The Return of Pa and Ma

[manwhohaseverything]

I honestly think a lot people really just think they should be dead because Morrison told them Superman was better without them. "Morrison said the golden age Superman was the best so that is what I believe too now"

Morrison,byrne,all the superman writers or whatever say alot of things..Morrison thinks a savior concept is redeemable.I for one think "burn it down".

[Vordan]

I honestly think a lot people really just think they should be dead because Morrison told them Superman was better without them. "Morrison said the golden age Superman was the best so that is what I believe too now"

Conversely I think most people who want the Kents alive just think that because Byrne said they should be and it was the status quo they first read when they were kids.

[Jim Kelly]

I honestly think a lot people really just think they should be dead because Morrison told them Superman was better without them. "Morrison said the golden age Superman was the best so that is what I believe too now"

Honestly? I'm sure there are some readers who got into comics after Grant Morrison started making his pronouncements and a lot of those might have that belief for that reason. But that's a relatively small pool of people. It seems like you're selling many of your fellow Superman readers short. But you're entitled to your opinion and I'll try not to be offended.

[Riv86672]

Conversely I think most people who want the Kents alive just think that because Byrne said they should be and it was the status quo they first read when they were kids.

^^^I grew up Kent-less and never had any burning desire to have them resurrected.
That said I was almost twenty when Byrne brought the Kents back, and I really enjoyed their appearances. I think it added a nice dimension to Clark’s character; it made him more human.

Not sure who decided Clark should live such an isolated life (dead planet, two sets of dead parents, secret identity that for some reason required him to live like a monk…his hero HQ was even named the ‘Fortress of Solitude’ because you know, what a guy w. no family/girlfriend/social life really needs is a place to be alone…) but when Byrne flipped the script on many of the status quo concepts (High School jock, nerdy but good looking adult who actually went out w. women, and yeah bringing back the Kents) it made Clark a lot more enjoyable and relatable to me.

[The World]

I honestly think a lot people really just think they should be dead because Morrison told them Superman was better without them. "Morrison said the golden age Superman was the best so that is what I believe too now"

Man Smashes the Clan wasn't that long ago. Just admit the Golden Age Superman was an actually inspirational figure and the modern Superman is nothing more than a figure head jobber. Siegel and Shuster were able to relatively easily what the modern writers stuggled with and largely failed to do for decades: Create and inspirational figure. Any writer worth their salt recognizes that.

[Iopy]

But wanting the Kents alive does boil down to "that's what it was when I started reading" (80s/90s) in most cases.

I started during the early Silver Age, and alive or dead I prefer consistency. What I don’t want is an “Everthing happened!” situation like with so much else right now where they become Schrödinger’s Parents, alive or dead depending on what you might find when you open the current editorial and writing whim box.

[BBally]

I’m more neutral on the Kents being alive or dead discourse among the fandom.

In my opinion, regardless of whether the Kents are alive or dead, Superman is a hero because of their lives and teachings not because of how they died.

[Riv86672]

…Superman is a hero because of their lives and teachings...

^^^Agreed (It’s why I hate how Pa Kent was portrayed in the 2013 MoS movie but that’s a whole other topic), though from a story telling point of view I like that Clark and Lois have the Kents around to visit and talk to.
Superman has one of the best supporting casts in comics, and having the Kents around is icing on the cake.

[SiegePerilous02]

I started during the early Silver Age, and alive or dead I prefer consistency. What I don’t want is an “Everthing happened!” situation like with so much else right now where they become Schrödinger’s Parents, alive or dead depending on what you might find when you open the current editorial and writing whim box.

I think consistency flew out the window when Byrne decided they should be alive after 50 years of them being dead, as well as altering his backstory to cut out a huge chunk of it (Superboy).

While acting like it was the same character from the older stories while others had their same history

[Zero Hunter]

^^^I grew up Kent-less and never had any burning desire to have them resurrected.
That said I was almost twenty when Byrne brought the Kents back, and I really enjoyed their appearances. I think it added a nice dimension to Clark’s character; it made him more human.

Not sure who decided Clark should live such an isolated life (dead planet, two sets of dead parents, secret identity that for some reason required him to live like a monk…his hero HQ was even named the ‘Fortress of Solitude’ because you know, what a guy w. no family/girlfriend/social life really needs is a place to be alone…) but when Byrne flipped the script on many of the status quo concepts (High School jock, nerdy but good looking adult who actually went out w. women, and yeah bringing back the Kents) it made Clark a lot more enjoyable and relatable to me.

That is the thing with me too. I have read both versions and I just vastly prefer them being alive. Them being alive adds more than them being dead in my eyes.

[John Venus]

I'm happy with how they've been used.

I think it adds to Clark's character when he has people like the Kents to ground him and whom he can talk to openly and honestly.

If you're going to kill them off, I rather it just be Johnathan Kent like in the first Superman movie. Clark needs to have at least one parent whom he can talk to.

[SiegePerilous02]

^^^I grew up Kent-less and never had any burning desire to have them resurrected.
That said I was almost twenty when Byrne brought the Kents back, and I really enjoyed their appearances. I think it added a nice dimension to Clark’s character; it made him more human.

