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  1. #46

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    Just to add i would say it's more like extradition. Like countries extradite criminials all the time and guess what, the countries take those murderers etc back in, sure it's to jail (not always) but krakoa didn't have any laws at the time thus there was nothing to charge those who were extradited and given immunity with and they started to build as they went, see sabretooth. But some things are all in how people want to perceive them.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Just to add i would say it's more like extradition. Like countries extradite criminials all the time and guess what, the countries take those murderers etc back in, sure it's to jail (not always) but krakoa didn't have any laws at the time thus there was nothing to charge those who were extradited and given immunity with and they started to build as they went, see sabretooth. But some things are all in how people want to perceive them.
    Which i would argue seems to include the current writers too. It feels like each of them has differnet ideals and flaws in mind they want to apply to this rather rushly created super human nation to fit their stories, what ever it fits what other writers do or not. With the editorial showing a hands off approach (unless they suddently change things behind the writers back), resulting in an inconsistent tone or direction.
    Last edited by Grunty; 05-22-2022 at 03:39 PM.

  3. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    Which i would argue seems to include the current writers too. It feels like each of them has differnet ideals and flaws in mind they want to apply to this rather rushly created super human nation to fit their stories, what ever it fits what other writers do or not. With the editorial showing a hands off approach (unless they suddently change things behind the writers back), resulting in an inconsistent tone or direction.
    In my opinion that's a problem. A writer needs to approach a situation honestly and ask all the right questions and make the story fit not just move the pieces in anyway to serve the plot. One can feel an authentic story imo. And one can feel and inauthentic one, even if hidden in "good writing" because as have been noted these are characters with history and a long one at that and yes it can be adjusted and perceived differently even by writers but it's still their job to find the fair voice within the material. If they can't do that then isn't it just personal fan fiction?

    For instance and i hate to go back there. The terrigen cloud. Like no one perceived the optics on that? I mean would you sit around and do nothing if there was a posionous cloud going around killing your friends and family because someone told you it was sacred? i mean lets get real. i find that hard to believe and yet the story was what it was.
    Last edited by jwatson; 05-22-2022 at 03:44 PM.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    (...)For instance and i hate to go back there. The terrigen cloud. Like no one perceived the optics on that? I mean would you sit around and do nothing if there was a posionous cloud going around killing your friends and family because someone told you it was sacred? i mean lets get real. i find that hard to believe and yet the story was what it was.
    Even if it would affect your "enemy" it should raise countless alarm bells and major concerns, as it would logicaly open the possibility that it would be harmfull to you aswell if left unchecked. It should have been like in 1986.

    There is also the fact that the Terrigan Mist can give super powers out in the same random lottery style fashion as the X-gene, meaning anyone who gets in contact with it and has enough inhuman heritage to get super powers from it, would face the same horror that anyone who's X-gene is triggered at puperty would. Mainly that their powers would land somewhere between living god and "I have no mouth but i must scream".

    So i agree, while we should put it to rest, the entire situation was one editorial enforced inconsistent mess.

    The worst thing with it is that looking back there could have actualy be a damn interesting story here.

    Where the fear of mutants is suddently overshadowed by the fear of inhumans, because it's the same kind of super power lottery and chance that the wrong people could get the wrong powers without anyone knowing for sure, but caused by an unknown chemical agent with unpercievable longterm effects on the rest of humanity, which got unleashed by "foreigners" who now walk around demanding it to be left alone or threatening violent actions, while many more of them are hidden among the population.
    With the potential irony of many people suddently becoming much less hostile and even supportive towards mutantkind for being "the devil they know".

    If just editorial would have gone with a more believable and balanced approach to the premise.

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    Even if it would affect your "enemy" it should raise countless alarm bells and major concerns, as it would logicaly open the possibility that it would be harmfull to you aswell if left unchecked. It should have been like in 1986.

    There is also the fact that the Terrigan Mist can give super powers out in the same random lottery style fashion as the X-gene, meaning anyone who gets in contact with it and has enough inhuman heritage to get super powers from it, would face the same horror that anyone who's X-gene is triggered at puperty would. Mainly that their powers would land somewhere between living god and "I have no mouth but i must scream".

    So i agree, while we should put it to rest, the entire situation was one editorial enforced inconsistent mess.

    The worst thing with it is that looking back there could have actualy be a damn interesting story here.

