Velma (gory Scooby-doo HBO Max show)

[John Venus]

Mindy was the one who fired the first shot. In cases like this the creatives attacking the fanbase is what leads to projects like this failing.

People are going to attack the show anyway for having a non white Velma.

Anyway, if this show fails it won't be because Velma is Indian American and more to do with writing and execution.

There are valid criticisms to be made about the show but I don't think changing Velma's race is one of them.

For me, I don't mind mixing up the formula I remember watching Scooby Doo cartoons from the era where it was just Daphne, Shaggy, Scooby and Scrappy and 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo. But if all this show has to offer are gore, nudity, swearing and Harley Quinn style humor as it's selling points then it's a pass for me.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Mindy was the one who fired the first shot. In cases like this the creatives attacking the fanbase is what leads to projects like this failing.

Indeed. If you're going to reboot a beloved cartoon classic to this degree, having the fanbase on your side would be a darn good idea.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

My reaction is something like this




No thanks, I'd rather keep things more in the children cartoon level of things, the first live action movie is bad enough, and this sounds even worse.

[babyblob]

It seems even in the older days when they moved a bit from the main Scooby Doo with the spins offs Like the one with just Shaggy, Scrappy, Daphne, and Scooby. or the movies with just Scooby, Shaggy, and Scrappy like Scooby Doo Meets the Boo Brothers (Loved that one) or Scooby-Doo and the Reluctant Werewolf they kept the light hearted and zaniness of the show. You could watch them and say "Oh these are still a bit goofy and fun" Even if they wernt the best of shows.

I am not sure who is really wanting the adult version of Scooby Doo like this. Even more so if the whole gang is not there.

It would be cool to see a Velma origin show where we learn why she is so into mysteries and down the road how she met the gang. To me this is just the wrong way to do it. it seems like Edge and Gore just for the sake of edge and Gore.

I saw that adultish darker Youtube fan show. Im not really even into that live action show. I am over the adult darker takes.

[Vakanai]

Velma more or less looks like Velma still, race change and blobby shaped art style aside.
But the style and tone and everything else just doesn't feel like a Scooby Doo property. Like, I'm not against a "Scooby for adults series" that goes into more mature territory, but this doesn't look or sound like it has anything to do with Scooby beyond a character sort of looking like and sharing the name Velma. I think that this will bomb, and I don't think it'll have anything to do with race and racism. I know my interest kind of plummeted with this picture.

[Immortal Weapon]

How to we know that? (Also worth considering if you're ticking off the racists, you're probably doing something right in the first place.)

She said that she doesn't care if anyone didn't like any of the radical changes she was making. That's a shot. If this ends up flopping because not enough people cared then that's on her and no one else.

People are going to attack the show anyway for having a non white Velma.

Anyway, if this show fails it won't be because Velma is Indian American and more to do with writing and execution.

There are valid criticisms to be made about the show but I don't think changing Velma's race is one of them.

For me, I don't mind mixing up the formula I remember watching Scooby Doo cartoons from the era where it was just Daphne, Shaggy, Scooby and Scrappy and 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo. But if all this show has to offer are gore, nudity, swearing and Harley Quinn style humor as it's selling points then it's a pass for me.

Velma been non-white before. She was Japanese in the 2009 & 2010 live action film and a Latina in Scoob. There wasn't any uproar for those. What I see is someone who took Velma and turned her into a self insert and that's a massive turn off for me. I want Velma not Mindy in the universe of Scooby Doo.

[WebLurker]

I don't think it's a non-issue, but at the same time, I don't think it's the issue that other people probabaly think it is.

My issue is that they changed the design of the character and made them into something they weren't before. It's not all that different than if Fred showed up and he was fat and wore and eyepatch or if Shaggy had short black hair.

It's not the first time the character's ethnicity has been changed and, in any event, she still looks recognizable. It remains to be seen if the writing is consistent with previous characterizations or something new, but, even then, changing the character's personality would be in line with the franchise (Daphne is pretty much a different character in various TV shows).

She said that she doesn't care if anyone didn't like any of the radical changes she was making. That's a shot. If this ends up flopping because not enough people cared then that's on her and no one else.

Blunt, but I think that was the best response she could give; ignore the haters who won't give it a chance (eps. when it's just bigotry) and focus on making the product. (Bear in mind that I'm saying this as someone who thinks a crass Scooby-Doo cartoon is a mistake.)

Velma been non-white before. She was Japanese in the 2009 & 2010 live action film and a Latina in Scoob. There wasn't any uproar for those. What I see is someone who took Velma and turned her into a self insert and that's a massive turn off for me. I want Velma not Mindy in the universe of Scooby Doo.

How do we know it's going to be a "self-insert" when the show hasn't even aired yet?

[Immortal Weapon]

Blunt, but I think that was the best response she could give; ignore the haters who won't give it a chance (eps. when it's just bigotry) and focus on making the product. (Bear in mind that I'm saying this as someone who thinks a crass Scooby-Doo cartoon is a mistake.)

Disagree. When dealing with a franchise with a pre-existing fanbase the first order of business should be to win them over. They will be the first to be interested and get the ball rolling on building momentum. Going on the defensive on the first go she shot herself in the foot. I haven't seen a project that's become successful by using that playbook

[Frontier]

I also felt like it was missing the forest for the trees because peoples' takeaway was more the explicit content than whatever Velma's race was.

(Actually come to think of it I think she's the one member of the Gang that always gets race-bent).

