Continuity Cops! Has "Everything Happened" been a success or failure for you?

[Dataweaver]

While the original, and most straightforward, interpretation of the end of Convergence was that after the convergence team disrupted the crisis, the surviving worlds became the current multiverse, I choose to interpret it a little more abstractly: I take it as an indication that while the original worlds still exist, they were not unchanged. It's in accordance with a principal that I hold, that the older a story is, the less reliable the details are. So the boat May well have happened; but it probably didn't happen precisely in the same way. Little things like “quiet, or papa spank” are unlikely to remain true, even if the main story beats do.

More generally, my take on “Everything Happened” is that you shouldn't take it too literally; they mean that the overall story of the Metaverse all happened, not that literally every story ever published in the Metaverse really happened. There are some stinkers that I'm sure even the most ardent supporter of the concept would have no problem excising, such as the Bronze Age story where Superboy became Superman by sleeping with a girl who was being mind-controlled. (There was a waiter on Superman around that time who was rather misogynistic.)

[marhawkman]

Adding branching timelines in addition to alternative universes just makes things way too confusing. The Multiverse explanation is simple enough if DC used it right. No need to add another layer of confusion.
Readers will be lost trying to understand if Story X happens in a separate timeline or a separate Earth. Which is needlessly confusing because the separate Earth explanation already takes care of everything.
Just make it so that out there in the infinite Omniverse every continuity DC has ever published has its own place to exist. No need to say X Continuity is an alternate Earth while Y Continuity is a different timeline created by Hypertime. Lol

I only see it as being too complicated if you feel you NEED to pay attention to ALL of them all the time.... which no story ever does.

Well… it's not either/or. You can have an Earth-0 with a history that fits as much in as possible, and branching timelines that cover what Earth-0 can't.

I get that, but that's sort of just moving the main timeline from Earth-1 to Earth-0.

[Jon Clark]

Actually, the ability to merge timelines back together wasn't there to explain minor continuity gaffs; it was there to provide a way to reintroduce large chunks of previously abandoned continuity. In the original Hypertime framework, Talia showing up with Damian in tow could be considered to be the result of a “timeline merger”: it had been stated repeatedly that the story in which Damian was conceived was no longer canon; and yet, here he was. At the very least, something resembling that story was back in continuity.

Which is something that writers would love to be able to do, but that continuity buffs hate with a passion. Because ultimately, it means that tracking continuity is ultimately pointless, as the writers can change it whenever they want.

My own view on it is that it's merely acknowledging the truth: the writers can change continuity on a whim. I don't think it's a healthy thing to do, and would prefer that it be done sparingly and with diligent consideration of the consequences. But I won't go so far as to say that it should never ever be done under any circumstances for any reason.

I can accept that "everything happened" a lot better when the disparate versions of events are treated as involving different people. We accept that Adam West's Batman is not Michael Keaton's (or Christina Bale's or Robert Pattinson's). No one has to come up with an explanation of how the Zod in Superman II connects to the one on Smallville or in Man of Steel. We accept that these characters can have internal continuity for a single movie or TV show that has no connection to other incarnations of the character.

Hypertime to me is infuriating and I'd rather the creative team just decide what continuity is and state outright when they put something in a story that really doesn't fit. If Kathy Kane was Batwoman, great. If Kate Kane was the forst recurring person called Batwoman, equally great. But if Barabara Gordon mentions meeting Kathy Kane as Batwoman this issue and then states that Kate is the only Batwoman she ever met three issues later, I'd rather have they decide going forward which is true, admit the other is an error then keep going. Putting in an explanation that a "Kathy Kane as Batwoman" timeline was crossing into or out of continuity really adds nothing but confusion about the matter.

The fun of continuity (for me) isn't being able to answer trivia questions about whether the Kents are alive, who the first person to wear a costume or use a name is, or knowing the founding members of the Justice league. It's being able to see how Clark's life unfolds based on the status of the Kents. Clark revealing his secret feels different in a history where the Kents have been dead for years than in a history where they are still living on the farm. Batman's sense of who he is (and who Robin is) changes if Thomas wore a proto-Batsuit that inspired Bruce or if Bruce wore a red/green uniform and called himself Robin during his training. The reltionship between Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman plays differently if they have been a major part of the League since day one or if Bruce/Clark were infrequent allies to the team while Diana just appeared as a hero recently.

Hypertime is being able to take the chain of events that lead from issue #1 to issue #100 and saying no matter how many of those links we remove or radically alter the actual chain is unaltered (except where we decide it doesn't stay the same).

[Restingvoice]

I only see it as being too complicated if you feel you NEED to pay attention to ALL of them all the time.... which no story ever does.

Pretty much yeah and that applies to every method they use to explain continuity

Right now only Josh Williamson using Past Memory
Only Geoff Johns is using Hypertime
The rest of the writers are just whatever
Omniverse is the only definitive one

I personally use everything to explain the inconsistency down to the last detail if someone's confused and that's because I like that there is an explanation for everything, because I'm a stickler to consistency. Before this, I used to yell in threads, keep it consistent dammit! I refused to read Rebirth when I found out they're fixing continuity in story instead of in meeting rooms.

But they don't change. DC never really change. So now that they canonize every method to make everything canon, and that lifted stress out of writer and myself, I'm just, okay, **** it, let's do this. You actually answer all my questions, so I'm using all of these concepts, whether you, DC, use it deliberately or not.

