Is It Possible for The X-Men To Go Back to Basics?

[Kingdom X]

Honestly? the old way was more realistic IMO. Just think about it, why would the general public care so much about WHY people have powers? Which would scare you more, the Hulk or a kid who glows in the dark? In the old days the reason for Mutants being feared was the idea of Mutants being dangerous.... which also goes for Gamma mutates.

There is the idea that the neighbor kid who glows in the dark might develop more.... potent abilities later in life, but that's a potential future problem, not a current present problem.

I think the idea that your kid or any of your neighbors could randomly start looking like a demon or develop weird/dangerous abilities is far than enough motivation for fear and paranoia to pop up. Literally look at how pressed people get about their kids "turning gay" if someone explains sexuality to them or they see a same-sex couple in a movie. Yeah it's not entirely logical in a world with Hulks and Avengers, but that doesn't mean it doesn't reflect some realities.

[Zelena]

Honestly? the old way was more realistic IMO. Just think about it, why would the general public care so much about WHY people have powers? Which would scare you more, the Hulk or a kid who glows in the dark? In the old days the reason for Mutants being feared was the idea of Mutants being dangerous.... which also goes for Gamma mutates.

I think the only mutant that was persecuted back then for being different was Nightcrawler, because he looks like a demon. The others were feared when they showed their powers.
I agree that a Hulk-like being (mutant or not) would trigger an immediate and understandable recoil.

There is the idea that the neighbor kid who glows in the dark might develop more.... potent abilities later in life, but that's a potential future problem, not a current present problem.

Decades of dealing with mutants might have made the humans more suspicious and touchy. Any unusual feature (green skin, antennas…) could mean that this person has also deadly or unsettling powers…

But in my opinion, the actual tension between mutants and humans is the result of a lack of new ideas from authors more than a desire to be close to a reality. It’s comic not a sociological survey about problems that don’t exist: the mutants don’t exist.

[Nazrel]

But in my opinion, the actual tension between mutants and humans is the result of a lack of new ideas from authors more than a desire to be close to a reality. It’s comic not a sociological survey about problems that don’t exist: the mutants don’t exist.

It is the insufferable hamster wheel they have been trapped on.

[dragon1440]

Honestly? the old way was more realistic IMO. Just think about it, why would the general public care so much about WHY people have powers? Which would scare you more, the Hulk or a kid who glows in the dark? In the old days the reason for Mutants being feared was the idea of Mutants being dangerous.... which also goes for Gamma mutates.

There is the idea that the neighbor kid who glows in the dark might develop more.... potent abilities later in life, but that's a potential future problem, not a current present problem.

Honestly because of the way the mind works, unless face to face with the Hulk they would be more scared, not of the mutant, but of the implications in the world. For most people in the 616 they have not seen the Hulk or even most super heroes/villains unless they live in say New York city or other place that gets attacked frequently and where it is part of day to day life. For most super-hero/villains are a one time thing IF they even see one in person. Lets say the Earth has 1 MILLION super powered non mutant super-heroes/villains (Does anyone have a exact number, I estimated way high) , that a drop in the bucket compared to the population of the Earth. According to most estimates people see up to 80,000 people in there lifetime. That is still a drop in the bucket. The Earth's population is 7.9 BILLION, Lets even take 2.4 Billion away for differences in real world and 616. Thats still 5 Billion people. So often IF a person's life is affected by a Super hero battle or some other thing related to superhero's/villains it is a one and done event like a Hurricane or Earth quake etc. While mentally mutants represent things that affect day to day life. The fact the human race as they know it is dying out. The fact that it is random and parents worrying about if there child is going to be a mutant or not (and in real life things like worrying if a child would be gay has kept people from having children for example, why bring a baby into this messed up world we live in). Things like knowing it is science and genes and that there is no control over that and knowing the "human race" is ending which leaves people in a state of fear. The fact some mutants can hide in plain site, you can see the Hulk and most, not all, when you see them you know they are different and can act accordingly. But with mutants and hiding in plain sight it become a constant reminder that mutants exist because your always looking over your shoulder so to speak. The fact that mutants don't always have great control over there powers, espically if they are not trained to be part of the X-Men. The list goes on. It becomes a matter of outside source of trouble (ie Hulk) vs something more abstract and internal with the idea of mutants can happen anywhere anytime and it is Mother Nature;s evolution. The Hulk or any individual is only one individual, and thus can be battled, while mutants are a evolutionary step and you can't fight evolution in general.

