Who do you feel deserves a movie more-Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan) or Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers)

[JJ Fiegel]

A TV show's not a movie. It's also worth noting that Peggy Carter's getting an 8-episode season during Agents of SHIELD's hiatus, and Luke and Jessica are going to be on Netflix, rather than network TV.

And the other three are "in consideration" for movies. Doesn't mean they'll happen. And the question remains: How much time are we supposed to give Marvel? Another 5 years? 10? How long until we call bullshit?

Yes, a TV show is not a movie. But TV is where it's at right now. Look at all the big Hollywood people, including writers and directors, going to TV. TV is the thing right now, and I'd wager that TV is where we're going to see the lesser characters (as in less popular). This is a good thing as it can only be beneficial to these characters. We're going to get to really see these characters, really get to know them. We have 13 episodes for each, and then the crossover.

The shows being on Netflix and not ABC will only improve the quality. And, I'd bet that more people in the target demo watch Netflix over network television.

I'd say that at least one of the three have a good chance of having a movie in Phrase 3. We have a ton of movies that aren't announced yet, and I believe word on the street is that Marvel wants to do one new IP and one old IP a year. 15 is Ant-Man, 16 is Strange, and then what? We know Cap 3 is 2016, GotG2 is 2017, and Thor 3 likely being 2018 and Avengers 3 2019. That's two, maybe three new movies. One of those is likely to be Widow or Carol or Panther, and I'd wager that at least two of them will have movies.

Carol has been given a big push. Even when her series didn't sell well they relaunched it and gave it a spinoff. I'd say a movie is definitely in her future.

[Myetche]

Carol has been given a big push. Even when her series didn't sell well they relaunched it and gave it a spinoff.

Only because Marvel doesn't want the rights to the name "Captain Marvel" relapsing back to DC. And the spinoff is actually outselling and outdoing the original series on every level.

Heck, at the rate she's going, Kamala may end up becoming the Inhuman answer to Wolverine.

[dragonmp93]

Yes, a TV show is not a movie. But TV is where it's at right now. Look at all the big Hollywood people, including writers and directors, going to TV. TV is the thing right now, and I'd wager that TV is where we're going to see the lesser characters (as in less popular). This is a good thing as it can only be beneficial to these characters. We're going to get to really see these characters, really get to know them. We have 13 episodes for each, and then the crossover.

The shows being on Netflix and not ABC will only improve the quality. And, I'd bet that more people in the target demo watch Netflix over network television.

I'd say that at least one of the three have a good chance of having a movie in Phrase 3. We have a ton of movies that aren't announced yet, and I believe word on the street is that Marvel wants to do one new IP and one old IP a year. 15 is Ant-Man, 16 is Strange, and then what? We know Cap 3 is 2016, GotG2 is 2017, and Thor 3 likely being 2018 and Avengers 3 2019. That's two, maybe three new movies. One of those is likely to be Widow or Carol or Panther, and I'd wager that at least two of them will have movies.

Carol has been given a big push. Even when her series didn't sell well they relaunched it and gave it a spinoff. I'd say a movie is definitely in her future.

But a tv show is still not a movie; after all is better having representation and visibility over quality, or in other words, summer blockbuster kills non-network tv show.

[Pat Thomas]

Yeah yeah, find the right story. But why is it that female and minority leads don't fit the story they want to tell? They fit Ant-Man into their plans to appease Edgar Wright. They fit Guardians of the Galaxy into their plans. They're fitting Dr. Strange into their plans. They're fitting Inhumans into their plans. How long is the audience supposed to wait for a female or minority lead to fit Marvel's plans? 2018? 2020? 2028? How long can Marvel put it off before we call bullshit? Marvel Studio's made the conscious decision to have their plans revolve around white men. That's not just "the way it happened" - they chose which characters to use, and they chose to exclusively give the lead roles to white men.

And beyond that, this is an issue that's not going to go away. The longer they remain silent, the worse they look. They could go out tomorrow and say, "Yes, there will definitely, absolutely, 100% be at least one female- or minority-led movie released within the next 5 years." The people criticizing them would accept that. That's all Marvel needs to say. But they won't say that. And there could be any number of reasons they don't say it, but frankly, until they prove otherwise, I'm assuming it's because they actually don't have any plans for those movies right now. I'm going to assume Hawkeye stands a better chance of getting a solo movie at this point than Captain Marvel does.


