Bringing back Earth 2 was a bad idea.

[mathew101281]

I feel that most characters that were shuttled off to earth 2 have essentially been sidelined and the one earth post Crisis universe was better for them in retrospect. It felt like the JSA and other characters were more prominent back then and now they are pretty much after thoughts. I feel that the one earth model gave characters and the DC universe a sense of history, and generational progression and depth that is lost with the multiverse model.

[Factor]

It's not like they're using the Earth-2 characters on their own Earth OR in the main universe.

[Jon Clark]

Not sure Earth-Two is to blame. The JSA were pushed off the board in the aftermath of the original Crisis. They returned in the early 90's only to be killed off in Zero Hour. They only got prominent again when guys like James Robinson and Geoff Johns got behind them.

I think now the issue is that no one has an idea how to deal with 1940's characters and their heirs in a plausible way in 2022. Do you insert a generation or more between the JSA and the Infinitors? Do you make the JSA either through a time jump or keeping dates vague simply a decade or so older than the Trinity? And whatever you choose are others going to follow? Having Flash treat Jay as having 80 years of adventures while Alan is treated as having spent half a century in Limbo isn't going to help.

[mathew101281]

It's not like they're using the Earth-2 characters on their own Earth OR in the main universe.

You’ve made my point in the post Crisis universe they were used quite a bit. There was a whole corner of the DCU dedicated to them and adjacent characters, you had JSA, Starman and even some of the Vertigo titles were JSA adjacent. Now they barely get used at all, and I feel taking them out of the main universe has kind of sidelined them. I feel modern comics publishers have a hard enough time managing one universe, alternate universes almost always get the shaft. You could also say the same with the Ultimate Universe over at marvel.

[mathew101281]

Not sure Earth-Two is to blame. The JSA were pushed off the board in the aftermath of the original Crisis. They returned in the early 90's only to be killed off in Zero Hour. They only got prominent again when guys like James Robinson and Geoff Johns got behind them.

I think now the issue is that no one has an idea how to deal with 1940's characters and their heirs in a plausible way in 2022. Do you insert a generation or more between the JSA and the Infinitors? Do you make the JSA either through a time jump or keeping dates vague simply a decade or so older than the Trinity? And whatever you choose are others going to follow? Having Flash treat Jay as having 80 years of adventures while Alan is treated as having spent half a century in Limbo isn't going to help.

Yes, most of the ww2 characters don’t have to be active in the present. (A call back to the mystery men and pulp heroes that predated and inspired the superhero genre.) Really only Allan Scott, the Golden age Flash and maybe Wild cat need to be active. The rest could be talked about in retrospect or have an active l legacy characters. In a way it would be a more organic way of adding new characters then the present way.

[Restingvoice]

Which Earth 2 are we talking about?

[mathew101281]

Which Earth 2 are we talking about?

the one with the jSA

[Jon Clark]

I get that the 1940's heroes don't have to be active, but the Infinitors' connections make less and less sense the further you remove them from the JSA. Does Jesse Quick remain the daughter of two 1940's heroes? Is Atom-Smasher the great-great-grandson of one of the Atom's opponents? Do they create new characters to fill the time between the JSA generation and Infinity generation who were heroes.

[Restingvoice]

the one with the jSA

Isn't the current JSA part of Earth-0?

[Ascended]

Seems to me the issue isn't earth-2, it's DC.

The JSA were barely utilized post-Crisis until Robinson and Johns, and once Johns left the book fell apart.

Since then, the longest run the JSA has seen was the New52 version of Earth-2 (bad though it was). The team has been back on clutter earth since the end of Doomsday Clock, back in....2018? Four years ago?

DC *still* doesn't know what to do with them. Bryan Hitch had a plan for a relaunch, but once he left the project? Fell apart again.

The issue doesn't seem to be earth-2. At a guess, DC is trying to position the Big 7 Leaguers as the "elder statesmen" of the DCU. And if that's the role guys like Clark and Bruce are gonna play, then where does that leave the JSA?

Limbo, apparently.

[SiegePerilous02]

The JSA didn't do too hot in Post-Crisis continuity until Robinson and Johns. Pre-Crisis it seems like they were able to sustain a couple of books, while the aftermath of COIE lead to DC not knowing what to do with them right away.

So Earth-2 isn't an inherent problem for the JSA/Golden Age cast, nor is one merged Earth an inherent boost. It ultimately depends on if DC is inclined to do anything with them and if they have a good creative team to draw attention, and that can sink or swim a book no matter what continuity it is in.

[MajorHoy]

I feel that most characters that were shuttled off to earth 2 have essentially been sidelined and the one earth post Crisis universe was better for them in retrospect. It felt like the JSA and other characters were more prominent back then and now they are pretty much after thoughts. I feel that the one earth model gave characters and the DC universe a sense of history, and generational progression and depth that is lost with the multiverse model.

The idea of "Earth-2" / "Earth-Two" in the pre-CoIE universe wasn't a problem. The JSA was appearing every +/-summer for an issue or three, plus other Golden Age characters might guest-star in stories of their Earth-1 counterparts.

After CoIE, which ended in 1986, the majority of the JSA was taken out of the picture with Last Days of the Justice Society Special #1 (also from 1986)


And it wasn't until six years later that they returned.


They even got their own series again, which was cancelled after ten issues in 1993.

Then, one year after that (1994), during Zero Hour: Crisis in Time, members of the JSA were once again killed off or aged-up and sidelined.


It would be five more years before the JSA would be treated with respect again.

[superduperman]

Far as I know they don't have any plans for it anyway so it may be a moot point. I'm not sure the end of DDC is even canon anymore.

[bat39]

Yes, most of the ww2 characters don’t have to be active in the present. (A call back to the mystery men and pulp heroes that predated and inspired the superhero genre.) Really only Allan Scott, the Golden age Flash and maybe Wild cat need to be active. The rest could be talked about in retrospect or have an active l legacy characters. In a way it would be a more organic way of adding new characters then the present way.

The JSA being dead in the present doesn't solve the timeline issues though, unless you ignore the entirety of their post-Golden Age history.

As per Post-COIE continuity (which may or may not have been restored), the entire JSA was around during the early years of the JLA. The same guys who were around during WW2.

Now, let's assume the JLA started out around 20 years ago on the sliding timescale. So, 2002. The JSA heroes were all born in the 1910's so they'd all be pushing 90. Did the JLA team-up with 90 year olds during all those classic JLA/JSA team-ups? And in another decade, those adventures would have happened in 2012, which means the JLA would be 100 at the time. And so on.

This is the fundamental problem with the JSA being tied to WW2 and the JLA (and the rest of the DCU) being on a sliding timescale. The gap gets wider and wider to the point where drastic and convoluted explanations are needed to justify it.

Saying that ''Oh well, they'd all be 110 now so they're dead'' doesn't make a difference when canonically, right now, they're supposed to have been active in their 90's about 20 years ago!

Earth 2 actually provides a neat explanation, but the mechanics of that need to be worked out carefully if you want to explain how they can now also co-exist with contemporary heroes and be a part of the current DCU's WW2 history.

[caj]

You could make the JSA characters from Earth 2 only have their WWII occur later than the 1940s and make their ages be in their 40s or 50s instead of of their 80s.