Campy Villians vs Serious Villians

[godisawesome]

Serious villains are easier to use for "plug and play" stories where the main hero doesn't have to dominate the story since the villain can define a great conflict, while campy villains tend to encourage more personality from the heroes because the conflict usually isn't that strong. And of course, in comics there's actually plenty who kind are "both"; Dini's version of Joker is firmly more funny than most other variations on him in modern comics while still being terrifying, and the Flash's Rogues Gallery is kind of a glorious combo of campy and serious.

[marhawkman]

Serious villains are easier to use for "plug and play" stories where the main hero doesn't have to dominate the story since the villain can define a great conflict, while campy villains tend to encourage more personality from the heroes because the conflict usually isn't that strong. And of course, in comics there's actually plenty who kind are "both"; Dini's version of Joker is firmly more funny than most other variations on him in modern comics while still being terrifying, and the Flash's Rogues Gallery is kind of a glorious combo of campy and serious.

Then there's how some villains are... semi-serious in that they're really trying to ruin the hero's day, but... would never kill someone to do it, and so on. The villain is a threat, but.... it's not a fight to the death.

In the case of Livewire this seemingly puts her into the grey area of "not a real villain" and in more than one continuity she ended up joining team Superman.

[phonogram12]

It doesn't seem as if there's much room for campy villains these days, which is unfortunate. Everyone seems to be either a serial killer or world conqueror, lately (of some variation). That said, as much as I like Bookworm, Marsha Queen of Diamonds, and Egghead from the old Batman '66 show, I really don't feel as if they'd fit into modern day Batman stories. In my perfect multiverse, though, they would all be living well in a Dick Sprang inspired universe and a Batman '66 universe (where the Neil Gaiman Riddler from that one Secret Origins story would be thriving).

[PCN24454]

The truest, biggest, most threatening, and dastardly evil villain of all time...!

Condiment King! His vile weapons are guaranteed to leave incredibly tough stains and flavor up your hotdogs and burgers!!

This is honestly what annoys me. Condiment King is one of the most tragic villains in the Batman mythos and all people see him as a joke. He’s an extremely serious villain that just doesn’t get any respect.

[Alan2099]

It doesn't seem as if there's much room for campy villains these days, which is unfortunate. Everyone seems to be either a serial killer or world conqueror, lately (of some variation).

That's because it's a lot harder to get a decompressed six issue story-line out of the Penny Plunderer than it is to get six issues out of Imperiex Destroyer of Galaxies.

[marhawkman]

That's because it's a lot harder to get a decompressed six issue story-line out of the Penny Plunderer than it is to get six issues out of Imperiex Destroyer of Galaxies.

Or do slice of life with Leslie Willis doing um, stuff, and Clark Kent having to do actual investigative work to figure out what, if anything she's doing wrong.

[Jim Kelly]

Everyone seems to be either a serial killer or world conqueror, lately (of some variation). That said, as much as I like Bookworm, Marsha Queen of Diamonds, and Egghead from the old Batman '66 show, I really don't feel as if they'd fit into modern day Batman stories.

I think they could easily be played as serious characters. There's nothing about them that's intrinsically ludicrous. Egghead has a big bald head but so does Hector Hammond. However, I'm not sure I'd want to see that done to them.

The Riddler in THE BATMAN movie is so hyperbolic; he's much less grounded than the Riddler in the T.V. show.

Just picture Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool and the kind of wisecracks he could make about the overly serious Bat-villains. They're so inflated, they need someone to pop their balloon.

[Lukmendes]

Great example. I was actually reminded of Mr. Mxyxptlk watching "Everything Everywhere All at Once". Absurd reality-bending elements full of vulgarity that serve to tell a character-based story.

Man I'm hearing a lot about this movie, maybe I should watch it.

I want a mix of both.

Although these days I lean towards villains who are campy but effective as antagonists. Give me Sportsmaster in colourful attire and winning attitude but can still kick everyone's ass.

He's half of that in YJ weirdly enough.

He is taken more serious than he should, but at least once there was a situation he used the "Sportsmaster" part of his name and threw a hockey disc at Flash lol.

I think it had a bomb in it, but Flash's reaction to it was "Really?" lol.

The truest, biggest, most threatening, and dastardly evil villain of all time...!

Condiment King! His vile weapons are guaranteed to leave incredibly tough stains and flavor up your hotdogs and burgers!!

He might even throw a condiment you don't really like in your hamburger, the monster...

This is honestly what annoys me. Condiment King is one of the most tragic villains in the Batman mythos and all people see him as a joke. He’s an extremely serious villain that just doesn’t get any respect.

The name does him no favors lol.

[Frontier]

He's half of that in YJ weirdly enough.

He is taken more serious than he should, but at least once there was a situation he used the "Sportsmaster" part of his name and threw a hockey disc at Flash lol.

I think it had a bomb in it, but Flash's reaction to it was "Really?" lol..

I think they took a similar stance on Sportsmaster in the Stargirl show.

[PCN24454]

If campy and serious were really opposites, none of Batman’s villains could be taken seriously. Most of the people that don’t typically aren’t superhero fans to begin with.

[phonogram12]

I think they could easily be played as serious characters. There's nothing about them that's intrinsically ludicrous. Egghead has a big bald head but so does Hector Hammond. However, I'm not sure I'd want to see that done to them.

Honestly? I think they'd probably be played off as joke villains or has beens, unfortunately. Which is why I'd rather insert them in a world where we'd know they thrive instead.

Just picture Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool and the kind of wisecracks he could make about the overly serious Bat-villains. They're so inflated, they need someone to pop their balloon.

Yeah, the thing about Deadpool, though, he still has that cool, gun-toting (although this may not be as cool today as it was the day before yesterday), almost not safe for work quality about him. Is this really something we'd want to see from Egghead?

...nevermind. I'm pretty sure I would. lol

[Restingvoice]

PG-13 villains
That way they can be both and there's always both
As in Indiana Jones PG-13
One hour you got cartoony fight for an antidote, the next hour hearts gets taken out of bodies

[marhawkman]

I think they took a similar stance on Sportsmaster in the Stargirl show.

In Young Justice, Sportsmaster was legit enough to be taken seriously by Deathstroke. It's a theme gimmick, not actual sports equipment... mostly.

I'm trying to remember if he had a hockey stick like the one from Running Man. Yeah, that thing was basically a polearm made of solid steel. If Sportsmaster used one he'd probably just paint it to look like a regular stick.

[Kirk Brent]

I remember reading somewhere back in the day (Comics Scene, maybe?) that B:TAS didn't do anything with Killer Moth because Timm and Dini couldn't think of a way to revamp him like they did with Mr. Freeze. To me, it's simple: he was a criminal version of Batman, complete with Moth-named paraphernalia. Make his alter ego the inverse of Bruce Wayne (rich kid who inherits the family fortune but uses it for selfish gain) and Killer Moth an "Anti-Batman." This would be similar to Wrath but far more interesting, IMO.

[Jim Kelly]

I could see Killer Moth being the main villain of the Gray Ghost. That seems right to me.

I don't think there's anything all that funny about Killer Moth as a villain--on the scale of Bat-villain codenames, his is about in the middle. When I used to fantasize about being a Batman writer, Killer Moth was one villain I wanted to revive and I had a a whole series of stories mapped out for him. Naturally, I'm not just going to give that away here--but Tiger Moth would have been his love interest. His character arc would have been tragic, yet with touches of Will Eisner-ish humour--as that's the quality of Batman I liked.