So Is journey into mystery 83 or Venus 12 first Thor in marvel comics?

[Gaastra]

Some say it's journey into mystery 83 but thor and loki was in venus 12 a canon marvel book before it? They don't look or act like the later versions but even marvel changed it to their first comic then changed it back later in handbooks.

So what is thors first appearance? You could say venus was a prototype but again it's a canon book. So what do you guys think?



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[Reviresco]

Some say it's journey into mystery 83 but thor and loki was in venus 12 a canon marvel book before it? They don't look or act like the later versions but even marvel changed it to their first comic then changed it back later in handbooks.

So what is thors first appearance? You could say venus was a prototype but again it's a canon book. So what do you guys think?



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What do you mean canon? The Golden Age / Atlas books aren't in MU continuity, except as comic books.

[Iron Maiden]

I'd be skeptical of that also. Thor is part of Norse mythology and could have been used just about anywhere.

[Gaastra]

What do you mean canon? The Golden Age / Atlas books aren't in MU continuity, except as comic books.

Venus is a comic isn't it? Confused. She shows up later in canon stories also.

[Digifiend]

Wartime stories were propaganda, and we in the real world saw those versions, not what really happened. It's how they explained the 1945 onwards appearances of Captain America and Bucky after Avengers #4 brought Cap back and said he'd been frozen in 1945. Other people had taken on the identities, but the comics still called them Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes so as not to reveal that they were believed dead.

[Oberon]

Some may realize that certain characters, like Venus, or essentially the Invaders and its cast, transcended the more non-canon books themselves. That is how I look at it.

Someone did this with Circe/Sersi from the old Strange Tales/Torch story, which is not Golden Age, Silver, but 'canon'. I think the conclusion is Torch's Circe/reference is not Sersi of the Eternals. I could be misremembering.

[Reviresco]

Venus is a comic isn't it? Confused. She shows up later in canon stories also.

Any comic before FF#1 isn't necessarily "in continuity." The Golden Age and Atlas books are considered comics that were published in the 616. You can find panels of various characters reading these Golden Age comics in several comics, starting with FF#4, where Johnny Storm is reading Golden Age Sub-Mariner comics. Events in these comics may or may not have actually "occurred" in the 616 continuity -- and if do, they are usually highly fictionalized. They don't occur in the 616 continuity until a post FF#1 writer actually includes the 'true' version in a comic.


Here's how Roy Thomas explained it in a letters column:

Interesting response in regards to how The Invaders is treated in relation to Marvel's Golden Age stories and how they may affect current Marvel continuity (The Invaders #36, January 1979).

[Digifiend]

First new World War Two superhero mag since 1945... heh that's true, the Justice Society were only appearing in JLA team-ups back then, they didn't have their own title, set in the war or not. I wonder if it was the Invaders who inspired DC to use the JSA more? It would be a bit of tit for tat, considering that Aquaman started as a copycat of Namor, but the JLA's launch is one of the reasons the Fantastic Four was created. DC and Marvel have always copied each other!

[Ultimate Captain America]

There's also the case of Hercules, who first appears as adisposable minion of Immortus to fight Thor for a couple scenes, and with no similarity to the character as it would be properly introduced later. This was eventually retconned as Immortus using Space Phantoms to take those identities.