Campy Villians vs Serious Villians

[The PhantomDreamlander]

A Disscusion between DC villians who are Campy vs DC Villians who are more serious

Although serious villians can have interesting motives I have gotten to liking DC villians who are far more campy for how goofy they can be and the looks of their costumes

[williamtheday]

In real life, there are campy villains who are serious threats!

[Frontier]

Both kinds of villains work depending on the execution.

[marhawkman]

Both kinds of villains work depending on the execution.

Yeah, it's all about the story. The style of villainy is integral to the nature of the story. Livewire, for example, doesn't just... go around murdering people. She more of an annoyance that a deadly threat most of the time. It's just that she's an incredibly powerful annoyance that usually takes some super powered heroes to defeat.

[Lukmendes]

Yeah, it's all about the story. The style of villainy is integral to the nature of the story. Livewire, for example, doesn't just... go around murdering people. She more of an annoyance that a deadly threat most of the time. It's just that she's an incredibly powerful annoyance that usually takes some super powered heroes to defeat.

"Incredibly powerful annoyance" who tends to go against Supes, meaning that doesn't help her much.

It works better in DCAU with a nerfed Supes, but in the comics, I remember two separate occasions where Supes defeated her, one where he was focusing on Lois being attacked so Livewire was just a minor nuisance by comparison, and another where Supes accidentally defeated her by throwing her on water lol.

Either way, as pointed out, it depends on the story, Mr. Mxyxptlk isn't gonna be a serious threat most of the time, but he is a fun "villain" and can be used for breather stories, or just a goofy episodic story for the sake of it, having villains like that around help with flexibility of story telling, and that's hardly a bad thing if they're used properly.

[Jim Kelly]

I got this from the Urban Dictionary:

camp

1. something that provides sophisticated, knowing amusement, as by virtue of its being artlessly mannered or stylized, self-consciously artificial and extravagant, or teasingly ingenuous and sentimental.

2. a person who adopts a teasing, theatrical manner, esp. for the amusement of others.

3. An affectation or appreciation of manners and tastes commonly thought to be artificial, vulgar, or banal.

4. Banality, vulgarity, or artificiality when deliberately affected or when appreciated for its humor: "Camp is popularity plus vulgarity plus innocence"
adj. Having deliberately artificial, vulgar, banal, or affectedly humorous qualities or style: played up the silliness of their roles for camp effect.

[PCN24454]

A Disscusion between DC villians who are Campy vs DC Villians who are more serious

Although serious villians can have interesting motives I have gotten to liking DC villians who are far more campy for how goofy they can be and the looks of their costumes

You say this as though they have to be one or the other. It’s a false dichotomy.

If it wasn’t, Batman and Spider-Man wouldn’t be as popular as they are.

[Jim Kelly]

It's hard to know what people mean when they say something is "campy."

Going back to the 1960s, in the comic book letter columns some of the college students writing in were clearly reading the comics because they considered them camp. Everyone back then believed that comics were not a serious artform, so these young adults were picking them up with the attitude that it was all bad and worth a good laugh.

I don't think even the writers and editors felt that much different. In his books about creating Marvel Comics, Stan Lee is glib and self-mocking regarding his process. The reason he used the pen name "Stan Lee" was because he was saving his real name, Stanley Lieber, for when he became a serious writer. So it seems obvious that Stan went into comics writing with the attitude that it wasn't going to be Tolstoy. This was just something he was doing for the money, until a better thing came along.

For me, the first I heard of "camp" was in reference to the BATMAN television series. The inspiration for that series came from Hugh Hefner screening the old serials. Those 1940s serials were not meant to be funny (not on the surface at least), but that seriousness about them made them laughable. That was camp. I think the T.V. show is at its best, as camp, when the actors deliver their lines in a deadpan fashion. When the actors ham it up and make it too obvious that they are deliberately being funny, then the show goes over the line from camp into slapstick.