I mean a woman getting top billing. The woman being front and centre in the teaser, her name being in the biggest letters and in the first slot. Her being the primary driver of the story.

Right now I think they are trying to make movies that appeal to the Action/Adventure/Thriller demographic, which is their primary customer base in the first place. And that just happens
to be mainly white guys, just like their comic readers. They are building a reputation that they know exactly what they're doing, and the movies so far have been liked by all different
demographics. But the audience is still 80-90% white dudes at most venues. There are some women there on their own, but you can tell by looking that the others are there because their
significant other has drug them there. They may like the movie after seeing it, but most of them look like they would really rather be anywhere else. These people certainly aren't going to
meet up for a girls' night out to the next Marvel movie. It would be a different story if Marvel movies attracted women to them like Twilight or something, but they don't. They attract men
that way. So why go out of the way for such a small percentage of the female audience and run the risk of pissing off the largest portion of customers by making a movie nobody really
wants? I didn't see each installment of Twilight progressively do things to draw in more male viewers, and that's fine. Why does every single thing have to be for every single person on
this earth anyway?

[JJ Fiegel]

But a tv show is still not a movie; after all is better having representation and visibility over quality, or in other words, summer blockbuster kills non-network tv show.

Yes, but who's to say that TV isn't like that? Look at Breaking Bad, look at the Sopranos: these are huge. Yes they don't make the money that movies do, and less people do watch TV than movies.

Look at it like this: million of people have Netflix. Millions of people watch Marvel movies. These shows have potential to be huge.

People expected Guardians to flop. It's now made more money than Cap 2. Let's not count these shows out yet.

[Xalfrea]

As much as I adore Kamala, she's not ready to have her own movie. At least, not yet. Like what was said, Carol has a lot more going for her. Give Kamala more time and another few years before talks of seeing her in a movie will ever happen.

That being said, I certainly think Kamala should at least make a guest appearance in the current Marvel animated shows. Or heck, if the Netflix series will take off, Kamala can have one on there. Kamala so far is one of those characters that's just fine on her own and doesn't need the greater Marvel universe crashing onto her. Heck if her latest issues are any indication, she'll be crossing paths with the Inhumans soon. Let her current run finish its course or have a few more and another few years before she gets a big-screen adaptation.

I wouldn't object to name-dropping her though. Or, if a Carol movie will ever happen, have a Kamala easter egg or cameo.

[Tiamatty]

Yeah, because Gamora, Jane Foster and Black Widow had as much lines and screentime as Tony Stark's one-night-stands.

They're still not the ones getting top billing. They're still second-fiddle. They're still supporting the men.

[Tiamatty]

Yes, a TV show is not a movie. But TV is where it's at right now. Look at all the big Hollywood people, including writers and directors, going to TV. TV is the thing right now, and I'd wager that TV is where we're going to see the lesser characters (as in less popular). This is a good thing as it can only be beneficial to these characters. We're going to get to really see these characters, really get to know them. We have 13 episodes for each, and then the crossover.

The shows being on Netflix and not ABC will only improve the quality. And, I'd bet that more people in the target demo watch Netflix over network television.

I'm not expecting Luke Cage costumes to be a big hit the Halloween after that show debuts. If Black Panther got a movie, those costumes would be a hit. The shows may do reasonably well, but they're not likely to be the huge pop culture hits that movies would be.

I'd say that at least one of the three have a good chance of having a movie in Phrase 3. We have a ton of movies that aren't announced yet, and I believe word on the street is that Marvel wants to do one new IP and one old IP a year. 15 is Ant-Man, 16 is Strange, and then what? We know Cap 3 is 2016, GotG2 is 2017, and Thor 3 likely being 2018 and Avengers 3 2019. That's two, maybe three new movies. One of those is likely to be Widow or Carol or Panther, and I'd wager that at least two of them will have movies.