Not sure who decided Clark should live such an isolated life (dead planet, two sets of dead parents, secret identity that for some reason required him to live like a monk…his hero HQ was even named the ‘Fortress of Solitude’ because you know, what a guy w. no family/girlfriend/social life really needs is a place to be alone…) but when Byrne flipped the script on many of the status quo concepts (High School jock, nerdy but good looking adult who actually went out w. women, and yeah bringing back the Kents) it made Clark a lot more enjoyable and relatable to me.

It's not like Clark was ever completely alone pre-Crisis. He kept people at arm's length, but Jimmy was still his pal, he still had Krypto, Pete was his childhood friend who was in on his secret, he hung out with the Legion of Superheroes all the time, he had college friends, Batman and Robin were practically the "Three Musketeers" with him, he eventually had Kara, he got along with all his co-workers, etc.

Feeling like an outsider and struggling with loneliness (even if it's largely self inflicted in his case, which adds some nuances to his psychology that wasn't there in later takes) are very human things. Byrne's changes made his life more "perfect," which really gives more ammo to the people who think he's too bland and perfect and doesn't struggle with anything.

That is the thing with me too. I have read both versions and I just vastly prefer them being alive. Them being alive adds more than them being dead in my eyes.

It works in reverse as well, though. My first exposures to the character were the Dean Cain series and STAS where the Kents were alive, and that was the case in continuity whenever I sampled the comics here and there. Even post-IC, Jonathan didn't die until well into Clark's marriage and Martha was still alive. I prefer the classic set-up of them being dead, because it adds more to Clark's character than them being alive does.

[ironman2978]

It's not like Clark was ever completely alone pre-Crisis. He kept people at arm's length, but Jimmy was still his pal, he still had Krypto, Pete was his childhood friend who was in on his secret, he hung out with the Legion of Superheroes all the time, he had college friends, Batman and Robin were practically the "Three Musketeers" with him, he eventually had Kara, he got along with all his co-workers, etc.

Feeling like an outsider and struggling with loneliness (even if it's largely self inflicted in his case, which adds some nuances to his psychology that wasn't there in later takes) are very human things. Byrne's changes made his life more "perfect," which really gives more ammo to the people who think he's too bland and perfect and doesn't struggle with anything.



It works in reverse as well, though. My first exposures to the character were the Dean Cain series and STAS where the Kents were alive, and that was the case in continuity whenever I sampled the comics here and there. Even post-IC, Jonathan didn't die until well into Clark's marriage and Martha was still alive. I prefer the classic set-up of them being dead, because it adds more to Clark's character than them being alive does.

This. My first exposure was STAS, Superman Birthright and Smallville, and I prefer the classic "Orphan twice over". I feel like Byrne Superman was too forced in trying to make him human, but it felt counterproductive on every level. STAS perfected the ideas Byrne had, and arguably some of his best ideas weren't even his. Bronze Age Clark dated and had a social life. (Heck, he even had a back up title,"The Private Life of Clark Kent"). I think making him a jock, only becoming a hero because he found out his adopted, etc. just made me feel like I couldn't connect with him on just about any level.

I was a big fan of the immigrant struggling to find his place in the world, trying to find his way in the world, or a woman he loves failing to see he potential but when he becomes confident and self assured in himself. I think even further than just feeling outsider trying to fit in, he had moments of empathy (his relationship with Lex Luthor), moments of self doubt and guilt. I think people associated Superman was more alien, but he was honestly very much still human. The idea someone constantly trying to live up to the standard of perfection he set for himself is very much human.If the character was allowed to mean anything else beyond "nice strong Kansas boy" then you'd get something to work with.


I don't feel like the Kents are the icing on the cake, when they are multiple people can serve as the confident and supportive guide for Clark in multiple ways (Jimmy Olsen serving more as Clark's best friend, Pete Ross, Lana, Perry, Lois, etc).

[Jim Kelly]

It's interesting that I prefer Ma and Pa Kent passed away, but I want Barry Allen's parents alive and happy (at least until after he becomes the Flash)--rather than the other way around.

I also prefer that Wally West's parents had the stable and supportive home life they had in "Dear Mom and Dad," THE NEW TEEN TITANS 20 (June 1982) and not the train wreck due to retcons. In fact, I like the way it used to be for most of the characters and their families.

I prefer that Diana was moulded from clay by a loving matriarch and not the product of rape by one of the most patriarchal gods in all of mythology. I like to think of Dr. Thomas Wayne and Martha Wayne as humanitarians out to improve the lives of people in their city and not corrupt members of organized crime. I think Barbara Gordon should be the biological daughter of James W. Gordon and his wife, Barbara Kean Gordon, without the messy continuity changes. I want Mary to be Billy Batson's sister, not an unrelated orphan.

Latter day writers re-arranged the deck chairs, just for something to do, I guess. So they can say they put in a day's work. But have they actually improved anything through these changes? Don't get me wrong--a lot of classic comics had serious problems with their continuity that needed repair. Some precise surgery to remove the bad bits would have been a good thing. But they didn't go at continuity with a scalpel or a laser--they went at it with a chainsaw.

[The Frog Bros]

I’m more neutral on the Kents being alive or dead discourse among the fandom.

In my opinion, regardless of whether the Kents are alive or dead, Superman is a hero because of their lives and teachings not because of how they died.

Agreed. This can be shown regardless of the status of his parents, but I personally skew slightly more towards them being dead. I think it's more impactful when Clark is looking back or remembering their teachings and life lessons rather than having them give advice in present day.

But as The Dude says, "that's just, like, my opinion, man."