A great way to think about it would you be more scared of an alien invasion and the individual aliens or the thought that aliens are here and slowly infiltrating society by saving hybrid children and slowly take over once there children out weigh regular humans. One is at least a known, an invasion, that you can fight back against. One is abstract and there the unknown, and how do you fight back if you dont know if a person is an alien hybrid or a human. The unknown is ALWAYS filled with more fear then something that is knowable.

[dragon1440]

I think the only mutant that was persecuted back then for being different was Nightcrawler, because he looks like a demon. The others were feared when they showed their powers.
I agree that a Hulk-like being (mutant or not) would trigger an immediate and understandable recoil.


Decades of dealing with mutants might have made the humans more suspicious and touchy. Any unusual feature (green skin, antennas…) could mean that this person has also deadly or unsettling powers…

But in my opinion, the actual tension between mutants and humans is the result of a lack of new ideas from authors more than a desire to be close to a reality. It’s comic not a sociological survey about problems that don’t exist: the mutants don’t exist.

There is NOTHING that says comics cant be a sociological issue as well, they are not mutually exclusive. The X-Men has always been a metaphor for the civil rights movement and seeking equality. It has just expanded to also include other minorities under the metaphor for example LGBTQ+. Even Stan Lee said in 2017, "“Those stories have room for everyone, regardless of their race, gender, religion, or color of their skin,”". Claremont said it back in 1982, "The X-Men are hated, feared, and despised collectively by humanity for no other reason than that they are mutants. So what we have here, intended or not, is a book that is about racism, bigotry, and prejudice." It's like saying Star Trek is not about society problems and that Star Trek has become "woke", when it has been that way from episode 1 of TOS. Something can be a work of fiction, and even an escape from reality with the stories, but the stories always have and always will have metaphoric ideas behind the stories. So to imply that it doesn't matter because mutants don't exist (and therefore an escape from reality only) is totally wrong. These comics have real world issues and implications. It's not a matter of having new ideas its a matter of evolving those ideas to match current socialite issues which sadly have not changed in all these years AND THEREFORE THEY SEEM LIKE OLD IDEAS. bUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THESE ISSUES ARE KEEPING BEING WRITTEN OVER AND OVER IN DIFFERENT WAYS BECAUSE THE PROBLEMS THAT THE x-mEN ARE METAPHORS FOR HAVE NOT CHANGE. hate STILL EXISTS IN REAL WORLD.(opps caps lock)

[bat39]

One way I could see it working is if they truly split the line, with one half devoted to the old fight for equal rights for mutants among the human nations and the other half devoted to maintaining Krakoa as a haven for mutants. There will always be mutants who do not want to come to a new nation for a variety of reasons, and they will need someone to fight for them. There is potential now for an ideological split in which all sides support the other and remain completely cordial and friendly even if their methods differ greatly. Krakoa ensures mutants will always thrive as a group, while the new old-school X-Men would work to ensure mutants are treated with respect as individuals. The current X-Men book covers the basic superheroics, but it's as the representatives of Krakoa, which limits how far it can go in terms of old-school feel. But there's no reason they can't tell stories which satisfy both people who love Krakoa and people who prefer the old paradigm as long as its understood the extinction plotlines are done for good. Just cut a few books from the current X-line and replace them with a couple of books which fill that old-school mutant niche and there'd be a happy balance.

That could be interesting. It could work both ways actually - new X-men teams forming to serve as ambassadors of mutantkind to the human world and fighting to save humans and mutants alike. And new Brotherhood teams forming either to use their powers for their benefit in the human world or to try to re-implement Magneto's old supremacist ideology and work towards dominating/exterminating humans.

Could lead to some interesting scenarios - like a new Brotherhood member wanted by the authorities being pursued by the new X-men who goes to Krakoa. And the X-men can't bring him/her back to face human justice, which complicates their own situation with potential human allies.

I want marvel to go back to bascis and feel like a shared universe where heroes care about each other despite the hickups that may come with that. To this day no one can tell me the avengers of old wouldn't have been the first to show up, well second after the FF if the x-lawn was being occupied by people trying to hurt mutant kids. So perhaps the back to basics needs to be the synergy of it not being hero vs hero for almost every event. It wasn't like a switched turned over night and people were suddenly only supporting certain segments of marvel. it was purposeful.

Krakoa is no different than Latervia, or Wakanda, or any of the other imaginary places in the MU.

Hate to say it, but maybe its some of that real-world polarization leaking through.

Agree whole-heartedly.

