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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil1 View Post
    Since they're basically nonexistent/that he'll be horrible, I am pretty sure he won't disappoint. He's one of those writers who doesn't 'get' Spider-Man, like Slott and all of the BND brain trust (Waid is probably the worst offender though) who think it's a humor book about a kid. I, and others, see it as a tragedy, about the progression of a man's life. He may have super powers, but in the end of the day he's just a person who ages and grows like us.

    To say something nice, the one issue he wrote I really did like was his J Jonah 'Behind the Mustache' issue. And then Waid had to ruin it by making it Jonah's stepfather, because he REALLY thought it was hilarious giving Aunt May an old boy toy. No one got more mileage out of Jay Jameson that Slott though, who dropped the phrase 'cousin by marriage' every chance he got (cringe). I didn't think it was that interesting because Jameson Sr. was decent. Might as well bring Lubensky back. It's no surprise he was killed off as it presented zero story ideas- having May shack up with the original abusive father Wells presented. How does Peter solve that; two generations of Jameson putting upon both his identities.
    I'm confused, what was the problem with May marrying Jay?

    I mean, the one who abused Jonah, was his uncle, the brother of Jay

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    BND level writing.
    See I actually wouldn't mind that actually.

    A big part of the issue with Amazing, for me anyway, is it feels like for the past decade or so its felt like the writer on board has had to have this massive mission statement of a pitch for the series. Like its not enough to just tell these episodic stories with big events for the anniversary issues, now it feels like there must always been some longform arc constantly being built up to. I know Zdarsky alluded to this being the reason why he turned down the offer to write Amazing, because he had no big pitch for the series.

    Spencer put all his eggs in the basket that was Kindred. And the Zodiac arc that Slott had going really felt like him "forcing" it.
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEchidna View Post
    See I actually wouldn't mind that actually.

    A big part of the issue with Amazing, for me anyway, is it feels like for the past decade or so its felt like the writer on board has had to have this massive mission statement of a pitch for the series. Like its not enough to just tell these episodic stories with big events for the anniversary issues, now it feels like there must always been some longform arc constantly being built up to. I know Zdarsky alluded to this being the reason why he turned down the offer to write Amazing, because he had no big pitch for the series.

    Spencer put all his eggs in the basket that was Kindred. And the Zodiac arc that Slott had going really felt like him "forcing" it.
    I think the issue is more that the quality of writing and characterization in the BND era didn't hold up as well (and was fairly inconsistent) and that seems to be the case with Wells retaking the reins as it were.

    I personally don't need some big mystery, arc, or event to drive the book, but I also don't need Peter being an unlikable and unsympathetic screw-up or everybody being down on him. Or some shock value MJ twist.

  4. #19
    Incredible Member Mercwmouth12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the issue is more that the quality of writing and characterization in the BND era didn't hold up as well (and was fairly inconsistent) and that seems to be the case with Wells retaking the reins as it were.

    I personally don't need some big mystery, arc, or event to drive the book, but I also don't need Peter being an unlikable and unsympathetic screw-up or everybody being down on him. Or some shock value MJ twist.
    Entire run doesn't sound like it's writers choice and all Lowe guided and will ultimately fail because fans will be turned off by the nonsense

  5. #20
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercwmouth12 View Post
    Entire run doesn't sound like it's writers choice and all Lowe guided and will ultimately fail because fans will be turned off by the nonsense
    Sometimes I wonder why Marvel even hires writers for ASM when editorial is clearly calling the shots.

  6. #21
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Sometimes I wonder why Marvel even hires writers for ASM when editorial is clearly calling the shots.
    I feel like Spencer got to do most of what he wanted to do in the first half of his run up until they had to really dive into Kindred. I'm not sure if something happened or if there's been a shift in how involved Lowe is (I feel like he similarly ran the X-Men into the ground) but I could be wrong.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercwmouth12 View Post
    Entire run doesn't sound like it's writers choice and all Lowe guided and will ultimately fail because fans will be turned off by the nonsense
    I have a different view on Lowe. I think he's there to get the books out on time - which he does quite well - and that's it. I think he lets the writers do pretty much what they want and only reins them in when he's asked to by people above him (e.g. Kindred - you can practically see the tire skid marks where the story was forced to brake and then go in a different direction). I know Beyond was supposedly his idea, but the actual story is too disjointed and tonally dissonant to be one person's dictated perspective.