Carol has been given a big push. Even when her series didn't sell well they relaunched it and gave it a spinoff. I'd say a movie is definitely in her future.

2017 will probably be Inhumans (and I'm expecting Black Bolt to still be the lead there, because even a white guy who doesn't talk is better, in Hollywood's mind, than a woman). So 2018 will be the very earliest a woman or minority could get a solo film, and honestly? I would not be the least bit surprised if they still didn't do it. If they still found yet another white guy to give a movie to, instead. Or a group with a white guy at the head.

Right now I think they are trying to make movies that appeal to the Action/Adventure/Thriller demographic, which is their primary customer base in the first place. And that just happens to be mainly white guys, just like their comic readers. They are building a reputation that they know exactly what they're doing, and the movies so far have been liked by all different demographics. But the audience is still 80-90% white dudes at most venues. There are some women there on their own, but you can tell by looking that the others are there because their significant other has drug them there. They may like the movie after seeing it, but most of them look like they would really rather be anywhere else. These people certainly aren't going to meet up for a girls' night out to the next Marvel movie. It would be a different story if Marvel movies attracted women to them like Twilight or something, but they don't. They attract men that way. So why go out of the way for such a small percentage of the female audience and run the risk of pissing off the largest portion of customers by making a movie nobody really wants? I didn't see each installment of Twilight progressively do things to draw in more male viewers, and that's fine. Why does every single thing have to be for every single person on this earth anyway?

That's bullshit. First of all, 40% of comic readers are women, and 50% of movie-goers are women. Actually, last year, it was 52%. More than half of movie-goers are women, and Marvel's still stalling on actually getting a female-led movie greenlit.

But fine, let's say that most of those women are there on dates. The Hunger Games: Catching Fire was a huge hit, and I don't think it was guys dragging girls there. It was an action movie with a female lead, and women flocked to watch it. But you think that a Captain Marvel movie wouldn't get that reaction?

On top of that . . . Why is it that women and minorities are expected to relate to the white male protagonists, but there's no expectation that white men can relate to female and minority protagonists? Captain America is someone we're all supposed to relate to, but Captain Marvel isn't? I see that argument brought up in every discussion on diversity, to explain why diversity basically isn't necessary. If women can relate to a male protagonist, then any man who can't relate to a female protagonist is just a douchebag anyway. You really think there are that many douchebags in the movie-going audience?

[zoddguts]

Kamala has existed for all of 2 minutes. Why would they make a movie out of her?

The fact that she's far more interesting than Carol has ever been for decades? Best thing Carol has ever done was be in a coma giving Rogue her Super strength and flight powers, also giving Kamala inspiration to be a hero which turned out to be a far more interesting character than Carol ever has been. How many good stories has Carol been on her own? Yeah.... mean while Kamala (Ms Marvel) has had already 7 great issues. Carol's Captain Marvel comic is heading to cancellation numbers (near sub 20K) while Ms. Marvel comic sales actually went up and it's not because she's still flavor of the month but because her comic is actually great.

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/29385.html

Because the protagonist is essentially a fan insert character?

You wish she was only that, it's a well written series that has gotten great reviews. Captain Marvel on the other hand continues to be a mediocre run with it's comic sales dying rather quickly.

CAPTAIN MARVEL #5 23,666

[JJ Fiegel]

I'm not expecting Luke Cage costumes to be a big hit the Halloween after that show debuts. If Black Panther got a movie, those costumes would be a hit. The shows may do reasonably well, but they're not likely to be the huge pop culture hits that movies would be.


2017 will probably be Inhumans (and I'm expecting Black Bolt to still be the lead there, because even a white guy who doesn't talk is better, in Hollywood's mind, than a woman). So 2018 will be the very earliest a woman or minority could get a solo film, and honestly? I would not be the least bit surprised if they still didn't do it. If they still found yet another white guy to give a movie to, instead. Or a group with a white guy at the head.

To be fair, Luke Cage's costume isn't very exciting. Or cool. That's a costume you make when you want to save money. Daredevil and Iron Fist will have costumes. Probably Jessica too. I'd also wager that it's more acceptable for a black man to dress as Captain America than a white man to dress as Luke Cage. Black Panther's would be a hit because it's a cool costume. Medium of choice has nothing to do with the costumes.