I personally want a more nuanced view of the mutants from the general public. Not necessarily changing the fear and hate, but tempering it down a good chunk from the whole world with some speckles of quiet tolerance to something more balanced. If we want a reflection of the real world in our comics, people would logically be hearing stories from mutants of their lives with movies about protagonist mutants shaping perceptions like they do for us today.

In that way, there would at least be more accepting attitudes from the younger generation where the older generation would be more resistant to bigoted while others would be more understanding. There would be in-fighting among humans about how cruel the view points of the past were to mutants while others would point out the damage they would do are astronomically more likely than any terrorist with a bomb or gun. Both would be extreme viewpoints, with neither side completely right or wrong. At the end of the day, there should be a level of acceptance to give the heroes hope to keep going.

Like when I did my fan fiction of the X-Men, I had Xavier and Beast at a rally with Nightcrawler and the majority were bigots or just cowering in fear of a Sentinel that showed up. To display the Hope Xavier felt, I had Kurt (who was not an X-Man yet) speak to Beast about his perception of people being misguided, but not something Kurt holds against them. In that, Spider-Man shows up to help Nightcrawler and Beast against the Sentinel and Xavier telepathically guides Beasts attention to two kids marveling at the mutants fighting alongside well-known hero, Spider-Man, to show hope for the younger generation is there.

Not sure if age would make a difference. Then again, I don't think anti-mutant sentiment can be so directly equated to real-world ''bigotry'' either. Not sure if having an existential fear of a race that might (and claims to be) the next step in human evolution and collectively has the power to end life as you know it is quiet the same thing as bigotry.

Honestly? the old way was more realistic IMO. Just think about it, why would the general public care so much about WHY people have powers? Which would scare you more, the Hulk or a kid who glows in the dark? In the old days the reason for Mutants being feared was the idea of Mutants being dangerous.... which also goes for Gamma mutates.

There is the idea that the neighbor kid who glows in the dark might develop more.... potent abilities later in life, but that's a potential future problem, not a current present problem.

Reminds me of how Senator Kelly's speech in the original DOFP story talked about other superhumans as well, not just mutants.

Granted, the difference between humans and mutants is that mutants are widely known to be the ''next step in evolution'' while superhumans are just ordinary humans empowered by various circumstances. Also, in the Marvel Universe, enhanced humans are feared - it just so happens that the two major superhuman groups - Fantastic Four and the Avengers - have excellent PR that sort of helps the wider superhuman community.

[Zelena]

There is NOTHING that says comics cant be a sociological issue as well, they are not mutually exclusive. The X-Men has always been a metaphor for the civil rights movement and seeking equality. It has just expanded to also include other minorities under the metaphor for example LGBTQ+. Even Stan Lee said in 2017, "“Those stories have room for everyone, regardless of their race, gender, religion, or color of their skin,”". Claremont said it back in 1982, "The X-Men are hated, feared, and despised collectively by humanity for no other reason than that they are mutants. So what we have here, intended or not, is a book that is about racism, bigotry, and prejudice." It's like saying Star Trek is not about society problems and that Star Trek has become "woke", when it has been that way from episode 1 of TOS. Something can be a work of fiction, and even an escape from reality with the stories, but the stories always have and always will have metaphoric ideas behind the stories. So to imply that it doesn't matter because mutants don't exist (and therefore an escape from reality only) is totally wrong. These comics have real world issues and implications. It's not a matter of having new ideas its a matter of evolving those ideas to match current socialite issues which sadly have not changed in all these years AND THEREFORE THEY SEEM LIKE OLD IDEAS. bUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THESE ISSUES ARE KEEPING BEING WRITTEN OVER AND OVER IN DIFFERENT WAYS BECAUSE THE PROBLEMS THAT THE x-mEN ARE METAPHORS FOR HAVE NOT CHANGE. hate STILL EXISTS IN REAL WORLD.(opps caps lock)

What a X-men story is depends on the wishes of the author… I personally never read a X-men story as a metaphor for the civil rights movement because… no one ever told me it was about that…

That it was about difference was rather obvious… Nightcrawler was feared for no other reason but the way he looked… Same for the Beast. But the situation wasn’t the same for Jean Grey who was beautiful and had awesome powers. She could be feared for having too much power. Cyclops could lose the control of his power. Each of them were different from each other and could make different stories.

It was different from: “They were hated because they were mutants and mutants were hated.”

