What’s Molly Mayne’s stays since Alan Scott came out?

[CaptCleghorn]

Dr. Mid-Nite? Personally, I always thought he was gay. Between the accidental hints of Roy Thomas and the not-so-accidental hints of James Robinson, there seemed to be a modicum of subtext with regards to Chuck.

The rumors that Dr. Mid-Nite (McNider) was gay have been in fandom for many years. Going in that direction would have been simpler, but much quieter. The question of why not both might be asked.

It's also true Alan's marriage history was a mess. It was hugely convoluted in order to get him kids to take part in Infinity, Inc. Hidden twins and a mentally ill mother make for an overly soap opera story. It's messy regardless of Alan's Kinsey score. Retconning Molly Mayne to be a beard for him given the times seems to be a simple way to cover up Alan's being gay with a pair of characters who developed respect, if not two-way romantic love, for each other.

[Digifiend]

I agree. I get the idea behind saying a gay guy was closeted and so engaged in heterosexual relationships -- because it happens/happened. But it's getting really messy with Alan. It was a little less of a problem for Iceman since he was never married (Alan married twice -- and the second time he was in his 60s or 70s). Obviously they went with Alan because Green Lantern is a known commodity. Wildcat, Johnny Quick and Dr. Mid-Nite aren't. For simplicity's sake -- I think Jay may have been the way to go.

Well, there aren't kids to get in the way, but Jay is married too. Though I suppose Joan is probably in the same boat as Molly at this point.

[Thor-Ul]

Dr. Mid-Nite? Personally, I always thought he was gay. Between the accidental hints of Roy Thomas and the not-so-accidental hints of James Robinson, there seemed to be a modicum of subtext with regards to Chuck.

Indeed there was a proposal for Dr. Midnite to be revealed as gay in a story in the late 90s, but I don't remember who commented about oit. The writer, I don't remember, i think it was Joe Casey.

[astro@work]

The JSA-ers still alive all have reasoning for why at the moment (Dr Fate= magic immortality, Jay/Flash=Speed Force, Alan/GL=Magical green flame energy, Wildcat=nine lives, Hawkman=Reincarnated). What gets more problematic by the moment is WHEN did they have their kids? That one is waiting for a good writer to tackle, and I don't see how it couldn't involve a time jump of some sort.

The second piece is HOW are the JSA spouses still around? That one is even more problematic. Joan is the only one I'm aware of that has been seen since Flashpoint (I think). I'd have to think Molly has died of old age at this point, probably during the more recent years where the JSA was missing. As for whether she knew or didn't...again this is a tale for a good writer to take on, should Alan ever appear again (MY GOD WHERE IS THE JSA BOOK I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR SINCE FLASHPOINT???)
Since Molly and Alan got married later in life, I'd like to think maybe she did know and it was an affectionate platonic marriage.

As for Alyx Florin et al, it wouldn't be a huge stretch (post-Flashpoint where any previous continuity isn't guaranteed) that immortal Rose Forrest is indeed Rose Canton/Alyx.
That would clean up a lot of awkward continuity in a hurry. And as a gay dude, I can confirm I've got a lot of gay friends who struggled early on with identity issues and had kids before they fully came out. It's not unheard of by any means. So Alan's tryst with Alyx doesn't require Johnson & Johnson rewriting human sexuality.

[Mutant God]

Jay Garrick in particular has this old Americana vibe to him that wouldn't work if he was reimagined as a Gen-Xer for instance. If it's an alternate version like the New-52 where he was in his early 20s by all means go right ahead. But the main Jay Garrick starting out in the early 90s and being a fan of RATM or NIN just wouldn't work.

There are other music genres he could of listen to he doesn't have to be stereotypical grunge kid lol.

[kcekada]

Well Johnny Quick would've been just as problematic, imho, 'cause retconning his long-running marriage to Liberty Belle would've been annoying.

If you're thinking of Johnny Thunder, that'd be an easy character to out - he never really seemed to have a long-running girlfriend (his efforts with Daisy Darling were sporadic), and he was, always a bit "flamboyant." Still, retconning the team idiot as being gay seems not-nice.

Wildcat would've been a provocative choice.

