile her to the pit but to basically admit she was too big of a threat for you to handle and to do what was done because of that was just not a good look for me and it didn't read well to me or inspirational at all and it definitely did hope and the council no favors. No one else on the council knew of this? Where was the rest of the five? The other people for resurrections? They disappeared just as conveniently as hope decided not to explain the momentum of her teleports.
    He was mostly thwarted in Hellions, and Emma was spying on him so she could stop his shenanigans because she knew not to trust him. The Council would gladly get rid of them if they could, but right now he's too useful/hard to get rid of. There's no preferential treatment here. Selene and Sinister are similar, but their circumstances are very different.

    Also note that the Council actually considered giving into Selene's demands before Destiny had her vision.
    2024: The Year of Hellion

  9. #69
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    Thank you, I also love Hope's voice in this book. I want her and Exodus to lead a team of Acolytes together, maybe with Transonic, Zero, Velocidad and Primal as members.

  10. #70
    Mighty Member PyroFN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rift View Post
    In Sinister's defense, it's much harder to get rid of him. He has the DNA they need, and a bajillion clones of himself. On top of that, he now has time travel powers to keep himself ahead of the pack. If the Council was able to get rid of him, they absolutely would. As it stands, they let him get beaten up and have openly mocked him. And unlike Selene, his stunts were easily neutralized or didn't have a big impact. (Chimeras will be an issue down the line, but they're not inherently bad. In fact, they can be a major asset.)

    On top of endangering Krakoans, Selene's stunt threatened to destroy their very precious Gateway system. She allied with Coven Akkaba, their enemies. It was pretty much impossible to stop her without killing her. They still plan on bringing her back.
    This.

    Not to mention the fact that a lot of what Sinister has been up to are things the Council still doesn’t know about. They at best know of Sinister’s plans in Hellions. They still aren’t aware of most of the crap Sinister has been doing outside of Hellions and none of what Sinister did in Hellions is expressly against the laws of Krakoa. By all accounts, Sinister has more reason to escape notice.

    But I guess there is nothing more subtle than attacking an island nation.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    It is kinda sad how female villains are treated in those books. Moira, Selene, Madelyne...it is time for a new Sisterhood!!!

    But I guess some author tries to make Hope a bad-ass character to root for...good luck with that.
    Hope Summers > Rachel Summers

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rift View Post
    It'd be pretty based of that Earl Grey line comes into play, and they actually sacrifice an earl to bring it back. Selene wasn't just joking or being horngry. She was lining up a sacrifice for the ritual.
    I think so too or why else would she go to Cove Ahkaba to begin with. She doesn’t need the resurrection protocols to come back when she made a deal with a bunch of sorcerers who freed Morgan Le Fay from Apocalypse and Jamie Maddox. An angry Selene is asset for them and as Destiny indicates time and space are broken. Selene WON!

    Some people can’t understand strategy or deception.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    She doesn’t need the resurrection records to be expunged. No magical threat is every eliminated this easily.
    Oh I know, If Arkea could bring her de-materialized self back definitely magic can do so as well. I'm just saying the reaction is as over the top as her own tantrum.

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member ChronoRogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    I think so too or why else would she go to Cove Ahkaba to begin with. She doesn’t need the resurrection protocols to come back when she made a deal with a bunch of sorcerers who freed Morgan Le Fay from Apocalypse and Jamie Maddox. An angry Selene is asset for them and as Destiny indicates time and space are broken. Selene WON!

    Some people can’t understand strategy or deception.
    That sounds like copium, but doesn't erase the disrespect that Selene basically put herself through if true.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    It is kinda sad how female villains are treated in those books. Moira, Selene, Madelyne...it is time for a new Sisterhood!!!

    But I guess some author tries to make Hope a bad-ass character to root for...good luck with that.
    The same Madelyne who is going to take over Limbo?


    She was not treated poorly due to her sex when Krakoans get killed and resurrected all time time.

    Selene? She’s not defeated. No magical threat is ever defeated that easily.

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