CAPTAIN MARVEL (CAROL DANVERS)
MS MARVEL (KAMALA KHAN)
Except the MCU doesn't necessarily have to stick with the comic backstories, and Kamala looks up to all sorts of superheroes and not just Carol. Instead of following a legacy, MCU Kamala could instead create one by taking after the Avengers' inspiration (with or without Carol) and becoming the first Ms. Marvel.
She is Kamala Khan... The Magnificent Ms. Marvel!
What I think is that a moviegoer wants to see a movie that appeals to them, and unfortunately, that has led to the audience being broken down into groups of people. Any movie at
a given theater will have it's own demographic. All the other movies besides superhero movies are not 50/50 male/female, with 50% being other than white and 50% being lgbt. So why
act like the comic book audience is? If there is ever a Northstar movie, I would expect a mostly lgbt crowd. If there is a Ms Marvel or Captain Marvel movie, women might possibly
outnumber the male audience. I think a Black Panther or Luke Cage movie would possibly do great numbers, because I think the black community would support either, and the white
dudes like me would go to see it because it's a Marvel movie, and we like those. But all that is okay. Why would all of those movies need to be tailored for every other group besides
the core fans? That's what you're asking Marvel to start doing now. They will announce a Captain Marvel movie when they are ready, at a time where it has the best chance of success.
What's wrong with that? Just because you don't approve of the comic fan/moviegoer demographic, that doesn't mean it isn't a real thing. Since Marvel is in the business of making
money, they can't just ignore that to make a statement.
I think they should do a movie about both in the same movie. The movie could touch on the Kree and Inhumans elements of their history which would serve as an introduction to The Inhumans movie Horrible I know but I care more about Ms. Marvel thant Capt. Marvel
"Dedra Meero is not just a woman in a men’s world, but a fascist in a world of fascists.” - Denise Gough
In one breath you acknowledge that female- and minority-led movies would likely do well, and in the next you ask why Marvel should do them sooner rather than later.
I'm a straight white guy. I am so over-represented in the movies that it's actually grown boring for me. Meanwhile, women and minorities are relegated to supporting roles. Right now, already, 40% of the audience for these movies is women. The audience for Catching Fire was 54% female. So women clearly want ass-kicking heroines. And the fact that Catching Fire's audience was 46% male suggests that there's no shortage of men who want an ass-kicking women, too. Instead, the next 4 movies, at a bare minimum, will be more men in lead roles. Ant-Man, Dr. Strange and Captain America 3 will all be white male leads. Avengers 3 will be an ensemble, with the white men getting top billing. After that will be Guardians of the Galaxy 2, with an ensemble cast, with the white man getting top billing. Then probably Inhumans, probably with a white male getting top billing. I would guess Thor 3 after that, for another white male lead.
And large numbers of people have noticed this shit. There are tons of people saying, "Hey, Marvel, when the hell do women and minorities get their chance?" Feige's said that Captain Marvel and Black Panther are the movies he gets asked about most. There is a demand for this shit to happen. So never mind tailoring these movies for a specific audience - it's the general audience who wants to see it.
What I'm asking Marvel to do is to say, "Yes, within the next five years, there will be at least one female- or minority-led movie." Their excuses - "We want to do one, but timing and stuff!" - are just excuses.They made time for Dr. Strange. They can damned well make some frigging time for Captain Marvel and Black Panther. Either one of those should've come before Dr. Strange, and I don't give a shit when Strange got referenced in other movies. There was no big call for a Dr. Strange movie, but Marvel still decided that yet another white man was more important than a woman or a person of colour. Right now, they're telling women and people of colour, "Sorry, we actually don't think enough people would go to watch people who look like you."
It's long past time Marvel cut the bullshit, and gives people what they want. The demand is there, so Marvel needs to stop the excuses and get it done.
Tiamatty, would it bother if Guardians of the Galaxy was the same exact movie, but Zoe Saldana's name appeared before Pratt's?
Also, we do have to remember that Marvel is writing a story across multiple films. This is why Guardians is a movie, it's a bridge to Thanos and more Infinity Gems. There may not be room in their schedule for Carol and Pather, as they don't fit in the overall narrative. This isn't the best excuse, but it does explain why these may not have received movies as of yet.
With the success of Guardians, and Avengers 3 soon, I'd say these characters will appear in the near future.
GotG didn't bother me. I was fine with that movie, and I understand why it was made. The Gamora role could've been better, but whatever, it was fine.