No, I was thinking of Jay Garrick/Flash. No kids, so maybe not a lot going on in the bedroom. And on the CW, he's already played by an out actor -- though he may not have been cast yet when DC outed Alan. Yes, I can see Alan marrying Rose Canton as a beard. No, I don't think that by the time he was in his 60s/70s he would have married a second time just for appearances when he had been single most of his life!

Wildcat would have been a good choice, IMHO -- except that they recently gave him a kid as well -- and, unlike Green Lantern or the Flash, no one really knows who Wildcat. I'm sure DC wanted headlines where Green Lantern is gay. Wildcat is gay doesn't have the same cache.

[Thor-Ul]

As for Alyx Florin et al, it wouldn't be a huge stretch (post-Flashpoint where any previous continuity isn't guaranteed) that immortal Rose Forrest is indeed Rose Canton/Alyx.
That would clean up a lot of awkward continuity in a hurry. And as a gay dude, I can confirm I've got a lot of gay friends who struggled early on with identity issues and had kids before they fully came out. It's not unheard of by any means. So Alan's tryst with Alyx doesn't require Johnson & Johnson rewriting human sexuality.

That would be the worst idea ever. You would be linking the continuity of the JSA with the Legion And for the next reboot Legion would be a whole mess for the JSA than have their own set of problems.

[Refrax5]

No, I was thinking of Jay Garrick/Flash. No kids, so maybe not a lot going on in the bedroom. And on the CW, he's already played by an out actor -- though he may not have been cast yet when DC outed Alan. Yes, I can see Alan marrying Rose Canton as a beard. No, I don't think that by the time he was in his 60s/70s he would have married a second time just for appearances when he had been single most of his life!

Wildcat would have been a good choice, IMHO -- except that they recently gave him a kid as well -- and, unlike Green Lantern or the Flash, no one really knows who Wildcat. I'm sure DC wanted headlines where Green Lantern is gay. Wildcat is gay doesn't have the same cache.

Jay and Joan being unable to have kids was kind of a part of their story and Jay wanting but being unable to be a father was part of his love of being a mentor figure to the younger generation. Honestly, I can't buy Jay being gay just because he seemed so in love with his wife. Alan's marriage never felt as affectionate and warm as Jay's.

I think it's kind of difficult to do this kind of thing with any long running character. I don't mind Alan being gay. I think him being this big, burly, old fashioned man's man from that era makes that a bit more interesting, because he's the exact opposite of the stereotype. I also loved the Alan from the New 52 Earth 2 comic, so maybe that's why it feels more natural to me for it to be him.

[John Venus]

I agree. I get the idea behind saying a gay guy was closeted and so engaged in heterosexual relationships -- because it happens/happened. But it's getting really messy with Alan. It was a little less of a problem for Iceman since he was never married (Alan married twice -- and the second time he was in his 60s or 70s). Obviously they went with Alan because Green Lantern is a known commodity. Wildcat, Johnny Quick and Dr. Mid-Nite aren't. For simplicity's sake -- I think Jay may have been the way to go.

Well Johnny Quick would've been just as problematic, imho, 'cause retconning his long-running marriage to Liberty Belle would've been annoying.

If you're thinking of Johnny Thunder, that'd be an easy character to out - he never really seemed to have a long-running girlfriend (his efforts with Daisy Darling were sporadic), and he was, always a bit "flamboyant." Still, retconning the team idiot as being gay seems not-nice.

Wildcat would've been a provocative choice. Ted Grant, ladies' man who can keep up with Queen Freakin' Hippolyta and former heavyweight champion of the world, retconned into being a closet homosexual? That would've taken heavy editorial guts.

Dr. Mid-Nite? Personally, I always thought he was gay. Between the accidental hints of Roy Thomas and the not-so-accidental hints of James Robinson, there seemed to be a modicum of subtext with regards to Chuck.

The way I see it, at the time DC was going to get rid of their legacy heroes and that would have meant losing some gay characters like Obsidian/Todd Rice. So they made Alan/GL gay so that even if they lost a gay character the number of gay characters still remain the same.