    I actually believe the books would be better if there was a strong editorial editor in the chair, instead of a strong production editor - readers may not like the editor's take, but at least the stories and characters would be more consistent and there wouldn't be reader whiplash every time a new writer appears.

    Moving to the topic: what do I expect from Wells? Jury is still out. He writes better dialogue than Slott, and all the Tombstone/gang war scenes were enjoyable. I liked his take on Aunt May so far, too. I expect his run to be a smoother read than Slott.

    But ASM #1 was also overly reliant on gimmicky mystery box that needed the characters working overtime to speak elliptically and obtusely to work; gave the reader shocks instead of storytelling; and depended on the readers' already earned fondness for the characters instead of trying to earn reader engagement and indentification on its own merits. He also returned Peter to whiny manbaby who can't pull his thumb out of his tights without direction, so not really looking forward to BND/Slottered Peter 2.0. Also, Wells has a history of misery porn (Shed; the dead babies in Hellions plus the destruction of Kwannon's daughter; Venom psychologically torturing MJ and then slamming her against the wall in Dark Origins) so I'm hoping but not holding my breath he doesn't engage in his self-indulgent theatrics of violence.
    Last edited by TinkerSpider; 05-24-2022 at 12:23 PM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    I have a different view on Lowe. I think he's there to get the books out on time - which he does quite well - and that's it. I think he lets the writers do pretty much what they want and only reins them in when he's asked to by people above him (e.g. Kindred - you can practically see the tire skid marks where the story was forced to brake and then go in a different direction). I know Beyond was supposedly his idea, but the actual story is too disjointed and tonally dissonant to be one person's dictated perspective.

    I actually believe the books would be better if there was a strong editorial editor in the chair, instead of a strong production editor - readers may not like the editor's take, but at least the stories and characters would be more consistent and there wouldn't be reader whiplash every time a new writer appears.

    Moving to the topic: what do I expect from Wells? Jury is still out. He writes better dialogue than Slott, and all the Tombstone/gang war scenes were enjoyable. I liked his take on Aunt May so far, too. I expect his run to be a smoother read than Slott.

    But ASM #1 was also overly reliant on gimmicky mystery box that needed the characters working overtime to speak elliptically and obtusely to work; gave the reader shocks instead of storytelling; and depended on the readers' already earned fondness for the characters instead of trying to earn reader engagement and indentification on its own merits. He also returned Peter to whiny manbaby who can't pull his thumb out of his tights without direction, so not really looking forward to BND/Slottered Peter 2.0. Also, Wells has a history of misery porn (Shed; the dead babies in Hellions plus the destruction of Kwannon's daughter; Venom psychologically torturing MJ and then slamming her against the wall in Dark Origins) so I'm hoping but not holding my breath he doesn't engage in his self-indulgent theatrics of violence.
    Would you put Wacker above Lowe?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Would you put Wacker above Lowe?
    Honestly?

    I would. Wacker should never be allowed to post on social media or interact with readers in any capacity IMO - Lowe’s professionalism is very much appreciated - but Wacker managed to keep Slott’s worst tendencies checked. There was a noticeable drop off in storytelling quality once he left.