[dragon1440]

What a X-men story is depends on the wishes of the author… I personally never read a X-men story as a metaphor for the civil rights movement because… no one ever told me it was about that…

That it was about difference was rather obvious… Nightcrawler was feared for no other reason but the way he looked… Same for the Beast. But the situation wasn’t the same for Jean Grey who was beautiful and had awesome powers. She could be feared for having too much power. Cyclops could lose the control of his power. Each of them were different from each other and could make different stories.

It was different from: “They were hated because they were mutants and mutants were hated.”

Considering that two of the biggest names AND more connected to the X-Men said they were I would go with what they said over a readers interpretation. And if a person can't see the OBVIOUS metaphor of it then the person must have grown up largely ignorant of what minorities go through and have gone through for generations. As for Jean Grey, metaphor for white-passing Black people. The X-men are ALL about minorities and oppression, they just don't treat the reader as ignorant of the real world and society. Actually quite a few comics are really response to real world social and human issues.

[bat39]

Honestly because of the way the mind works, unless face to face with the Hulk they would be more scared, not of the mutant, but of the implications in the world. For most people in the 616 they have not seen the Hulk or even most super heroes/villains unless they live in say New York city or other place that gets attacked frequently and where it is part of day to day life. For most super-hero/villains are a one time thing IF they even see one in person. Lets say the Earth has 1 MILLION super powered non mutant super-heroes/villains (Does anyone have a exact number, I estimated way high) , that a drop in the bucket compared to the population of the Earth. According to most estimates people see up to 80,000 people in there lifetime. That is still a drop in the bucket. The Earth's population is 7.9 BILLION, Lets even take 2.4 Billion away for differences in real world and 616. Thats still 5 Billion people. So often IF a person's life is affected by a Super hero battle or some other thing related to superhero's/villains it is a one and done event like a Hurricane or Earth quake etc. While mentally mutants represent things that affect day to day life. The fact the human race as they know it is dying out. The fact that it is random and parents worrying about if there child is going to be a mutant or not (and in real life things like worrying if a child would be gay has kept people from having children for example, why bring a baby into this messed up world we live in). Things like knowing it is science and genes and that there is no control over that and knowing the "human race" is ending which leaves people in a state of fear. The fact some mutants can hide in plain site, you can see the Hulk and most, not all, when you see them you know they are different and can act accordingly. But with mutants and hiding in plain sight it become a constant reminder that mutants exist because your always looking over your shoulder so to speak. The fact that mutants don't always have great control over there powers, espically if they are not trained to be part of the X-Men. The list goes on. It becomes a matter of outside source of trouble (ie Hulk) vs something more abstract and internal with the idea of mutants can happen anywhere anytime and it is Mother Nature;s evolution. The Hulk or any individual is only one individual, and thus can be battled, while mutants are a evolutionary step and you can't fight evolution in general.

A great way to think about it would you be more scared of an alien invasion and the individual aliens or the thought that aliens are here and slowly infiltrating society by saving hybrid children and slowly take over once there children out weigh regular humans. One is at least a known, an invasion, that you can fight back against. One is abstract and there the unknown, and how do you fight back if you dont know if a person is an alien hybrid or a human. The unknown is ALWAYS filled with more fear then something that is knowable.

Very well put!

What a X-men story is depends on the wishes of the author… I personally never read a X-men story as a metaphor for the civil rights movement because… no one ever told me it was about that…

That it was about difference was rather obvious… Nightcrawler was feared for no other reason but the way he looked… Same for the Beast. But the situation wasn’t the same for Jean Grey who was beautiful and had awesome powers. She could be feared for having too much power. Cyclops could lose the control of his power. Each of them were different from each other and could make different stories.

It was different from: “They were hated because they were mutants and mutants were hated.”

Agreed.

I do believe that the ''mutant metaphor'' is a valid interpretation of the franchise. But its not all that the franchise is about.

Considering that two of the biggest names AND more connected to the X-Men said they were I would go with what they said over a readers interpretation. And if a person can't see the OBVIOUS metaphor of it then the person must have grown up largely ignorant of what minorities go through and have gone through for generations. As for Jean Grey, metaphor for white-passing Black people. The X-men are ALL about minorities and oppression, they just don't treat the reader as ignorant of the real world and society. Actually quite a few comics are really response to real world social and human issues.

Even Stan Lee said in 2017, "“Those stories have room for everyone, regardless of their race, gender, religion, or color of their skin,”".

Not sure how this means that the X-men franchise is necessarily all about mutants being a metaphor for real-world minorities.