Black Bolt will be the male lead of the Inhumans movie (I say this is coming in 2019 because I think greenlighting this movie was determined by the success of Guardians) because he is the King. He will most likely get top billing because the actor will be of higher caliber / fame than the actress playing Medusa. I'd wager that Mesdusa will have equal screentime to BB. He can't talk. Medusa will have a large role. She seems to be getting a big push - featured on the Avengers Now! promotional poster. Say Vin Disel is BB and Hendricks is Medusa. Disel gets top billing because he is bigger. This is how it works. Marvel and disney are not trying to oppress / put down women; they are trying to make money.

the fact is, the most popular and well known super heroes are straight white men (outside of Wonder Woman). Disney wants to make as much money as possible, so they are using these characters first. You make a quality movie with Captain America, then you make one with Hulk, then you make one with Thor, etc. People then trust your brand. You make Guardians of the Galaxy. Diversity is coming. Again, the Marvel Cinematic Universe is young - six years old. We have given the major players their movies, and now we are starting to build past that. People want a Black Widow movie. She had a great presence in Cap 2. there are rumors of Carol being in Avengers 2, obviously leading into a movie for her.

The state of things suck right now, but it's improving every day. Progress takes time. You don't start your MCU with Panther and Carol. It's been six years at two movies a year with sequels to popular movies thrown in to make money. We're going to three movies a year soon. Their time is coming.

[KurtW95]

Carol Danvers IS Ms. Marvel.

[Tiamatty]

Black Bolt will be the male lead of the Inhumans movie (I say this is coming in 2019 because I think greenlighting this movie was determined by the success of Guardians) because he is the King. He will most likely get top billing because the actor will be of higher caliber / fame than the actress playing Medusa. I'd wager that Mesdusa will have equal screentime to BB. He can't talk. Medusa will have a large role. She seems to be getting a big push - featured on the Avengers Now! promotional poster. Say Vin Disel is BB and Hendricks is Medusa. Disel gets top billing because he is bigger. This is how it works. Marvel and disney are not trying to oppress / put down women; they are trying to make money.

If they go with a white guy as Black Bolt, and then give him top billing, then to me, that says Marvel doesn't actually give a **** about female leads.

the fact is, the most popular and well known super heroes are straight white men (outside of Wonder Woman). Disney wants to make as much money as possible, so they are using these characters first. You make a quality movie with Captain America, then you make one with Hulk, then you make one with Thor, etc. People then trust your brand. You make Guardians of the Galaxy. Diversity is coming. Again, the Marvel Cinematic Universe is young - six years old. We have given the major players their movies, and now we are starting to build past that. People want a Black Widow movie. She had a great presence in Cap 2. there are rumors of Carol being in Avengers 2, obviously leading into a movie for her.

Yeah, they've made the quality movies with Iron Man, Cap and Thor (not so much Hulk). They're making movies with Ant-Man and Dr. Strange. They made GotG with Peter Quill in the lead role. They've done all that ****. So where the hell is the female-led movie? Where the hell is the minority-led movie? 2018? 2019? 2020? How long are people supposed to wait on this ****?

The state of things suck right now, but it's improving every day. Progress takes time. You don't start your MCU with Panther and Carol. It's been six years at two movies a year with sequels to popular movies thrown in to make money. We're going to three movies a year soon. Their time is coming.

I don't see why you can't do those characters early on. Marvel made the choice to focus on white guys for at least the first 8 years. They could've done Captain Marvel in 2013, or 2014, or 2015, or 2016. They chose not to do that. They could do it in 2017 - we'll see. I'm sceptical, as the indications do lean towards Inhumans being their 2017 "new property" movie. So maybe they could do her in 2018 . . . or maybe they'll go with Adam Warlock.

And again, people say "their time is coming," but when? And no one's actually answered my question of how long audiences are expected to wait before it's acceptable to just call Marvel on their bullshit.

Carol Danvers IS Ms. Marvel.