If the story was about a long time JSA character coming out to their spouse then my choice would be either Johnny Quick or Jay Garrick. The main question is what happens to their spouses after one of them comes out? Do they just serve as an aggrieved antagonist character and then disappear into limbo? I don't want Joan to disappear into limbo. I think it could work with Johnny Quick. Nothing I've read has made me feel for them as a pairing and with Jesse being around, that ensures Libby would still have an important role.

I think Ted Grant could still work. He doesn't have any major romance arc. His previous relationships that resulted in Jake and the baby kidnapped by Yellow Wasp can always be retconned as him being in denial like George Michael and trying to convince himself that he was not gay. Maybe Hippolyta helped him realize that he was straight back in WW2 and even acted as his beard since she would have been more open minded about this stuff than anyone else from the era. Maybe it was the way Johns wrote it, but I have never been too keen on the way Ted was portrayed as a playa, just laying them and dumping them felt at odds with the gruff father figure relationship he had with so many other DC characters.

[Digifiend]

Johnny Quick is dead, and has been since the 90s (the Earth-3 Flash probably has that name to maintain the trademark). Recent reboots haven't changed that, he didn't emerge from the Speed Force with Jesse and Max and Jesse said he wasn't even there.

No, I was thinking of Jay Garrick/Flash. No kids, so maybe not a lot going on in the bedroom. And on the CW, he's already played by an out actor -- though he may not have been cast yet when DC outed Alan.

Wasn't it in 2011 when Alan was rebooted as a a gay man? That's before the current Flash TV show started. It's a year before Arrow even started. So John Wesley Shipp can't have been cast yet. But his sexuality is irrelevant - he was cast as Henry Allen and Jay Garrick because he was Barry on the 1990 Flash series.

[kcekada]

Wasn't it in 2011 when Alan was rebooted as a a gay man? That's before the current Flash TV show started. It's a year before Arrow even started. So John Wesley Shipp can't have been cast yet. But his sexuality is irrelevant - he was cast as Henry Allen and Jay Garrick because he was Barry on the 1990 Flash series.

Oh, I don't think it was that long ago. My perception of recent events has been forever skewed thanks to Covid, but I would guess Alan was outed within the past 5 years.

Okay, did a quick fact check. Golden Age Alan Scott just came out in 2021. The Alan Scott of the Earth 2 series was a new character of the same name -- and he was gay. Honestly, I forgot that series even existed.

[HsssH]

Earth-2 book, at the time, was clearly supposed to replace classic JSA for good so it wasn't just a different character with the same name.

[Triniking1234]

Earth-2 was pretty good until it was all doom and gloom.

Also Johnny Quick is that guy from All-Star Squadron with the Superman-lite powers, right? And Johnny Thunder is the guy with the genie?

[Will Evans]

The way I see it, at the time DC was going to get rid of their legacy heroes and that would have meant losing some gay characters like Obsidian/Todd Rice. So they made Alan/GL gay so that even if they lost a gay character the number of gay characters still remain the same.

If the story was about a long time JSA character coming out to their spouse then my choice would be either Johnny Quick or Jay Garrick. The main question is what happens to their spouses after one of them comes out? Do they just serve as an aggrieved antagonist character and then disappear into limbo? I don't want Joan to disappear into limbo. I think it could work with Johnny Quick. Nothing I've read has made me feel for them as a pairing and with Jesse being around, that ensures Libby would still have an important role.

I think Ted Grant could still work. He doesn't have any major romance arc. His previous relationships that resulted in Jake and the baby kidnapped by Yellow Wasp can always be retconned as him being in denial like George Michael and trying to convince himself that he was not gay. Maybe Hippolyta helped him realize that he was straight back in WW2 and even acted as his beard since she would have been more open minded about this stuff than anyone else from the era. Maybe it was the way Johns wrote it, but I have never been too keen on the way Ted was portrayed as a playa, just laying them and dumping them felt at odds with the gruff father figure relationship he had with so many other DC characters.

Nah. Being a playa is what distinguishes Wildcat from the other surviving golden agers. Heck, even among the ones that died, he was unique in that regard.

[Triniking1234]

The only Wildcat relationships I know about are Hipployta and Dinah's mum but I'm not even sure how canon those are.