[Jackalope89]

It seems even in the older days when they moved a bit from the main Scooby Doo with the spins offs Like the one with just Shaggy, Scrappy, Daphne, and Scooby. or the movies with just Scooby, Shaggy, and Scrappy like Scooby Doo Meets the Boo Brothers (Loved that one) or Scooby-Doo and the Reluctant Werewolf they kept the light hearted and zaniness of the show. You could watch them and say "Oh these are still a bit goofy and fun" Even if they wernt the best of shows.

I am not sure who is really wanting the adult version of Scooby Doo like this. Even more so if the whole gang is not there.

It would be cool to see a Velma origin show where we learn why she is so into mysteries and down the road how she met the gang. To me this is just the wrong way to do it. it seems like Edge and Gore just for the sake of edge and Gore.

I saw that adultish darker Youtube fan show. Im not really even into that live action show. I am over the adult darker takes.

Was wondering if anyone else on here had watched that. Not saying its the best thing there (no talking Scooby? I am appalled!), but even with the "dark elements", its more tasteful in one hour long episode than the still that this animated almost Family Guy-style looking series presented. And the live action one is tackling the 13 Ghosts while the gang is in high school and not yet all connected.

[babyblob]

Was wondering if anyone else on here had watched that. Not saying its the best thing there (no talking Scooby? I am appalled!), but even with the "dark elements", its more tasteful in one hour long episode than the still that this animated almost Family Guy-style looking series presented. And the live action one is tackling the 13 Ghosts while the gang is in high school and not yet all connected.

The Youtube one is kind like an Origin Story on how they got together. And there is not the gore that the animated one seems to have. The Animated one here just seems like edge for the sake of edge. Now to be fair I havnt seen it so I do not know how it will be. But that is very much the vibe I am getting.

[WebLurker]

Disagree. When dealing with a franchise with a pre-existing fanbase the first order of business should be to win them over. They will be the first to be interested and get the ball rolling on building momentum. Going on the defensive on the first go she shot herself in the foot. I haven't seen a project that's become successful by using that playbook

The fanbase is always smaller than the general audience and you need more than the former for success.

Quite frankly, the racists are the last people anyone involved should be listening to, which was what Kaling was saying she didn't care about. So far as I can tell, unless you know where the receipts are, the racist backlash came first and she responded to that. That seems to be the only thing she's commented on (beyond that she's happy to be working on the project and loves the character), so I don't see how her being dismissive of people unhappy that Velma is once again not white translates to attacking the fanbase as a whole.

Look, my hangup with the series as presented is the graphic nature of it and skepticism that an adult Scooby-Doo show is a good idea and I've found very little discussion on the subject, given how the back and forth over Velma's race is dominating the conversation as a whole.

Also, so far as franchises that succeeded while not putting up with toxic fans, Star Trek and Star Wars come to mind (consider how Last Jedi was a critical and commercial success and had a director not afraid to push back on social media).

[thwhtGuardian]

The fanbase is always smaller than the general audience and you need more than the former for success.

Quite frankly, the racists are the last people anyone involved should be listening to, which was what Kaling was saying she didn't care about. So far as I can tell, unless you know where the receipts are, the racist backlash came first and she responded to that. That seems to be the only thing she's commented on (beyond that she's happy to be working on the project and loves the character), so I don't see how her being dismissive of people unhappy that Velma is once again not white translates to attacking the fanbase as a whole.

Look, my hangup with the series as presented is the graphic nature of it and skepticism that an adult Scooby-Doo show is a good idea and I've found very little discussion on the subject, given how the back and forth over Velma's race is dominating the conversation as a whole.

Also, so far as franchises that succeeded while not putting up with toxic fans, Star Trek and Star Wars come to mind (consider how Last Jedi was a critical and commercial success and had a director not afraid to push back on social media).

Yeah, fans of scooby doo(especially fans of scooby doo who are racists) is a much smaller group than the general audience.

[Immortal Weapon]

The fanbase is always smaller than the general audience and you need more than the former for success.

Quite frankly, the racists are the last people anyone involved should be listening to, which was what Kaling was saying she didn't care about. So far as I can tell, unless you know where the receipts are, the racist backlash came first and she responded to that. That seems to be the only thing she's commented on (beyond that she's happy to be working on the project and loves the character), so I don't see how her being dismissive of people unhappy that Velma is once again not white translates to attacking the fanbase as a whole.

Look, my hangup with the series as presented is the graphic nature of it and skepticism that an adult Scooby-Doo show is a good idea and I've found very little discussion on the subject, given how the back and forth over Velma's race is dominating the conversation as a whole.

Also, so far as franchises that succeeded while not putting up with toxic fans, Star Trek and Star Wars come to mind (consider how Last Jedi was a critical and commercial success and had a director not afraid to push back on social media).

This is not for a general audience. Taking a family family franchise and making a bloody and gorier reboot of it is the oppose of general audience. That has a specific target.

I would dispute Star Wars being a success story considering the state of the series. We are suppose to get a new Star Wars every year but the movies have been put on ice. The merch based on the sequel movies collected dust on shelves and Disney as a whole is avoiding touching sequel timeline with their newer material. The Mandalorian dominates the brand now and that's because that's what the fans actually like.

[thwhtGuardian]

This is not for a general audience. Taking a family family franchise and making a bloody and gorier reboot of it is the oppose of general audience. That has a specific target.

I would dispute Star Wars being a success story considering the state of the series. We are suppose to get a new Star Wars every year but the movies have been put on ice. The merch based on the sequel movies collected dust on shelves and Disney as a whole is avoiding touching sequel timeline with their newer material. The Mandalorian dominates the brand now and that's because that's what the fans actually like.

It very much is for the general audience, or atleast the general audience of HBO Max.