Nope, I'm pretty sure she's Captain Marvel. Says so on the cover of her book. It's what she's called inside any books she appears in now. Yep, she's Captain Marvel now.

[tg1982]

I voted for Carol, since 1) She's been around longer and there fore has more stories or at least story elements to pull from, and more villains to chose from. 2) I think she is the front runner in Marvel's (I don't want to say it like this, but I can't think of a better way) "woman movement", and 3) Her powers are more screen friendly, I think.

Now with all that said, I absolutely adore Kamala, and love her comic,

Carol, but only because she's better-designed for the kind of grand spectacle movies often have. Kamala (after a few years to get established) would be better off in an animated TV series since she's more focused on personal adventures and low-scale storylines than giant film-epics.

That said, Kamala could easily be the MCU's "Spider-Man" in that she's the optimistic, wisecracking super-teen, but an animated show suits her style better.

This I agree with 100%.

[Sardorim]

Carol, she's been around for so long, is a big name for the Avengers, and is still very relevant in this day in age.

I like Kamala but she shouldn't cut in line before the person who inspired her to be the next Ms. Marvel.

[JJ Fiegel]

If they go with a white guy as Black Bolt, and then give him top billing, then to me, that says Marvel doesn't actually give a **** about female leads.


Yeah, they've made the quality movies with Iron Man, Cap and Thor (not so much Hulk). They're making movies with Ant-Man and Dr. Strange. They made GotG with Peter Quill in the lead role. They've done all that ****. So where the hell is the female-led movie? Where the hell is the minority-led movie? 2018? 2019? 2020? How long are people supposed to wait on this ****?


I don't see why you can't do those characters early on. Marvel made the choice to focus on white guys for at least the first 8 years. They could've done Captain Marvel in 2013, or 2014, or 2015, or 2016. They chose not to do that. They could do it in 2017 - we'll see. I'm sceptical, as the indications do lean towards Inhumans being their 2017 "new property" movie. So maybe they could do her in 2018 . . . or maybe they'll go with Adam Warlock.

And again, people say "their time is coming," but when? And no one's actually answered my question of how long audiences are expected to wait before it's acceptable to just call Marvel on their bullshit.


Nope, I'm pretty sure she's Captain Marvel. Says so on the cover of her book. It's what she's called inside any books she appears in now. Yep, she's Captain Marvel now.

Black Bolt is a white guy though. Seems fair to cast him as such. Black Bolt will get top billing because he will be played by a bigger actor than the actress playing Medusa. Top billing goes to the biggest star to bring in the biggest audience. Everyone loves Vin Diesel. "Vin Diesel is the star? Let's go see this movie."

Peter Quill has been involved in many runs of Guardians of the Galaxy. It seems obvious to cast him in the movie. The reason he is a little more prominent is because he is the human surrogate. Yes, he is another straight white wisecracking man. But he is the only one of the main cast. Rocket and Groot are obviously the breakout characters of the movie. They will have their own movie because of the success of Guardians. I suspect no straight white men will be found in this movie.

The reason you don't start with Carol and Panther is because the casual audience, the one that makes up the most profit, doesn't know who they are. Most people know who Captain America is. Hulk is so well-known that his name is a word people use in English. His name became an actual word. these are characters everyone knows. You make a movie based on them. Guess what? People like it. So you make another. Now your movies are summer events and make a billion dollars. Now people trust your brand. No one will go see Black Panther. But a Marvel's Black Panther movie? After how good Cap and Guardians were? Yes we'll take three tickets and buy the DVD for our collection.

You want to know how long to wait? Wait until Phrase 3. 2018 will be ten years since Iron Man 1. I'd say if Marvel doesn't fill the 2017 or 2018 slot with Black Widow or Panther then they have dropped the ball. Then it's okay to complain. Right now, not enough time has passed. The MCU is still very new. We have 6 IPs so far. 6 and a bunch of sequels.

Marvel is laying the foundation for it's universe. You establish a brand now, and people will trust you when you venture out of their comfort zone. Guardians proved this. And now Marvel can afford to take even greater risks.

And again, next year you have Agent Carter, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage. TV is attracting the big names now, and everyone wants to be a hero now. The time is coming.