The "doesn't fit the narrative" argument is an excuse. They came up with the narrative. They chose the narrative. They chose to have that narrative be completely and totally devoid of female and minority leads.
Maybe the characters will appear. But I refuse to give Marvel the benefit of the doubt on this. I refuse to just sit back and say, "Oh, well, they want to do these movies, so I'm sure they'll get around to them at some point."
Again, the MCU has only been around for six years. They have established the brand. Again, the general audience would not have seen a Black Widow movie before the Avengers. ScarJo was not an action star draw before the Avengers. Now she has three movies in the universe under her belt. She'll have a movie. The MCU cannot start with Captain Marvel because no one knows or cares who she is. It wouldn't have worked.
Sure, sure, Iron Man was unproven before his movie too, though he was a bigger character than Carol at the time. A good lead and a good director, anything is possible.
We have a movie in 2017 that we do not know yet. There are 3 in 2018. One of those is Thor 3. We have 3 movies that we do not know what they are. I would guess that at least one of those will be female or minority.
Don't take this the wrong way but the funny thing about your post Tiamatty is that you are trying to come across as some champion for diversity over a message board but as of yet have done nothing to inspire or even start your own platform for actual change. Instead you say the same thing repeatedly in multiple threads , some having little to do with the actual subject matter, as if it makes a difference or plays a role some how in the overall process. While many of us do want more prominent minority characters heavily in the MCU films, I'm sure there are very few who wouldn't, as fans we have to consider several factors as to why this isn't happening. Most of your reasoning however sums up to the "because" logic, which not only hurts your overall message but it defeats your cause. A Ms. Marvel/black panther/diverse character can't just happen on a "because" they fit in this box or "because" they haven't used this character type before or "because" things should be fair and just. Sorry as much as I personally want that to be the case the world doesn't work that way. I understand that as a black man who lives in America and has lived in some of the most racist cities and states in this country.
At the end of the day only thing that matters to most people is two things " what can you do for me" and " what benefit can you bring to my pocket or overall goal" and the MCU is being run the very same way. Friege laid it out at the beginning so it's no surprise. Everything he said so far has come into formation so the "concern" isn't even warranted just yet.
Edit: I said this not be a major jerk but I frankly don't see what your point or goal is. Like I said before you haven't started group to "fight" for the evil non-diversifying producers, you haven't brought a reasonable argument based on solid numbers of profits to help the case and you really have net established why these movies should have been first verses when they are actually coming out. Instead you are simply repeating yourself over multiple threads.
Last edited by Trident; 09-02-2014 at 03:04 PM.
Maybe they couldn't have started with Carol, but we're not at the start any more, are we? Why is Dr. Strange getting a movie before Captain Marvel or Black Panther? Ant-Man was a passion project for Edgar Wright, so I'll give that one a pass, but Dr. Strange is just because they felt like doing a Dr. Strange movie, so they figured out a way to slot him in. But so far, so far as they've allowed anyone to see, they have not shown the same willingness to slot in a female or minority lead.
Until and unless they actually announce the movie, I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt on whether they'll make it. Until and unless they announce it, I just flat-out don't give a shit what they're making, and I'm not going to give them any more of my money.
Strange is getting a movie because of the Soul Gem, fitting in with the Gauntlet mega story that's been forming across all of the movies, and maybe to expand on the magic side of the universe depending on what Wanda brings to the table. Panther definitely deserves a movie for Wakanda and Necropolis and everything that brings. I'm sure Panther can have a gem too.
And I suppose it would've been totally impossible to have that gem in a different movie. Or to delay Dr. Strange a year, in order to do either Captain Marvel or Black Panther first.
They easily could've used an Infinity Stone in either of those. I'll even explain how: For Captain Marvel, the machine that gives her powers when it explodes is powered by the Reality Gem, and Yon-Rogg is given some control over it in the same explosion. Boom. For Black Panther, I guess they could go with the Mind Stone. There must be a way to tie it in somehow.
Instead, they felt it was absolutely vital to get the next white guy out there first.
First of all, how the hell did you get from a single thing I've said that I'd be against a Black Panther movie? And come on, they're not going to do a Shuri movie. If and when they do Black Panther, it's going to be T'Challa. He's got way more fans than Shuri. He's the one who's been in the TV shows and video games and on merchandise.
I'd be fine with Shuri being the Black Panther, but there's a lot of T'Challa fans who would be pissed. It's not going to happen.