Otherwise I can't read anything from these characters I fell in love with.

[bat39]

I can accept that "everything happened" a lot better when the disparate versions of events are treated as involving different people. We accept that Adam West's Batman is not Michael Keaton's (or Christina Bale's or Robert Pattinson's). No one has to come up with an explanation of how the Zod in Superman II connects to the one on Smallville or in Man of Steel. We accept that these characters can have internal continuity for a single movie or TV show that has no connection to other incarnations of the character.

Hypertime to me is infuriating and I'd rather the creative team just decide what continuity is and state outright when they put something in a story that really doesn't fit. If Kathy Kane was Batwoman, great. If Kate Kane was the forst recurring person called Batwoman, equally great. But if Barabara Gordon mentions meeting Kathy Kane as Batwoman this issue and then states that Kate is the only Batwoman she ever met three issues later, I'd rather have they decide going forward which is true, admit the other is an error then keep going. Putting in an explanation that a "Kathy Kane as Batwoman" timeline was crossing into or out of continuity really adds nothing but confusion about the matter.

The fun of continuity (for me) isn't being able to answer trivia questions about whether the Kents are alive, who the first person to wear a costume or use a name is, or knowing the founding members of the Justice league. It's being able to see how Clark's life unfolds based on the status of the Kents. Clark revealing his secret feels different in a history where the Kents have been dead for years than in a history where they are still living on the farm. Batman's sense of who he is (and who Robin is) changes if Thomas wore a proto-Batsuit that inspired Bruce or if Bruce wore a red/green uniform and called himself Robin during his training. The reltionship between Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman plays differently if they have been a major part of the League since day one or if Bruce/Clark were infrequent allies to the team while Diana just appeared as a hero recently.

Hypertime is being able to take the chain of events that lead from issue #1 to issue #100 and saying no matter how many of those links we remove or radically alter the actual chain is unaltered (except where we decide it doesn't stay the same).

Well put!

I do believe that ''everything happened'' can work in some cases. Its easier to reconcile very different characterisations, tonalities and artistic/literary styles in the comic-book medium than in live-action - for instance, its impossible to imagine Adam West's Batman and Michael Keaton's Batman as being the same person, but its considerably less challenging to imagine the Batman from Year One as being the same character in those goofy 50's Silver Age stories (which Morrison demonstrated perfectly during his run).

But there's no point doing it if the details and plot developments that you have to merge are so fundamentally irreconcilable with each other that you need to jump through a lot of hoops to make it all fit. And claiming that it all fits because ''everyone remembers everything anyway'' is pretty much an admission that nothing fits so let's forget about continuity altogether!

[Stanlos]

I thought Hypertime said the verse where all stories happened is out there. So you could visit those verses or visit all new verses.

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

Well put!

I do believe that ''everything happened'' can work in some cases. Its easier to reconcile very different characterisations, tonalities and artistic/literary styles in the comic-book medium than in live-action - for instance, its impossible to imagine Adam West's Batman and Michael Keaton's Batman as being the same person, but its considerably less challenging to imagine the Batman from Year One as being the same character in those goofy 50's Silver Age stories (which Morrison demonstrated perfectly during his run).

the 4 90'ss batman movies are the same cannon... so before you say you can't picture that batman and adam west may I remind you of "cool party" and "Holy rusted metal batman" and the bat credicard....

[Restingvoice]

I thought Hypertime said the verse where all stories happened is out there. So you could visit those verses or visit all new verses.

Yeah. Flashpoint Beyond's one of them.

[comicstar100]

I still see things pre crisis and post crisis. I know we've had several changes since then but it's still how I see it.

[philosopop]

I feel like this was exactly what we got from Doomsday Clock with the metaverse (as the changes in the metaverse "unclick" the previous "history of the dcuniverse" into its own multiverse/omniverse and "focusing" on the new one - as was the case with the different superman origins and the lantern-shift creating the new 52)

[Kirk Brent]

Adding branching timelines in addition to alternative universes just makes things way too confusing. The Multiverse explanation is simple enough if DC used it right. No need to add another layer of confusion.
Readers will be lost trying to understand if Story X happens in a separate timeline or a separate Earth. Which is needlessly confusing because the separate Earth explanation already takes care of everything.
Just make it so that out there in the infinite Omniverse every continuity DC has ever published has its own place to exist. No need to say X Continuity is an alternate Earth while Y Continuity is a different timeline created by Hypertime. Lol

Agreed. Johns created a simple yet elegant explanation for continuity and the existence of an infinite Multiverse. Scotty Snyder (at DiDio's behest) came in, muddied the waters with his "writing," and now we have this "everyone remembers everything" nonsense. DC has never recovered from COIE and no one there seems to understand that the Multiverse model they originated (in comics) is the key to not only repairing continuity but also creating sub-lines of books targeting many different readers, including new ones.

I feel like this was exactly what we got from Doomsday Clock with the metaverse (as the changes in the metaverse "unclick" the previous "history of the dcuniverse" into its own multiverse/omniverse and "focusing" on the new one - as was the case with the different superman origins and the lantern-shift creating the new 52)

The Metaverse was a perfect solution, and Manhattan being the cause of the New 52 was icing on the cake. He's clearly a stand-in for Dan DiDio and those who can't or won't understand Superman's character and importance to the DCU.

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[krazijoe]

Continuity provides back story and right now, the backstory on almost all the titles is too convoluted.