So the key to camp is that it has to be played in a serious fashion. That's why the Marvel Comics of the 1960s and 1970s seem much more camp to me than the Distinguishd Competition's output. Stan and his acolytes are writing in this affected manner of mock-seriousness. On one level it seems like everything is important but the hyperbolic nature of the language has the opposite effect. The writer isn't really taking it seriously at all and that's why he's using such purple prose.

This is why, as a kid, I had a hard time getting into the Marvel Comics Group and preferred the stuff from National Periodicals (except when they were trying to copy Marvel). I felt like Stan and his pals were just trying to get something over on me and that if I bought those comics I was being played for a fool. Sure, a lot of what National published was downright silly, but they weren't overselling the seriousness of their comics.

So the bottom line is that what's serious and what's camp is not so easily determined. It's probably just a matter of perception. The more serious that comics try to be, the more they leave themselves open to a camp interpretation. Nowadays, the comics that try so hard to present themselves as important subject matter can become bathetic in that attempt. The Joker, given all these treatises on his allegorical significance yadda yadda, he's much more camp now than when Cesar Romero played him.

[Jackalope89]

The truest, biggest, most threatening, and dastardly evil villain of all time...!

Condiment King! His vile weapons are guaranteed to leave incredibly tough stains and flavor up your hotdogs and burgers!!

[godisawesome]

Serious villains are easier to use for "plug and play" stories where the main hero doesn't have to dominate the story since the villain can define a great conflict, while campy villains tend to encourage more personality from the heroes because the conflict usually isn't that strong. And of course, in comics there's actually plenty who kind are "both"; Dini's version of Joker is firmly more funny than most other variations on him in modern comics while still being terrifying, and the Flash's Rogues Gallery is kind of a glorious combo of campy and serious.

[marhawkman]

Serious villains are easier to use for "plug and play" stories where the main hero doesn't have to dominate the story since the villain can define a great conflict, while campy villains tend to encourage more personality from the heroes because the conflict usually isn't that strong. And of course, in comics there's actually plenty who kind are "both"; Dini's version of Joker is firmly more funny than most other variations on him in modern comics while still being terrifying, and the Flash's Rogues Gallery is kind of a glorious combo of campy and serious.

Then there's how some villains are... semi-serious in that they're really trying to ruin the hero's day, but... would never kill someone to do it, and so on. The villain is a threat, but.... it's not a fight to the death.

In the case of Livewire this seemingly puts her into the grey area of "not a real villain" and in more than one continuity she ended up joining team Superman.

[PCN24454]

The truest, biggest, most threatening, and dastardly evil villain of all time...!

Condiment King! His vile weapons are guaranteed to leave incredibly tough stains and flavor up your hotdogs and burgers!!

This is honestly what annoys me. Condiment King is one of the most tragic villains in the Batman mythos and all people see him as a joke. He’s an extremely serious villain that just doesn’t get any respect.

[Lukmendes]

Great example. I was actually reminded of Mr. Mxyxptlk watching "Everything Everywhere All at Once". Absurd reality-bending elements full of vulgarity that serve to tell a character-based story.

Man I'm hearing a lot about this movie, maybe I should watch it.

I want a mix of both.

Although these days I lean towards villains who are campy but effective as antagonists. Give me Sportsmaster in colourful attire and winning attitude but can still kick everyone's ass.

He's half of that in YJ weirdly enough.

He is taken more serious than he should, but at least once there was a situation he used the "Sportsmaster" part of his name and threw a hockey disc at Flash lol.

I think it had a bomb in it, but Flash's reaction to it was "Really?" lol.

The truest, biggest, most threatening, and dastardly evil villain of all time...!

Condiment King! His vile weapons are guaranteed to leave incredibly tough stains and flavor up your hotdogs and burgers!!

He might even throw a condiment you don't really like in your hamburger, the monster...

This is honestly what annoys me. Condiment King is one of the most tragic villains in the Batman mythos and all people see him as a joke. He’s an extremely serious villain that just doesn’t get any respect.

The name does him no favors lol.

[Restingvoice]

PG-13 villains
That way they can be both and there's always both
As in Indiana Jones PG-13
One hour you got cartoony fight for an antidote, the next hour hearts gets taken out of bodies