    And BND at least tried to tell (mostly) fun stories. It leaned far too hard on giving the marriage the finger and erasing anything positive about MJ & Peter’s relationship while regressing Peter to a manbaby, but I put that down to sr editorial making their iron mandate clear (all one has to do is read Brevoort’s nonsense “manifesto” to see that status was artificially imposed by Q & B).
    Last edited by TinkerSpider; 05-24-2022 at 02:16 PM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    But ASM #1 was also overly reliant on gimmicky mystery box that needed the characters working overtime to speak elliptically and obtusely to work; gave the reader shocks instead of storytelling; and depended on the readers' already earned fondness for the characters instead of trying to earn reader engagement and indentification on its own merits. He also returned Peter to whiny manbaby who can't pull his thumb out of his tights without direction, so not really looking forward to BND/Slottered Peter 2.0. Also, Wells has a history of misery porn (Shed; the dead babies in Hellions plus the destruction of Kwannon's daughter; Venom psychologically torturing MJ and then slamming her against the wall in Dark Origins) so I'm hoping but not holding my breath he doesn't engage in his self-indulgent theatrics of violence.
    I think you were the one who suggested that Paul dude (I think it's Paul?) would eventually eat the kids, so keep that in mind .
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    I have a different view on Lowe. I think he's there to get the books out on time - which he does quite well - and that's it. I think he lets the writers do pretty much what they want and only reins them in when he's asked to by people above him (e.g. Kindred - you can practically see the tire skid marks where the story was forced to brake and then go in a different direction). I know Beyond was supposedly his idea, but the actual story is too disjointed and tonally dissonant to be one person's dictated perspective.

    I actually believe the books would be better if there was a strong editorial editor in the chair, instead of a strong production editor - readers may not like the editor's take, but at least the stories and characters would be more consistent and there wouldn't be reader whiplash every time a new writer appears.

    Moving to the topic: what do I expect from Wells? Jury is still out. He writes better dialogue than Slott, and all the Tombstone/gang war scenes were enjoyable. I liked his take on Aunt May so far, too. I expect his run to be a smoother read than Slott.

    But ASM #1 was also overly reliant on gimmicky mystery box that needed the characters working overtime to speak elliptically and obtusely to work; gave the reader shocks instead of storytelling; and depended on the readers' already earned fondness for the characters instead of trying to earn reader engagement and indentification on its own merits. He also returned Peter to whiny manbaby who can't pull his thumb out of his tights without direction, so not really looking forward to BND/Slottered Peter 2.0. Also, Wells has a history of misery porn (Shed; the dead babies in Hellions plus the destruction of Kwannon's daughter; Venom psychologically torturing MJ and then slamming her against the wall in Dark Origins) so I'm hoping but not holding my breath he doesn't engage in his self-indulgent theatrics of violence.
    And for misery porn, look not further than hos last treatment of Ben Reilly

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I think you were the one who suggested that Paul dude (I think it's Paul?) would eventually eat the kids, so keep that in mind .
    Yeah, I hope Wells will keep his self-indulgent trauma fixation in check.

    Do I expect he will?

    Nah.

    (Can totally see Paul eventually be revealed to be a shapeshifting alien who eats their young, however... )

  13. #28
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    I expect it to be just fine.
    I still need to read Helions fully, but what I did read I enjoyed a lot.
    It may be the best run since JSM, but that's really as far as I see it going. The Slott era was... fine. It had some great highs, Superior was fantastic and I did enjoy Big Time, but everything after that was pretty hit or miss.
    The Spencer era started off good, but it lost track once he had to back track on what he was doing.

    So yeah, I expect it to be fine. At this point, I'm reading Spider-Man more because I enjoy the character, and even at its worst, I still enjoy reading the book, so I'll probably enjoy it regardless if I like it or not.

  14. #29
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    I expect the villains to have decent characterization and for Wells to portray some of them with the complexity they've sorely needed to regain. Anything involving the heroes will leave much to be desired. There will be at least one reference to a dead child.

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    Yeah, I hope Wells will keep his self-indulgent trauma fixation in check.

    Do I expect he will?

    Nah.
    I think that even if he were willing to keep it in check, I think editorial would suggest for him to not do so, 'cause if the first issue is any hint, they're more interested in shock factor over actual story telling.

    I could be wrong about that though, but if it improves afterwards, man that first issue is a shit start...

    (Can totally see Paul eventually be revealed to be a shapeshifting alien who eats their young, however... )
    A lizard-like alien perhaps? .

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunala View Post
    I expect the villains to have decent characterization and for Wells to portray some of them with the complexity they've sorely needed to regain. Anything involving the heroes will leave much to be desired. There will be at least one reference to a dead child.
    Honestly, if only the villains get alright characterization, he might as well be writing a second volume of Superior Foes.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

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