    Where the fear of mutants is suddently overshadowed by the fear of inhumans, because it's the same kind of super power lottery and chance that the wrong people could get the wrong powers without anyone knowing for sure, but caused by an unknown chemical agent with unpercievable longterm effects on the rest of humanity, which got unleashed by "foreigners" who now walk around demanding it to be left alone or threatening violent actions, while many more of them are hidden among the population.
    With the potential irony of many people suddently becoming much less hostile and even supportive towards mutantkind for being "the devil they know".

    If just editorial would have gone with a more believable and balanced approach to the premise.
    Some of the older stories didn't go so hard on the idea that Mutants specifically are feared and hated. OG Sentinels were designed to police supers in general, not JUST Mutants. And the SHRA uses this logic as well. Powerful supers are more dangerous than atom bombs. It makes sense for the public to be scared of people who can raze entire towns. It's the core focus of the Hulk book for decades.

  6. #51
    Mighty Member PhoenixThanos's Avatar
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    I like the current period with Krakoa, the mutants have evolved and rightfully so.
    I enjoy anything Marvel cosmic, especially Thanos or Dark Phoenix related, loved the original Uncanny Avengers series.

    (Marvel/DC fan for 42+ years)

  7. #52
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    The X-Men will go back to basics eventually. The question is when and how.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
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    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    It is possible, and perhaps inevitable because if there's one thing Marvel is consistent about is editors and writers wanting to bring back the status quo to exactly how it was in their childhood, even if requires a deal with the devil.

    Should they? Fuck no!
    It is inevitable, I mean how many times have the X-Line expanded and then contracted and then again expanded.

    you had the original 5 then Claremont expanded them, then they contracted during the Outback era, then they expanded again under the Young Guns with multiple large teams, then contracted post Onslaught, then expanded under Morrison, then contracted with Whedon, so on and so forth.

    It may happen whenever they get introduced to the MCU.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    And perhaps i'm just a little too hopeful but i would think a much more powerful story would be "death is for humans" just imagine the irony of humans taking pride in the fact that one day they will grow old and die, i would expect there would be a group that would call that the purity of true humanity, and it be blasphemy to kill a mutant but torture is fine. I mean like shift with the times. lol. ah well the truth is it is what it is though. people have to create the type of stories with hope or change they want to see because apparently comics is for an aging demographic and not subject to evolution, at least that seems to be the consensus beat into the fans of the big two.
    In ancient times, people were more religious and lived in hope that they will go to paradise after their death. In those times, life was hard and so people feared death less than we do now…

    There had been some stories where the mutants were considered as “abominations”, as a deviation of the norm… What is interesting in a storytelling, it’s when characters can change their point of view, not when they are hell-bent on their beliefs. For me, this possibility of “changing minds” is a part of "basic”.
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  10. #55
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    The current books have that though… Red is all about space and Mars politics, New Mutants is all character work that has nothing do with with juman antagonists, Duggan’s book is all about being heroes to everyone on Earth.

    That all being said it’d be very easy for one (or a few) out of many X-books to go back to basics and the mansion.
    And is there a dialogue between all these titles? Have Duggan’s characters a point of view about the ones who live in Krakoa, on the policies on Mars?
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    The weirdest part to me is that Krakoa openly invited people that HAVE committed or attempted to commit genocide on mutants and in many cases even put them in power.

    It's like if the Jews and Nazis decided to live together and nobody held a grudge.
    What is weird for me, it’s that suddenly races matter more than moral, past fights…True, it’s the Krakoa’s policy but it’s the “nobody held a grudge” part that is surprising… apart the thing with Greycrow. It should raise more suspicions.
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    What is weird for me, it’s that suddenly races matter more than moral, past fights…True, it’s the Krakoa’s policy but it’s the “nobody held a grudge” part that is surprising… apart the thing with Greycrow. It should raise more suspicions.
    This isn't true, it's never been true and it never will be true.

    That's just your headcanon of this era.
    The Krakoans are EEEvil!

    THEY MUST BE STOPPED!

  13. #58
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Yes. Of course. But it would have to involve retconning a lot of the post-00s canon. Which I think would be amazing. But it would make the small but vocal internet segment who love the character assassination go ballistic, and Marvel editors (or lack thereof) seem to be more attentive to the toxic fans than the rest of us.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  14. #59
    Incredible Member TheRealWashout's Avatar
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    Probably, but they have to to Stripped first.

  15. #60
    Fantastic Member LukeCagefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    Yes. Of course. But it would have to involve retconning a lot of the post-00s canon. Which I think would be amazing. But it would make the small but vocal internet segment who love the character assassination go ballistic, and Marvel editors (or lack thereof) seem to be more attentive to the toxic fans than the rest of us.
    You the next Jim Shooter lol. Love it!

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