Its worth noting that the original Lee/Kirby run barely engaged with the idea of mutants as a persecuted minority.

Claremont said it back in 1982, "The X-Men are hated, feared, and despised collectively by humanity for no other reason than that they are mutants. So what we have here, intended or not, is a book that is about racism, bigotry, and prejudice."

''Intended or not'' being the operative phrase. Yes, its an interpretation of the franchise that Claremont embraced in his work, and later writers embraced in his stead. But its not all what its about.

[ColossusFan]

Maybe but... there are some fans that are obnoxiously die-hard about this era. I don't think it would be impossible to go back to something resembling what we had before but how does it NOT turn into
what we had "in between" which is nothing but extinction event after extinction event. Which was unsatisfying too.

ITT: Something occurred to me. Ironically all that fighting from the X-fans toward the inhuman fans for basically... well for the X-men (and by extension the mutant race) basically BECAME the Inhumans.

Its crazy they have a cool SHTICK but its so similar to what the inhumans were not long ago. Isolationist gene cult living on a moving island. the ontly thing is that some of your personal favorites
live on this island instead of that one. Strange. I wonder if the Powers of X Would have been an inhuman story line would it have read much more different that what we have now.

Been saying this from the start of this era.. The X-men are the Inhumans now.. As you say, they have a schtick, it's just not theirs.. There was so much hate and vitriol from X-fans towards the Inhumans during the IvX era..hilarious to see a lot of the same people praise this era now that mutants have basically become the same thing they hated not too long ago

And as far as it playing out the same..not exactly..if it was an Inhumans story, Hickman would've been able to finish his story and it would be over or close to it..but because it's the X-men (basically in name and likeness only) they're going to milk it for as long as they can..

But make no mistake, Hickman didn't write an X-men story..he wrote a story (using things very similar to the Inhumans) and decided to use the X-men for it..cherry picking some X history helped him expand it a little sure..but not an X-men story..he was just fitting X-men characters into the parts he needed them to play..that's why so many seem OOC in his stories..

But yeah, they're basically the Inhumans..and apparently Deviants now too..the dumb shit really just keeps on coming in this era..but dumb shit is just what Marvel (Comics) is peddling these days

[BobbysWorld]

Can I just ask....where are people even getting this idea that there's EVER been an era where prejudice wasn't central to the X-Franchise? I keep seeing people reference these good old days where mutants being hated by humans wasn't a big or constant thing and I'm just like.....all due respect, but what books were you reading?

Have the X-books at times had STORY ARCS that didn't focus on human/mutant relations and prejudice, and where the X-Men just fought the Brood in space or a sorcerer in the Savage Land? Sure. Of course. But those arcs have always just been sprinkled across the entirety of the X-books' existence, there was never like, some extended period of time where prejudice against mutants was just wholly offscreen or not a big deal.

Mutants being hated and feared was the whole reason the 05 were schooled in secret and Xavier insisted they keep their identities hidden even from other heroes. The time between Giant-Size and the Dark Phoenix saga is literally the closest I can come up to in terms of what people are describing as just regular superheroes with no social commentary, but that honestly wasn't that long of a period? Maybe five years or so, which is kinda still just a blip on the sixty year existence of the X-Men. And even then, anti-mutant prejudices were still present and remarked upon, it played into all the stuff leading up to the Dark Phoenix Saga considering the Hellfire Club actively stoked conflict for their profit (like Shaw being an investor in the Sentinels program).

And since the Dark Phoenix Saga there's literally been no period of time that even comes close to matching that one singular five year period? From there we had Days of Future Past and all its fallout. Being hated and feared was hugely present in the New Mutants' original run and origins. The original X-Factor's premise had them literally posing as mutant HUNTERS as the most effective way to get to mutants in time to help them. Leading into everything with the Right and Cameron Hodge. There were stories in the wake of the Mutant Massacre that had X-characters dealing with the fact that most people flat out didn't care that a group of 'monstrous mutants' got slaughtered. There was the Mutant Registration act, anti-mutant prejudice wa a huge thematic element of things like the Trial of Magneto. We had things like the suicide of Larry Bodine. Stories like LifeDeath literally only happened because of anti-mutant prejudices being the reason the government had Forge coming up with technology specifically aimed at mutant powers. Even when the X-Men moved into the Outback era, that was what debuted the original Genosha stories where mutants were institutionally oppressed in that country. Once the X-teams reunited in Lee and Claremont's relaunch, anti-mutant sentiments were literally the basis of Magneto secluding himself away, the formation of the Acolytes, and central to pretty much every appearance the Acolytes ever MADE from that point on.

Then Bishop came from the future, where mutants were literally put in camps and branded, and thus anti-mutant prejudices were central to the entirety of his mission in the past, to PREVENT his future. The government sponsored version of X-Factor habitually cycled back to stories involving hostile public sentiment towards mutants. Organizations targeting mutants and anti-mutant groups and extremists featured regularly in the original X-Force's missions. Then came the Onslaught era, and hoo boy, were people not loving mutants then. And then there was the Legacy Virus and the public's reaction to that (a mix of 'hope it kills them all' and 'what if we catch it from mutants') and then there was everything with Graydon Creed which led into Operation: Zero Tolerance, and all of these were storylines and eras that recurred or spanned YEARS. Also I can think of maybe like, two Generation-X stories TOTAL, that didn't feature prejudice as a major theme, since a key part of Gen-X's premise was that many of its cast weren't 'the pretty kind of mutant' or had creepy or weird powers and Gen-X leaned heavily on how this affected the way the kids interacted with the rest of society for a lot of its most defining character beats.

Also let's not forget all the stories about Weapon X and Department H since Wolverine's debut, and while it was only post-2000 that they did stuff like Camp Neverland, the entirety of the Weapon X program's history in comics has been about the weaponization and exploitation of mutants, and that's literal dehumanization stemming from the entire program and everyone read into it not seeing mutants as people so much as just tools to be used?

Then around 2000 there was the Revolution era which I guess featured a couple years where SOME of the X-books just focused on regular superhero stuff, like X-Treme X-Men? But even then....not really, considering Vargas and his storylines stemmed from being a counter-measure to 'the mutant threat' and anti-mutant events were a recurring presence in Destiny's Diaries and over in the other X-titles you had stuff like the Purifiers and the London Morlock Massacre and an anti-mutant group literally crucifying mutants like Skin on the Xavier Institute's front lawn.

Oh yeah, and this was also around when E for Extinction hit which umm, people can say "okay but it was Cassandra Nova who wiped out Genosha, not actually humans" all they want (who made Sentinels tho I'm always gonna say. Its not even as simple as 'oh so anyone who makes a gun is responsible for everything people do with that gun, huh?' Because weapons in general are not made with ONE SINGULAR TARGET GROUP in mind. You can't design machines that only exist TO kill mutants and then say oh this has nothing to do with us when someone else sees them as a handy means of killing a group of mutants. BUT I DIGRESS). Even WITHOUT holding anti-mutant sentiment responsible for Genosha, that doesn't change the fact that it was CENTRAL to the FALLOUT of Genosha in the X-books, the way people reacted to the Institute going public, things like District X, the U-Men, etc. Say what you will about the storylines, the point is they were front and central, and that's my point with all of this.

And of course, we all know that era eventually culminated in M-Day and the Decimation, and the 'mutants are hated and feared' storylines have been everpresent at every single point since then.

Its just, all I'm saying is....they were everpresent THE WHOLE TIME BEFORE THAT TOO.

Scattered story arcs interspersed among all the stories about prejudice and oppression doesn't denote mass periods of the X-Men just being regular old superheroes no different from any other superhero group. And when at best you can only point to ONE SINGLE PERIOD of a mere five years out of the entire 60 year history of the franchise, where it wasn't consistently front and center (and to be honest, my recollection of the stories between Giant-Size and DPS is hazy as I haven't read them in awhile, so I'm not actually convinced that they were any less present even in that period, its simply that this is the one and only period I can think of that comes CLOSE to fitting the premise 'an extended point in X-Men history where prejudice wasn't a focal story point)....

Again, I'm just wondering....where are people getting this idea that the current era's focus on human/mutant relations has like....an opposite number in some mythical 'good old days' of X-Men stories past? Where mutants were just people with superpowers doing superpowered things and nobody thought twice about it? That's NEVER been the X-Men.

Like, with all due respect to anyone who DOES think that there was some past X-Men era where themes of prejudice and oppression weren't present and featured.....

Have you ever considered - especially if you're not someone who experiences these things in real life and thus has no reason to be particularly attuned to them or signs of them on any kind of personal, relatable level - that maybe those themes WERE there all along, and if they simply didn't register with you, escaped your notice, or failed to leave a lasting impression on you.....

That's kinda just....about what you personally came to the X-books for and what you took away from them PERSONALLY....rather than like....actual proof that there was ever some singular era or period where social issues weren't central to the X-Men franchise and its various characters?

[Devaishwarya]

Exactatiously.

Throughout its history "Protecting a world that hates and fears them" have at most times been in the forefront (if not the direct plot) of X-lore, some times in the background and even less, never touched on/mentioned...but it's always been present. From Lee to HiX-Man.

And while I never personally understood the MLK/MX civil rights analogy is such indirect socio-political terms, I fully understood the discrimination against and marginalisation of the "Other".

[BobbysWorld]

Exactatiously.

Throughout its history "Protecting a world that hates and fears them" have at most times been in the forefront (if not the direct plot) of X-lore, some times in the background and even less, never touched on/mentioned...but it's always been present. From Lee to HiX-Man.

And while I never personally understood the MLK/MX civil rights analogy is such indirect socio-political terms, I fully understood the discrimination against and marginalisation of the "Other".

I've always said the core conflict between groups of X-Fans as well as responsible for differing approaches among writers.....is the X-Men are a hugely relatable concept, its just some people relate to them because of feelings of alienation, and some people relate to them because of feelings of marginalization. And while both these things can at times have significant OVERLAP, it is absolutely a mistake to treat them as interchangeable, or assume that other people see them that way.

[Kingdom X]

Can I just ask....where are people even getting this idea that there's EVER been an era where prejudice wasn't central to the X-Franchise? I keep seeing people reference these good old days where mutants being hated by humans wasn't a big or constant thing and I'm just like.....all due respect, but what books were you reading?

Have the X-books at times had STORY ARCS that didn't focus on human/mutant relations and prejudice, and where the X-Men just fought the Brood in space or a sorcerer in the Savage Land? Sure. Of course. But those arcs have always just been sprinkled across the entirety of the X-books' existence, there was never like, some extended period of time where prejudice against mutants was just wholly offscreen or not a big deal.

Mutants being hated and feared was the whole reason the 05 were schooled in secret and Xavier insisted they keep their identities hidden even from other heroes. The time between Giant-Size and the Dark Phoenix saga is literally the closest I can come up to in terms of what people are describing as just regular superheroes with no social commentary, but that honestly wasn't that long of a period? Maybe five years or so, which is kinda still just a blip on the sixty year existence of the X-Men. And even then, anti-mutant prejudices were still present and remarked upon, it played into all the stuff leading up to the Dark Phoenix Saga considering the Hellfire Club actively stoked conflict for their profit (like Shaw being an investor in the Sentinels program).

And since the Dark Phoenix Saga there's literally been no period of time that even comes close to matching that one singular five year period? From there we had Days of Future Past and all its fallout. Being hated and feared was hugely present in the New Mutants' original run and origins. The original X-Factor's premise had them literally posing as mutant HUNTERS as the most effective way to get to mutants in time to help them. Leading into everything with the Right and Cameron Hodge. There were stories in the wake of the Mutant Massacre that had X-characters dealing with the fact that most people flat out didn't care that a group of 'monstrous mutants' got slaughtered. There was the Mutant Registration act, anti-mutant prejudice wa a huge thematic element of things like the Trial of Magneto. We had things like the suicide of Larry Bodine. Stories like LifeDeath literally only happened because of anti-mutant prejudices being the reason the government had Forge coming up with technology specifically aimed at mutant powers. Even when the X-Men moved into the Outback era, that was what debuted the original Genosha stories where mutants were institutionally oppressed in that country. Once the X-teams reunited in Lee and Claremont's relaunch, anti-mutant sentiments were literally the basis of Magneto secluding himself away, the formation of the Acolytes, and central to pretty much every appearance the Acolytes ever MADE from that point on.

Then Bishop came from the future, where mutants were literally put in camps and branded, and thus anti-mutant prejudices were central to the entirety of his mission in the past, to PREVENT his future. The government sponsored version of X-Factor habitually cycled back to stories involving hostile public sentiment towards mutants. Organizations targeting mutants and anti-mutant groups and extremists featured regularly in the original X-Force's missions. Then came the Onslaught era, and hoo boy, were people not loving mutants then. And then there was the Legacy Virus and the public's reaction to that (a mix of 'hope it kills them all' and 'what if we catch it from mutants') and then there was everything with Graydon Creed which led into Operation: Zero Tolerance, and all of these were storylines and eras that recurred or spanned YEARS. Also I can think of maybe like, two Generation-X stories TOTAL, that didn't feature prejudice as a major theme, since a key part of Gen-X's premise was that many of its cast weren't 'the pretty kind of mutant' or had creepy or weird powers and Gen-X leaned heavily on how this affected the way the kids interacted with the rest of society for a lot of its most defining character beats.

Also let's not forget all the stories about Weapon X and Department H since Wolverine's debut, and while it was only post-2000 that they did stuff like Camp Neverland, the entirety of the Weapon X program's history in comics has been about the weaponization and exploitation of mutants, and that's literal dehumanization stemming from the entire program and everyone read into it not seeing mutants as people so much as just tools to be used?

Then around 2000 there was the Revolution era which I guess featured a couple years where SOME of the X-books just focused on regular superhero stuff, like X-Treme X-Men? But even then....not really, considering Vargas and his storylines stemmed from being a counter-measure to 'the mutant threat' and anti-mutant events were a recurring presence in Destiny's Diaries and over in the other X-titles you had stuff like the Purifiers and the London Morlock Massacre and an anti-mutant group literally crucifying mutants like Skin on the Xavier Institute's front lawn.

Oh yeah, and this was also around when E for Extinction hit which umm, people can say "okay but it was Cassandra Nova who wiped out Genosha, not actually humans" all they want (who made Sentinels tho I'm always gonna say. Its not even as simple as 'oh so anyone who makes a gun is responsible for everything people do with that gun, huh?' Because weapons in general are not made with ONE SINGULAR TARGET GROUP in mind. You can't design machines that only exist TO kill mutants and then say oh this has nothing to do with us when someone else sees them as a handy means of killing a group of mutants. BUT I DIGRESS). Even WITHOUT holding anti-mutant sentiment responsible for Genosha, that doesn't change the fact that it was CENTRAL to the FALLOUT of Genosha in the X-books, the way people reacted to the Institute going public, things like District X, the U-Men, etc. Say what you will about the storylines, the point is they were front and central, and that's my point with all of this.

And of course, we all know that era eventually culminated in M-Day and the Decimation, and the 'mutants are hated and feared' storylines have been everpresent at every single point since then.

Its just, all I'm saying is....they were everpresent THE WHOLE TIME BEFORE THAT TOO.

Scattered story arcs interspersed among all the stories about prejudice and oppression doesn't denote mass periods of the X-Men just being regular old superheroes no different from any other superhero group. And when at best you can only point to ONE SINGLE PERIOD of a mere five years out of the entire 60 year history of the franchise, where it wasn't consistently front and center (and to be honest, my recollection of the stories between Giant-Size and DPS is hazy as I haven't read them in awhile, so I'm not actually convinced that they were any less present even in that period, its simply that this is the one and only period I can think of that comes CLOSE to fitting the premise 'an extended point in X-Men history where prejudice wasn't a focal story point)....

Again, I'm just wondering....where are people getting this idea that the current era's focus on human/mutant relations has like....an opposite number in some mythical 'good old days' of X-Men stories past? Where mutants were just people with superpowers doing superpowered things and nobody thought twice about it? That's NEVER been the X-Men.

Like, with all due respect to anyone who DOES think that there was some past X-Men era where themes of prejudice and oppression weren't present and featured.....

Have you ever considered - especially if you're not someone who experiences these things in real life and thus has no reason to be particularly attuned to them or signs of them on any kind of personal, relatable level - that maybe those themes WERE there all along, and if they simply didn't register with you, escaped your notice, or failed to leave a lasting impression on you.....

That's kinda just....about what you personally came to the X-books for and what you took away from them PERSONALLY....rather than like....actual proof that there was ever some singular era or period where social issues weren't central to the X-Men franchise and its various characters?

Oop close the thread y’all. These all the facts I need.

[mathew101281]

I think the only mutant that was persecuted back then for being different was Nightcrawler, because he looks like a demon. The others were feared when they showed their powers.
I agree that a Hulk-like being (mutant or not) would trigger an immediate and understandable recoil.


Decades of dealing with mutants might have made the humans more suspicious and touchy. Any unusual feature (green skin, antennas…) could mean that this person has also deadly or unsettling powers…

But in my opinion, the actual tension between mutants and humans is the result of a lack of new ideas from authors more than a desire to be close to a reality. It’s comic not a sociological survey about problems that don’t exist: the mutants don’t exist.

I feel humanities fear of mutants is due to the whole “next step in human evolution” thing not so much the powers thing. It’s essentially the whole “Great replacement” nonsense. Others superheroes might get powers by accident, but unless you live nearby that’s not really a threat to you. But mutants represent something way more existential.